Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default 2018 F3L stalling while driving - any ideas on why?

    Input, please? I also have query in with BRP, but they have been hacked recently and neither shop, nor I, am getting response from them.

    Bike is in shop now - 2nd time. Occurrences of problem (for me) – 4X total, 3 rides within 10 days, happened on each ride, and with using each one of my 2 Spyder keys. Shop cannot seem to duplicate.

    Problem definition: Bike will not manually downshift, NOR will it auto downshift. Begins shaking slightly as if stalling out while still in 4th or 5th gear when bike should just be slowing down / downshifting. Orange exclamation point ! (Vehicle Malfunction) appears on lower left corner of Display and the last gear the bike was in prior to stalling still appears on Display. The gray banner, Transmission Fault also flashed quickly on Display for 2 of the 4 total fault occurrences.

    This happened when I was traveling in higher gears, approx. RPM at 3800-4000+, either in 4th, 5th or 6th gear. Traffic slows and/or coming to a stop sign, try to manual downshift (if feasible) and/or allow bike to auto downshift to full stop. Bike basically stalls out while driving!

    **What I do to clear error – so far:
    Pull off road, turn bike off, wait a few minutes, remove / reinsert key. Sometimes had to do the re-start procedure 2-3 times before display error clears. ONLY if Display error is cleared do I have power on the engine. Sometimes can start bike with error still in display but have NO POWER from throttle to engine.

    FYI: data
    I personally cleaned out my grill (interior / exterior) and radiator of debri.
    Had normal, scheduled maintenance done “on time”: oil change / brake fluid flush. Shop pulled inactive codes as shown, but could not duplicate problem in a couple of alleged attempts to ride bike. Shift issue happened for me both BEFORE and AFTER oil change / brake fluid flush.

    8 codes pulled (none are active, per shop)
    B2B02 – cannot find code for Spyder
    U3001 – cannot find code for Spyder
    ECM: P0513 Incorrect Immobilizer Key / Invalid Access Key Detected
    P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio
    ECM: P2530 Ignition switch state not plausible
    TCM: U0259 Lost communication with SWM
    TCM: U0100 Lost communication with ECM
    TCM: U0122 Lost communication with VCM

  2. #2
    Very Active Member CopperSpyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Waynesboro, PA
    Posts
    3,179
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Wow Alot of codes. Hopefully someone can track this down.
    Last edited by CopperSpyder; 08-18-2022 at 06:15 PM.
    My Spyder
    2012 RTL , Brown

  3. #3
    Very Active Member Woodaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Salisbury,NC
    Posts
    789
    Spyder Garage
    2

    Default

    #1 possible problem - left hand handgrip module. #2 possible problem - battery terminals tight? Battery need load tested? Battery can cause alot of errors. #3 possible problem - is the oil level correct? Follow procedure in manual. If dealerships don't use certified tech's, they can overfill
    2015 Spyder RT Ltd- bUrp - only add the "U", 2010 Honda NT700V-red,2010 Honda NT700V-silver retired @201,111 miles, 1997 Honda PC800, 1996 Honda PC800, Honda CT500, Honda Shadow 500, 1978 Suzuki GS550, 1973 Suzuki TC125, other assorted smaller bikes, Suzuki TM400



  4. #4
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Lake Sam Rayburn Texas
    Posts
    49
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Problem sounds similar to a problem I had one time.

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ission-message

    Apparently I don't know how to copy and paste posts. My post was on 06-26-22. My Spyder stayed in fourth gear and would not shift up or down, but worked OK when it cooled down.

  5. #5
    Very Active Member gkamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Ritzville, Wa
    Posts
    2,163
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    The left hand multi function switch is a known problem on the 2018 F3 and RT’s. I’m getting mine replaced next Saturday. My problem with it involved not being able to manually down shift, not being able to shift into Reverse or manually shift into Neutral.
    Greg Kamer
    "It's better to be not riding and wishing you were than be riding and wishing you weren't."

    USAF, 20 years, retired
    Sheriff's Office, 23 years, retired



    2018 Can Am Spyder RT-Limited

  6. #6
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Shop told me that all codes are inactive, allegedly meaning that they occurred, but are not ongoing...yet I stall in traffic "ongoing"....

    But did it "auto" downshift when slowing / coming to a stop? without stalling and having the orange ! exclamation point?
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2023 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts - no need for 2....

  7. #7
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Lake Sam Rayburn Texas
    Posts
    49
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    When I had a similar problem with my 2015 F3-S, it did not downshift when coming to a stop, but stayed in fourth gear and ran at a higher rpm like the throttle was stuck until I turned the key off.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    754
    Spyder Garage
    2

    Default

    could be a bad shifter solonoid. It can be easiy viewed near the left floorboard. Check for obvious damage.
    2021 Sea to Sky RT , Highland green

  9. #9
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    In shop 1.5 hours away from me. I will be chatting with them next week. .

  10. #10
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Lake Sam Rayburn Texas
    Posts
    49
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Please keep us informed about what caused your problem. I am especially interested since I had a similar problem even though mine only occurred once. Thanks.

  11. #11
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Hampton Roads, VA
    Posts
    436
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    On mine was the gearbox position sensor behind the front pully. It's a cheaply made potentiometer that sends 0V to 5V to the TCM to verify what gear it's in. $120 off EBay.

  12. #12
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevencovert View Post
    On mine was the gearbox position sensor behind the front pully. It's a cheaply made potentiometer that sends 0V to 5V to the TCM to verify what gear it's in. $120 off EBay.
    Thank you for that input.

  13. #13
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    136
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Here's my 2 cents (perhaps worth less).
    I think everyone so far has been focusing on the symptom and not the cause. Yes, the left side switch assembly is a pattern failure but it may not be the cause of the issue.
    I believe your primary issue is the P2530 stored in the ECM. I ran into this issue with my own 2018 F3S. Took it to the dealer to be told the code had "occurred" and there was nothing wrong. I had a long and heated discussion with the service manager and educated him on the fact that the code had "occurred" BECAUSE something was wrong. Eventually he agreed to contact BRP (why is this always a battle) and BRP informed him of a TSB (he should have seen anyway) to replace the right side switch assembly. Yes, the one with the red rocker switch on it, for a highly intermittent internal resistance problem causing the ECM to see an implausible input and set the P2530. They replace under warranty and all was well.
    To your situation....
    I've been a senior master GM diagnostic tech for 32 years now (actually teaching dealer techs at the present) and, part of that job involves detective work, backtracking thru the evidence to the original failure. The key is the "U" codes set. They are loss of communication codes set to indicate modules can't communicate as expected.
    Here's what I think happened.
    The P2530 set because of the kill switch fault (documented in the TSB)
    Several modules went off-line because the power mode switched (incorrectly because of the faulty switch).
    The bike then stalled because of that incorrect power mode OR because a necessary module went off line (note-the TCM set a loss of comm against the ECM).
    The P0730 set when the ECM came back because the bike wasn't running and the ECM saw the incorrect gear position for zero RPM and whatever speed you were going.
    I'm betting all of this would be solved with the replacement of the red button kill switch. Either way, its faulty per the TSB and needs to be replaced anyway.
    2018 F3S , Black

  14. #14
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frj322 View Post
    Here's my 2 cents (perhaps worth less).
    I think everyone so far has been focusing on the symptom and not the cause. Yes, the left side switch assembly is a pattern failure but it may not be the cause of the issue.
    I believe your primary issue is the P2530 stored in the ECM. I ran into this issue with my own 2018 F3S. Took it to the dealer to be told the code had "occurred" and there was nothing wrong. I had a long and heated discussion with the service manager and educated him on the fact that the code had "occurred" BECAUSE something was wrong. Eventually he agreed to contact BRP (why is this always a battle) and BRP informed him of a TSB (he should have seen anyway) to replace the right side switch assembly. Yes, the one with the red rocker switch on it, for a highly intermittent internal resistance problem causing the ECM to see an implausible input and set the P2530. They replace under warranty and all was well.
    To your situation....
    I've been a senior master GM diagnostic tech for 32 years now (actually teaching dealer techs at the present) and, part of that job involves detective work, backtracking thru the evidence to the original failure. The key is the "U" codes set. They are loss of communication codes set to indicate modules can't communicate as expected.
    Here's what I think happened.
    The P2530 set because of the kill switch fault (documented in the TSB)
    Several modules went off-line because the power mode switched (incorrectly because of the faulty switch).
    The bike then stalled because of that incorrect power mode OR because a necessary module went off line (note-the TCM set a loss of comm against the ECM).
    The P0730 set when the ECM came back because the bike wasn't running and the ECM saw the incorrect gear position for zero RPM and whatever speed you were going.
    I'm betting all of this would be solved with the replacement of the red button kill switch. Either way, its faulty per the TSB and needs to be replaced anyway.
    Thank you. I was unaware of a TSB involving the kill switch side. I read both of the TSBs to include the left hand multifunction switch. I did bring up to the service dept. that 3 of my errors were due to TCM losing communications with other modules. I guess they are waiting for CanAm to get back to business (after the recent hack) and this will happen for them on 9/11/22 - per what I hear from the service dept.

  15. #15
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Update (so far): was told by dealer that BRP told them to reprogram my VCM and HCM modules. Ok. So now I am to assume all is well. Will p/u bike next week most likely and test ride it.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,645
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I be looking around for bad connections or chafing on the harness someplace. Reprogramming the modules sounds like they're reaching for the stars.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-24-2022 at 06:53 PM. Reason: there - they're ;-)

  17. #17
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    I be looking around for bad connections or chafing on the harness someplace. Reprogramming the modules sounds like they're reaching for the stars.
    Maybe so. I have an email into BRP about what could cause this to need to be done.... anyways, I am happy that my bike is working so far! It seems to have been fixed for now. But I wonder if VCM/HCM (electronic modules) are covered under warranty in this case... I ended up paying $190 for "diagnostics" that I should not have to pay if it's under warranty.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-24-2022 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Fixed quote display

  18. #18
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SeniorRider View Post
    Please keep us informed about what caused your problem. I am especially interested since I had a similar problem even though mine only occurred once. Thanks.
    The fix that seems to work still is this: BRP told dealer to "reprogram"? / update? the VCM and to clean the HCM. I do not know why HCM needed cleaned as I maintain the bike per scheduled maintenance and I use proper oil. Other than that, no one can tell me WHY exactly or WHAT exactly was the "identified problem".

  19. #19
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Preface: My bike is maintained on schedule, and dealer did my last oil change.

    Stalled while riding...It happened again on 5/5/23 when I picked up my bike after having the sprocket replaced (recall). Had to pull off road then return to dealer with SAME PROBLEM that they allege they fixed prior. I personally believe I need a NEW module of some kind - TCM, VCM or HCM. THIS time, I refused to play with them - see if problem happens again - and told them they MUST contact BRP and use my BEST warranty (which they did not try to use prior). This is the 5th time I could have been killed riding this hunk of plastic...Because I no longer TRUST my bike, I cannot go on a trip, cannot ride for Road Warriors, cannot ride with my groups - cannot ride my bike without taking a chance on bike stalling, and my death on a busy highway after being rear ended at 65 mph. I turned Can AM into the NHTSB after the 1st 4 stalls....I guess I need to report them again.

  20. #20
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Descanso, CA
    Posts
    983
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    GWHIZZ -- I sympathize with your loss of riding joy due to well-deserved loss of confidence in your Spyder. It's why I dumped my Moto Guzzis.

    Tell us a bit more about the circumstances. It seems the stalling only occurs when you are riding at highway speeds with the occasional stop-and-go -- is this correct? You described some shaking on slowing. Is power suddenly off or is there a slacking off where power drops off quickly? I'm not clear how you get the Spyder running again -- could you provide more details on this process although it doesn't seem be be consistent from stall to stall. And could you also tell us if the Orange warnings always appear and any other console readings such as coolant temperature. I realize this is a bit of a challenge as you are trying so save life and limb in traffic but any additional details will be helpful. Especially riding history before this issue manifested.

    I know you have dealer service but would you please check the coolant level with a bright flashlight.

    Three specific questions:

    1. What is the odometer reading?
    2. What is the make and age of your battery (SC can get very hot and affect battery lifetime)
    3. What accessories have been installed and what modifications have been made?
    2014 Can-Am Spyder RT-S SE6 Freeway Commuter Pod
    2016 Royal Enfield Classic 500 Fair-Weather Mountain Bike

  21. #21
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Hi, Bert Remington.

    Specific answers:
    1. Odo last reading estimated (bike in shop now): 14,600
    2. Battery 2018: Powersports Lithium Ion MMG-6 – Quad terminals
    3. No electrical mods. Floorboards, short reach handlebars / risers, bump skid, WOLO horn, Baker air wings, cat delete pipe, teardrop handlebar mirrors, OEM windshield extension. The horn was put on in 2021.

    When riding in (typically) higher gears (like 4-5-6), rpms around 3600-4300, I first get the banner Transmission fault and know what to expect after that...better pull off the road safely before no speed at all. I don't put on the brakes as I need to roll the bike somewhere safe as I cannot shift manually or via brake, and have no power...machine will shake as it dies, and I am done. Display shows last gear bike was in prior to the stall, with the exclamation point!

    To clear this, I simply act as if it never happened and turn the bike off, then restart the bike. Sometimes I had to do this more than once to clear the display, last time I did it 2X and bike started again. Because I was on a hill this last time, it also would not shift from neutral until it rolled to flat ground. I personally believe it to be a gear sensor or a bad module. All the codes thrown me in 2022 depicted a loss of communication between 3 modules among other codes.
    Last edited by GWHIZZ; 05-09-2023 at 01:54 PM.

  22. #22
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central VERMONT
    Posts
    20,268
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GWHIZZ View Post
    Preface: My bike is maintained on schedule, and dealer did my last oil change.

    Stalled while riding...It happened again on 5/5/23 when I picked up my bike after having the sprocket replaced (recall). Had to pull off road then return to dealer with SAME PROBLEM that they allege they fixed prior. I personally believe I need a NEW module of some kind - TCM, VCM or HCM. THIS time, I refused to play with them - see if problem happens again - and told them they MUST contact BRP and use my BEST warranty (which they did not try to use prior). This is the 5th time I could have been killed riding this hunk of plastic...Because I no longer TRUST my bike, I cannot go on a trip, cannot ride for Road Warriors, cannot ride with my groups - cannot ride my bike without taking a chance on bike stalling, and my death on a busy highway after being rear ended at 65 mph. I turned Can AM into the NHTSB after the 1st 4 stalls....I guess I need to report them again.
    IMHO your #-1 problem are / is the Tech who is trying to figure out HOW to fix your Spyder ( this is not uncommon for Spyder techs ) ..... try and find another Tech ..... good luck ... Mike

  23. #23
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Descanso, CA
    Posts
    983
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    GWHIZZ -- I was kinda hoping maybe overheating due to low coolant but the ungraceful nature of your shutdown and the codes you described really point to a CANBUS problem. Since the left-hand switch module is a critical node I suggest you follow gkamer's path and look at these posts

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1617908

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1617866

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1617863
    2014 Can-Am Spyder RT-S SE6 Freeway Commuter Pod
    2016 Royal Enfield Classic 500 Fair-Weather Mountain Bike

  24. #24
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blueknight911 View Post
    imho your #-1 problem are / is the tech who is trying to figure out how to fix your spyder ( this is not uncommon for spyder techs ) ..... Try and find another tech ..... Good luck ... Mike
    i agree!!!!!

  25. #25
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    55
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BertRemington View Post
    GWHIZZ -- I was kinda hoping maybe overheating due to low coolant but the ungraceful nature of your shutdown and the codes you described really point to a CANBUS problem. Since the left-hand switch module is a critical node I suggest you follow gkamer's path and look at these posts

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1617908

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1617866

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...=1#post1617863
    I say that the last tech did not know what really to do as it was a bad timeframe - when BRP was hacked and shutdown. They have opened a proper case with BRP this time and hopefully this will come up, as well as possible gear box sensor and any other issue. Thanks.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •