Anyone else want a Higher Touring Gear?

[Peter Aawen]

Not necessarily. Every engine has a torque vs rpm curve. If you load the engine down heavier at a specific speed than what it is designed for you make it work harder, cutting down its mpg. I'm sure the Rotax is designed for most efficient torque in the 4000 to 5000 RPM range, or thereabouts, hence the gears are set to provided the optimum torque vs vehicle speed for each gear. You can't just tack on an extra gear to lower the engine speed as you may drop it below its optimum torque range. Keep in mind the required torque to overcome road and wind resistance and maintain speed increases as vehicle speed increases.

There is definitely a designed 'sweet spot' or more correctly, a 'sweet rev range' in the torque vs revs curve! Use your gears to stay in that rev range at your chosen road speed & you'll get the best from your motor, but drop out of it & it'll cost you! And that works/applies both ways too!! Let your revs get too low, & it won't be as efficient/economical as it could be; similarly, rev it too high, & once again, it won't be as efficient/economical as it could be!

I reckon this ideal band is between about 3,500 rpm & a bit over 4,500 rpm (maybe as high as 5,000 rpm?!?) for the 1330's, & IIRC, it was between about 4,000 & 5,500 for the stock 2010 - 2016 V-Twins, albeit a little different for the earlier versions. I don't recall the V-Twin numbers exactly, cos it's a fair bit different on my 'ECU Upgraded' 2013 V-Twin, but that's by choice & design, & courtesy of a very good tuner!

Speaking of that very good tuner, (Jase @ ECU Xtreme/Rotax Racing) the last time I discussed this 'swap the cogs' thing with him (which admittedly was some time back now ) IIRC he explained that it was fairly easy to do & had been done fairly often on the early V-twins; it was getting somewhat difficult on the newer V-twins but had been done a few times; and was so difficult due to all the 'hidden references' in the coding to things like Country Code & hard coded Model/Sprocket relationships that it had become an extremely laborious & time consuming thing to do & get right that it just wasn't worth it on the 1330's - in fact, I believe he said something along the lines of "there's 'expletive deleted' HUNDREDS of the 'expletive deleted' 'expletive deleted' bloody records in there that hafta be tracked down & changed individually or it'll eventually throw codes & dump the machine into limp mode or just shut it down!" And I reckon he also suggested that when it comes to the 1330 motors, he could improve things more than enough for most simply by upgrading the ECU to unleash some of its hidden potential without even going anywhere near its limits....

So that might be a more do-able & cost effective path for those of you looking for better cruising (or other performance changes/improvements) to go down instead of playing around with the drive cogs?! But if Jase isn't prepared to do anything more re swapping the drive cogs, then I seriously doubt that it's gonna be easy for anyone else to do successfully....

Just Sayin'

[ES44AC]

I'm with you on 7th gear. The RPM's are too high at 75-77 MPH.

I really try to stay off the Interstate highways, but sometimes you have to use them.

[Raven]

There is a thing of to tall of gearing.
You can cause problems by over gearing were you lose milage and performance and can damage the motor.
The specs on Spyders and F3's show the torque peak at 5000 rpm.
Most motors run their best at around the torque peak.

[EdMat]

How many times have you been cruising at 55 + in 6th gear and needed to pass something? Acceleration is painfully slow if you don't downshift. Heck, I've downshifted at 75 and 80 before. What would it feel like if you had a 7th gear? I think 6th is already overdrive.

Now if you mod the ECU things are a little different.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

There is a thing of to tall of gearing.
You can cause problems by over gearing were you lose milage and performance and can damage the motor.
The specs on Spyders and F3's show the torque peak at 5000 rpm.
Most motors run their best at around the torque peak.

This would only be possible with a MANUAL trans. ..... The SE won't let you LUG the engine. ....Mike

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

How many times have you been cruising at 55 + in 6th gear and needed to pass something? Acceleration is painfully slow if you don't downshift. Heck, I've downshifted at 75 and 80 before. What would it feel like if you had a 7th gear? I think 6th is already overdrive.

Now if you mod the ECU things are a little different.

100%

[Peter Aawen]

There is a thing of to tall of gearing.
You can cause problems by over gearing were you lose milage and performance and can damage the motor.
The specs on Spyders and F3's show the torque peak at 5000 rpm.
Most motors run their best at around the torque peak.

This would only be possible with a MANUAL trans. ..... The SE won't let you LUG the engine. ....Mike

What Raven mentions is also possible with the SE's Mike, cos you can allow (or make) your engine revs to drop lower than 'the most efficient' rev range for the engine/trans/road speed without letting the revs drop so low as to trigger the automated 'fail-safe' gear change.

Sure, it won't let you 'LUG' the engine per-se, but that 'fail-safe' downshift isn't there to keep the engine & trans working together in their most efficient way; as you note/infer with the 'LUG' comment, it's really there to stop things from being overly stressed &/or damaged thru letting the revs drop too low for their continued mechanically safe operation, hence it's not allowing 'lugging', but it can & will allow a fair degree of inefficiency that can mess up your fuel economy & might not be all that great for things mechanical over time!

[Pirate]

This has been an issue with Goldwing for years until 2018 when they redesigned it.

That extra gear would be nice, but the Engineers that design both the Spyder... know what they are doing apparently.

*Cough: Front sprocket *Cough

[PMK]

Full respect for the folks that truly understand the vehicle computers, how to reliably make changes, and offer a good product, albeit expensive.

Based on Peters reply about his supplier of modified computers, Can Am and their vendors have interfaced engine parameters of more than simply rpm against chassis parameters. Doing this complicates pretty much many changes, with the exception of a taller, within reason, rear tire.

It would be pretty cool though if an aftermarket company offered a reliable replacement front pulley, not prone to spline wear and added 1 tooth, that worked well with the oem computer settings.

[Raven]

I am the first to admit that I don't know a lot about Spyders.
What RPM are they pulling in sixth gear at 75 MPH.
If it's under 5000RPM I don't think it is a problem.

[troop]

I am the first to admit that I don't know a lot about Spyders.
What RPM are they pulling in sixth gear at 75 MPH.
If it's under 5000RPM I don't think it is a problem.

1330cc Spyders with 79t rear pulleys are pulling well under 5000rpm at 75 mph. My 89t rear pulley F3S turns around 4600rpm at 80mph.

[molive1960]

Thanks for the discussion everyone. My 2020 RTL is right in line with everyone else's at about 4000 RPM at 75mph and 4400 at 80 riding 2 up. It has plenty of power at those rpm's, naturally. I just think an additional higher gear would allow for lower rpm's with plenty of power left and the engine noise and vibration would be easier on the bike and me. Additional gas mileage at that speed would be nice. Here in Oklahoma we have lots of turnpikes with 80mph limits and you gotta be able to consistently do 85 to keep up with traffic. That's not a problem but it sure seems to be running the bike hard. I stay on the lesser traveled 2 lanes usually for a more enjoyable trip but there are times you just have to get somewhere.

[vito1943]

Some want a higher gear because of the sound of an engine at higher RPM. I recall when I had a Triumph America, which had 5 gears, the engine revs would be high and the noise commensurate with that high rpm at highway speeds. That made it sound like the engine was working harder than it was comfortable to do, and I felt like I was working harder (which makes no rational sense) and in fact seemed to tire more easily at those speeds. I felt the same way with my 5 speed Goldwing when that was my primary ride, but after awhile I became used to the sound and feel at higher speeds and I no longer found myself wishing for a 6th gear. On the Spyder, as I stated in an earlier post, I find the gearing to be fine, and have ridden at 80+ for extended periods without any problem or discomfort or excessive drop in mpg.

[Quickdraw]

Not sure they need to add another gear as much as I think they need to figure out how to get the RPM's down per gear. At 45 mph, I'm borderline going from 4th to 5th. The bike sounds good when it runs no more than 2800 rpms.

[ThreeWheels]

Has anyone heard if Can Am has considered adding a 7th gear to the RT series. I am on my second RT and my only real complaint is that it needs an additional higher gear for our U.S. highways. This would provide much better gas mileage and be easier on the engine when having to travel our 75mph plus highway system.

When I had my 2010 RTS with the 998 VTwin, I had the 5 speed manual. Everyone wanted a 6th gear back then.
Now, with the 1330 triple I have a 6th gear, and there's talk of a 7th gear.
I think I understand what people want, but I'm not sure the 1330 has enough HP to sustain a 7th gear.
Perhaps if the engine were bigger, or if it had more horsepower?
The engineer in me says pushing that big front end through the air requires energy, and that energy comes from burning fuel.
The faster you go, the more energy you need. The more energy you need, the more fuel you burn.
If you want to run at lower RPM, you need a bigger engine, and that will burn more gas.
Or you run a smaller engine at higher RPM, and you burn more gas.
Either way, going faster burns more gas.
Unless maybe BRP complicates the design by adding turbochargers, or perhaps a hybrid design?

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, and I'm sure the many denizens of this forum will be happy to let me know if I am.

[Jane1330]

You can get a small amount of relief by going to a taller tire (bigger aspect). On my 2014 RTL I changed to a 215/60R15 and it would cruise about 3MPH faster at the same RPM than the OEM tire did. It also brought my speedo in line with my GPS indicated speed

X2!!!!