My brake wear history

[PMK]

My EBC HH pads have made that same "wurring" sound from day one. Can't really say I notice any dramatic changes in braking. I swapped out with only about 5K miles on my OEM pads..

Did you ever resolve or attempt to resolve the wurring noise? Before others chime in stating to use pad anti squeal coating, this is not brake squeal. When you apply the brakes, it makes a sound like the letter ZZZZZZZZZZ. Most likely the friction material passing by the drilled venting holes in the oem Brembo brake discs. I forget if I beveled the pad edge or not on the EBC stuff. However I kind of expect brake pads to be plug and play other than a quick spray of brakleener. Oh well.

Not sure on how the Brembo vs EBC wear will compare. I had plenty of friction material left on my oem Brembo pads, but a caliper leaked and contaminated the brake material. I did try washing the brake pad clean, but in the interest of safety installed new after testing the cleaned brake pad. I very possibly could have burnt off the DOT 4, but typical me, I do not run regular DOT 4 fluid and with a much higher spec, the heat from the MAPP torch could damage the brake pad. So they were changed.

I did find, and confirmed this with a long time Spyder rider and tech, that the oem Brembos tend to have a stronger initial bite under braking. Whereas the EBC, has less initial bite, but they both stop well.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Yes, as I suspected, you removed the brake caliper, then removed the pad from the caliper so the rears could be measured. If checking the fronts by this same method, the brake pads can be slipped out of the caliper after gaining access of removing the wheel and retaining pins.

Using the digital caliper or similar measuring device, is the correct method, unless the brake is equipped with visual wear indicators, or audible wear indicators, to very accurately do as you have done to verify actual wear.

Typically though, folks will order new brake parts and while accomplishing this measurement or visual check, “just go ahead” and install new parts since it is already apart. With that they do surrender full life of the brakes.

The credit card or thickness gage method does not require any disassembly in most cases. It does however require that when checking, the brakes are clamping the disc to get a reasonably accurate measurement.the thickness gage method can be very accurate when done correctly, the credit card method, might allow a person to wear the brakes slightly more than published specs.

Two entirely different methods, both can work. Add to this, often a simple visual inspection, even if using an inspection mirror and flashlight, with a trained eye to know just what thickness remaining is needed works well too for a quick check, but certainly not best to obtain 100% brake wear.

Rather than doing the math and subtraction method you stated, next time you might consider to measure the thickness of the clean brake pad backing plate, and while measuring hit the “zero” button. Next measure the entire brake pad thickness. This gives a direct measurement of actual pad friction material remaining.

No I measure the Pad and backing plate while it is installed .... IF you went to harbor freight you would see what tool I'm using, it is inexpensive - so it's very basic ( but still accurate) .... measuring the PAD alone would be extremely difficult, the Math even for someone like me isn't..... I've seen a DIAL caliper measuring device .... that's not what I use ..... Mike

[PMK]

No I measure the Pad and backing plate while it is installed .... IF you went to harbor freight you would see what tool I'm using, it is inexpensive - so it's very basic ( but still accurate) .... measuring the PAD alone would be extremely difficult, the Math even for someone like me isn't..... I've seen a DIAL caliper measuring device .... that's not what I use ..... Mike

Well Mike, regarding the as you stated in post #6, you use a digital caliper tool. You also stated it looks like an adjustable wrench. With that said, I believed you were referencing a digital dial caliper. I have several of them from Harbor Freight.

Having utilized these tools for decades, it sounds cumbersome as a method to measure brake pad wear unless the actual brake pad is removed. In order for the actual remaining brake friction material thickness to be measured while assembled, the brake pedal MUST be depressed or in the case of rears, the parking brake must be activated.

When the brakes are disassembled, measuring accurately is a simple task. Unfortunately, I remain unable to visualize how you position the caliper tool in order to get an accurate dimension at the brake pads leading and trailing edge. A photo certainly would be that truthful 1000 words per image.

Regardless, very well it seems to work in your setup. Myself, I guess being old school will simply remove the brakes when visually worn, and measure them on the bench. Thanks, will be a great topic if you could post a photo.

[PMK]

No I measure the Pad and backing plate while it is installed .... IF you went to harbor freight you would see what tool I'm using, it is inexpensive - so it's very basic ( but still accurate) .... measuring the PAD alone would be extremely difficult, the Math even for someone like me isn't..... I've seen a DIAL caliper measuring device .... that's not what I use ..... Mike

For giggles, I did a quick search using the words you posted describing the tool.

Is this what you are referring too? If so I have at least three. Decent tool at an expendable price point.

Sure would like to see how you get that tool positioned for an accurate reading.

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...per-63711.html

[2dogs]

For giggles, I did a quick search using the words you posted describing the tool.

Is this what you are referring too? If so I have at least three. Decent tool at an expendable price point.

Sure would like to see how you get that tool positioned for an accurate reading.

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...per-63711.html

PMK, I'm glad you ask for some clarity. I'm a bit confused too. I know Mike is a very knowledgable guy and does good work but in my mind's eye, I'm asking the same questions you are. How and where do you get that thing in there? LOL

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

For giggles, I did a quick search using the words you posted describing the tool.

Is this what you are referring too? If so I have at least three. Decent tool at an expendable price point.

Sure would like to see how you get that tool positioned for an accurate reading.

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...per-63711.html

Yep that's EXACTLY what I use .... only I bought the cheap Composit one ..... PS, I read the Harbor Freight description and nowhere was the DIAL used .... I'm surprised you found it. ..... PPS the caliper assembly MUST be un-bolted and taken off the bracket to do this ..... have fun .... Mike

[PMK]

Yep that's EXACTLY what I use .... only I bought the cheap Composit one ..... PS, I read the Harbor Freight description and nowhere was the DIAL used .... I'm surprised you found it. ..... PPS the caliper assembly MUST be un-bolted and taken off the bracket to do this ..... have fun .... Mike

Well, that does explain more now that you stated to do this dimensional check, you are disassembling the caliper from the brake anchor plate.

As for , not to rub salt in a wound, I buy the one I linked, the digital one that easily does the math, when on sale minus 25%, so about $7.50 per tool for the stainless steel, not plastic, with digital setup. I often buy several at that time. My dial type, non digital style, have a couple of reinforced plastic type, and a Starret. While not needing a battery, they still work well when used in the correct application.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, most folks if they disassemble the brakes, unless a lot of friction material remains on the backing plate, they just change them, even if not worn 100%. They just prefer not to take it apart again.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well, that does explain more now that you stated to do this dimensional check, you are disassembling the caliper from the brake anchor plate.

As for , not to rub salt in a wound, I buy the one I linked, the digital one that easily does the math, when on sale minus 25%, so about $7.50 per tool for the stainless steel, not plastic, with digital setup. I often buy several at that time. My dial type, non digital style, have a couple of reinforced plastic type, and a Starret. While not needing a battery, they still work well when used in the correct application.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, most folks if they disassemble the brakes, unless a lot of friction material remains on the backing plate, they just change them, even if not worn 100%. They just prefer not to take it apart again.

Go back and read my post #24 ...... you need not apologize ...... PS I'm done with this thread ...... Mike

[PMK]

Go back and read my post #24 ...... you need not apologize ...... PS I'm done with this thread ...... Mike

Mike, entirely your choice on being done with this topic. As you may have read, 2Dogs was following your words the same as I interpreted them.

Both of us, and maybe others, based on your posts, got the impression you had a technique that allowed accurately measuring remaining brake pad friction material remaining, without disassembly.
Now with it clarified that you are removing the rear brake caliper from the brake anchor plate, and then, are able to get the measuring caliper positioned adequately for measuring, your method becomes more clear.

You should not be upset on account of a lack of understanding by us. Clarity of written words, often times for many folks is clear to the writer, but can be confusing to the reader. Not that it is not understood per say, rather understood differently.

[2dogs]

I got it now. Thanks BK & PMK. The end.

[UtahPete]

Mike, do you think the EBC pads / rotors would provide sufficient additional braking power to counter the additional 500 lbs we are towing & carrying when we go camping with our Lees-Ure Lite? Or, should I be looking at getting a brake kit for the trailer? Or both?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike, do you think the EBC pads / rotors would provide sufficient additional braking power to counter the additional 500 lbs we are towing & carrying when we go camping with our Lees-Ure Lite? Or, should I be looking at getting a brake kit for the trailer? Or both?

Wow 500 lbs. .... if you are in the mountains I think you are pushing the envelope at even 400 lbs. ... Our Spyders can pull that weight .... STOPPING is the issue ( as you realize ) .... There have been a few folks here who have successfully added brakes to their Trailer ...... and some who failed ..... Contact the people at " E-Brakes " and see what they think you would need. It might not be worth the expense ..... good luck with this and keep us informed ..... Mike

[UtahPete]

Wow 500 lbs. .... if you are in the mountains I think you are pushing the envelope at even 400 lbs. ... Our Spyders can pull that weight .... STOPPING is the issue ( as you realize ) .... There have been a few folks here who have successfully added brakes to their Trailer ...... and some who failed ..... Contact the people at " E-Brakes " and see what they think you would need. It might not be worth the expense ..... good luck with this and keep us informed ..... Mike

I'm not finding brake kits for the 9" trailer wheels unfortunately.

I'll start a new thread

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm not finding brake kits for the 9" trailer wheels unfortunately.

I'll start a new thread

Do you have BRP trailer ..... I don't think ...9 inch ... is a common size .... it might be possible to switch to a more common size ..... good luck ..... Mike

[2dogs]

I'm not finding brake kits for the 9" trailer wheels unfortunately.

I'll start a new thread

Pete, I researched trailer brakes for my Lees-Ure Lite and found etrailer.com had just about all the parts from backing plates to a wireless controller. It's very pricy to retrofit little trailers with electric brakes. But it's safer. We shouldn't be pulling over 400/500 lbs to be safe. Tongue weight 10 to 15%. I know a bunch of folks pull much more than that and I've seen the photos on this site of the results that have gone bad. Remember our trailer hitches attach directly to the axle. Most all others attach to the frame. Try some fake panic stops going downhill and see how it feels. Good luck.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Pete, I researched trailer brakes for my Lees-Ure Lite and found etrailer.com had just about all the parts from backing plates to a wireless controller. It's very pricy to retrofit little trailers with electric brakes. But it's safer. We shouldn't be pulling over 400/500 lbs to be safe. Tongue weight 10 to 15%. I know a bunch of folks pull much more than that and I've seen the photos on this site of the results that have gone bad. Remember our trailer hitches attach directly to the axle. Most all others attach to the frame. Try some fake panic stops going downhill and see how it feels. Good luck.

Thank you for your comments ..... what size wheel did you have ??? ..... Mike

[2dogs]

I have the 8" and I believe Pete is mistaken on the 9". I think he has 8" also. (Type-o?)

[UtahPete]

I have the 8" and I believe Pete is mistaken on the 9". I think he has 8" also. (Type-o?)

I think you are right. What size electric brake kit did you get that will fit?

[2dogs]

I think you are right. What size electric brake kit did you get that will fit?

I haven't purchased one yet. Always researching. Kinda waiting until I reach that weight threshold before deciding to install one. So far I haven't reached it yet. It isn't a kit. You have to buy the individual parts and assemble them yourself. I imagine some sharp entrepreneur will be coming out with a kit sooner or later. Parts are about a grand. There's definitely a calling for that sort of an item. Always thinking about safety for myself and my passenger. You might start a search with Lees-Ure Lite or Willy's R&R.

[UtahPete]

I haven't purchased one yet. Always researching. Kinda waiting until I reach that weight threshold before deciding to install one. So far I haven't reached it yet. It isn't a kit. You have to buy the individual parts and assemble them yourself. I imagine some sharp entrepreneur will be coming out with a kit sooner or later. Parts are about a grand. There's definitely a calling for that sort of an item. Always thinking about safety for myself and my passenger. You might start a search with Lees-Ure Lite or Willy's R&R.

So you're looking at replacing the backing plate, hub, etc and maybe going to larger wheels and tires because there's nothing that you've found will work on the 8" LL wheels?

PS let's shift this conversation over to my other thread https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...n-towing-Ideas

[shakin_jake]

If the rotor gets SCORED ( ie marks ) it's done, pro's can polish it , however I doubt you'll find anyone who still does this ....

~~~ain’t that the truth! I recall getting the rotors turned on my 68’ F-100 back in the 70’s, but after that, all the shops want to do anymore is replace, replace, replace! Nowadays they claim there isn’t enough material on the rotor to ‘get it back in spec’. I also recall reading in Consumer Reports, before buying our 96’ Clubwagon van (airporter) that the front brake calipers would need constant attention, and they were right! Planned Obsolescence at its finest

Anywho, hopefully I’ll get better service out of the OEM rotors on my 2021 RTL. And yes, i recall where Baja Ron claims EBC rotors for the Spyder are much better than what the factory installs

Not that anyone is interested but I have replaced OEM rotors on a few new bikes I’ve owned/ridden through the years, but generally, from memory, that was usually to go from non floating rotors to fully floating rotors


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

[Whiz11]

Sorry to hear that 75 is getting kinda 0ld, I am 76 and bought a 2019 F3T in Jan of 2020 and currently have 46,000 miles. Changed front brakes at approx 22,000 each time, and now preparing to replace my rear. I read a lot of your posts, I enjoy the info you provide. Hopefully I will continue to be able to ride, I really enjoy my personal time.... Thanks again Mike.

[bigbadbrucie]

give up riding due to age ( 75 yrs old now ). I have a 14 RT which I bought new ....... Hope this helps someone ...... Mike

Damn it Mike, now you’re making me feel old.....79 years plus 6 months. Are you implying that I’m past my prime riding years? I will admit that my rides have gotten shorter, but that is mostly because of the changes that we’re facing as the climate changes (more heat, more wild fires, more mudslides, more highways washing out), but I am still riding, mostly day trips.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Damn it Mike, now you’re making me feel old.....79 years plus 6 months. Are you implying that I’m past my prime riding years? I will admit that my rides have gotten shorter, but that is mostly because of the changes that we’re facing as the climate changes (more heat, more wild fires, more mudslides, more highways washing out), but I am still riding, mostly day trips.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I'm damn glad to hear it ..............Mike

[ulflyer]

Pete minimum pad thickness is 1mm. If you want to check them easily use the edge of a credit card.

Pegasus.....good info. Thanks. Was at my dealer last Friday for a brake fluid flush and anti-freeze flush and was told my pads were about 50/50. At 21K miles, I'll prob have some Ronbar pads put on next summer.