Power Steering Fuses

[Way2Fast]

I have had problems with my Spyder changing lanes without driver input and want to disconnect the power steering to see if that prevents this dangerous condition. The DPS in the Spyder is associated with two fuses. There is a F4 (5 amp) fuse under the front cover. This is the one that some members had suggested removing to disable the power steering or DPS. Under the rear seat there is a 40 amp fuse that is also related to the DPS. Do error codes appear when the vehicle is operated without either of these fuses ? I assume they would. I think the 40 Amp fuse is the one that powers the electric motor for the DPS. Probably just pulling the 5 amp wouldn't completely disconnect the power steering. Any info would be helpful.

[Smylinacha]

I'll let you know when we yank the fuse this weekend.

[nickcaro]

I pulled mine early in the game when I was around 7k miles with no codes and no issues.

BUT, around 68k miles my Spyder was flashed with one of the "updates" and in order for that to work the fuses had to be replaced at the dealer. (one of the "fixes" was related to the DPS) When I rode home, the first thing I did was remove them again.

Sadly, now after the update I do have an engine light and scrolling message about the DPS. There is no limp mode to come along with it, so I've just been rolling with the engine light on and the scrolling message. It's annoying to see it on the console, but for me its the lesser of the two evils.

My personal opinion; The DPS makes for a twitchy ride. I don't feel comfortable with it and I don't trust it. I had enough situations where it would either give me too much assistance or not as much as expected. By disabling it, I'm forced to use more strength at low speeds but its predictable and I'm never caught by surprise.

[Way2Fast]

Thanks for the info Nick. Which fuse did you pull, the 5 amp or the 40 amp ? or did you pull them both?

[nickcaro]

I pull both.

Not sure what effect the small one in the front does as I feel no difference until the large one in the rear is pulled.

[bjt]

I pull both.

Not sure what effect the small one in the front does as I feel no difference until the large one in the rear is pulled.

Did you ever try pulling just the rear fuse and leaving the front one in?

[Smylinacha]

So Nick, you're saying that this second update possibly had something in it that would make the message scroll because before you got the update, you had no problem. So they linked the 2nd update to something then.

But hey, at least the "unknown Surprise or caught off guard" feelings are gone, right?

And why both fuses?

[Magic Man]

Here's my take on the pulling of the fuses.

If ANYTHING goes wrong while the fuses are pulled you can bet it will be blamed on your "disabling of this safety system" that will be touted as the cause. Quite frankly they might be right and inasmuch this would cloud the whole "whio is responsiable" thing and put it back on you for sure.

However, if there is a problem running the system as BRP designed, updated, and sold the Spyder with, then it becomes their liability 100% if their system fails and causes you a problem.

Although taking the fuses out might seem like a good idea to some. With all that is going on about this topic right now, the last thing I would want to do is take the libility off BRP and put it back on myself by doing something like this.

IMHO, if you really are worried call your State DMV or the Highway Safety Board and file a complaint, but don't take the libility from BRP and put it on yourself.

MM

[NancysToy]

I agree with MM! I wouldn't pull the fuse except to try to limp home...and amybe not even then. For those that feel they must try, the 5 amp fuse is DPS control, the 40 amp fuse is the DPS motor. Beyond that it's a deep dark secret, i.e. sealed unit.

[Neez]

So, am I more afraid of the lawyers or of being steered into the path of an oncoming Kenworth? hmmm. I suppose a guy could pull the fuse, puposely burn it and stick it back in the socket, but then nanny would rat me out to BUDS, wouldn't she? Okay, okay, fugedabout it. Just the ravings of an old Luddite and electronophobe. Seriously, I wonder just how stable the basic reverse trike platform is. Is it like those steath fighter aircraft that would would be uncontrollable without computer guidance and multiple redundant backup circuits? Or could an experienced rider handle it safely without all the high tech aids? This is just an academic question , of course, I dont really expect BRP to chuck out all this gee-whiz solid state stuff. Meanwhile, I'll keep on ryding. I'm addicted to the darn thing. But no passengers until they get this steering issue properly sorted out.

[Way2Fast]

What MM is saying is 100% true, by removing the fuses I would be taking any liability off BRP's shoulders. But if disabling the DPS cures the "Bad Robot" steering issues, I could care less. I'd rather be safe and shoulder all the liability, than get injured or killed while keeping the option to sue. I wouldn't be able to enjoy any money awarded if I were dead or crippled.

However I'm not completely sure that the DPS is the only thing responsible for the steering reactions. I still think the Stability Control or VSS has a hand in it. If the computer applied the brakes on only one front wheel, the vehicle would pull to that side causing a sensation that is blamed on the DPS.

[nickcaro]

Here's my take on the pulling of the fuses.

If ANYTHING goes wrong while the fuses are pulled you can bet it will be blamed on your "disabling of this safety system" that will be touted as the cause.
MM

yup, so for anyone reading this, let it be clear that if you pull your fuses, you are doing it on your own. I'm not endorsing nor supporting, only sharing my experiences.

I can also share with you that I have signed off on blaming anyone. My lack of active DPS has been recognized at the dealer and documented to have been done by my own decision.

So Nick, you're saying that this second update possibly had something in it that would make the message scroll because before you got the update, you had no problem. So they linked the 2nd update to something then.

But hey, at least the "unknown Surprise or caught off guard" feelings are gone, right?

And why both fuses?

The update clearly enabled the scrolling message. I logged over 60k miles with both fuses removed before that update was applied and had no scrolling or engine lights.

It's a tough subject because it's one of those issues that is not 100% clear. For the most part the DPS works, I'm just not comfortable with those few times when it gives me an unexpected response. I gave it another go for about 5k miles after the update and I still don't trust it. So know I'm back to riding with it disabled by pulling the fuses.

I feel tremendously more stable on the road and I can prove it to myself because I ride the same roads, 5 days a week commuting. The DPS makes me twitchy and erratic entering and exiting curves. With it disabled I go in smooth and come out steady. The DPS also seems to react to pitch and yaw of the road in a manner that makes me uncomfortable.

When the pitch is altered, the DPS seems to interpret that info as steering input and then I fight myself fighting it to maintain my path.

I found a 1/4 mile or so stretch of road where this can be replicated. With the fuses pulled, I go straight through with no issues.
With the fuses in, I fight to keep myself straight and in my lane. So that was all I needed and now the fuses will continue to stay out.


if you're in the tri state area, this is it;
http://maps.google.com
I come south from the HH Bridge and merge with traffic coming of the GW.
That strip that is highlighted has a pitch that drops to the right lane. By going from the middle to the right, you feel it. This is where the DPS will consistently get involved when all I want to do is maintain my lane. Instead of maintaining a clean path on a very, very slight curve I have to fight it.
With the fuses pulled, I push through there with no effort at all.




<>

[smokster]

So basically, if you are on a trip and have an issue with the DPS. The solution to get home without issues is to pull these two fuses?

What is the ride like when they are pulled?

[NancysToy]

......Seriously, I wonder just how stable the basic reverse trike platform is. Is it like those steath fighter aircraft that would would be uncontrollable without computer guidance and multiple redundant backup circuits? Or could an experienced rider handle it safely without all the high tech aids?

From what I saw in the BRP safety video, this thing is a beast with no electronics at all. As to being without power steering, I think it would be far more tiring, and more difficult for the average rider to control, sans power. Depends a bit on how hard how fast, and where you usually ride.

......However I'm not completely sure that the DPS is the only thing responsible for the steering reactions.

[BillGargan]

What MM is saying is 100% true, by removing the fuses I would be taking any liability off BRP's shoulders. But if disabling the DPS cures the "Bad Robot" steering issues, I could care less. I'd rather be safe and shoulder all the liability, than get injured or killed while keeping the option to sue. I wouldn't be able to enjoy any money awarded if I were dead or crippled.

However I'm not completely sure that the DPS is the only thing responsible for the steering reactions. I still think the Stability Control or VSS has a hand in it. If the computer applied the brakes on only one front wheel, the vehicle would pull to that side causing a sensation that is blamed on the DPS.

It is not clear to me that you have given your Spyder a chance to behave after the updates.

You do what you want -- but, try again with the fuses in. Initially, try to ride in a "safe" area.

I betcha the update(s) have resolved you issues. If not, get a dealer to put it on a computer.

You are not safe the way you are proceeding . . .

[Firefly]

I don't think you have to pull the rear one---- I remember doing a test early this year and only pulled the front one to disable the DPS.

I'll try again to day as I'm going for a ride ......

[BRPjunkie]

I don't think you have to pull the rear one---- I remember doing a test early this year and only pulled the front one to disable the DPS.

I'll try again to day as I'm going for a ride ......

This will be an interesting test. The 5 amp fuse controls the DPS "brain" and the 40 amp fuse controls the DPS "muscle". If you kill the brain, do you kill the muscle?

[Smylinacha]

You got a good point there - never thought of it that way.

Here's my take on the pulling of the fuses.

If ANYTHING goes wrong while the fuses are pulled you can bet it will be blamed on your "disabling of this safety system" that will be touted as the cause. Quite frankly they might be right and inasmuch this would cloud the whole "whio is responsiable" thing and put it back on you for sure.

However, if there is a problem running the system as BRP designed, updated, and sold the Spyder with, then it becomes their liability 100% if their system fails and causes you a problem.

Although taking the fuses out might seem like a good idea to some. With all that is going on about this topic right now, the last thing I would want to do is take the libility off BRP and put it back on myself by doing something like this.

IMHO, if you really are worried call your State DMV or the Highway Safety Board and file a complaint, but don't take the libility from BRP and put it on yourself.

MM

[krb1945]

correct it definitely is not a good idea to pull the fuses. The only way I would consider pulling them is if we were on a trip and it developed a problem and then only long enough to get it in for a repair.

One of my 08s had the darting or lane change phenomenon issue before the update and I found even at my senior age I was always strong enough to correct it before it went too far across a lane.

But... I still cut fire wood with a chain saw and split 24 inch oak blocks with an axe.

[dryheat]

From what I saw in the BRP safety video, this thing is a beast with no electronics at all. As to being without power steering, I think it would be far more tiring, and more difficult for the average rider to control, sans power. Depends a bit on how hard how fast, and where you usually ride.

May not be that bad... remember initially, quite a few folks went months and months without DPS and didn't know it!
But then I haven't had either update done and probably won't. ("...if it ain't broke...") unless I have a problem.

[NancysToy]

May not be that bad... remember initially, quite a few folks went months and months without DPS and didn't know it!
But then I haven't had either update done and probably won't. ("...if it ain't broke...") unless I have a problem.

I think you could handle the beast without the DPS, but it would be a struggle to ride safely without any electronics at all, as was the original question.

[C3517C]

I've had nothing but steering probs ever since I got the first update. But here's a new twist. The last time I went out I was with a group of Spyder riders that included a mechanic from the dealership. My steering locked up and I had to "pop" it out of the locked position to stay on the road. (again) Everyone saw my bike shoot out of lane and we pulled over for a roadside assessment. The mechanic disabled the DPS by pulling the fuse, but that made the engine run very rough and stall. I don't know why. So instead of the fuse, he disconnected the power steering from somewhere else on the inside of the bike. Sorry to say I don't know exactly what he did, but the "check DPS" started scrolling across my screen.
I got back on the highway and yup, it happened again. Impossible you say , I would have said the same before I felt it myself. The only difference is that when I popped it out of the locked position, it didn't over correct as much because I didn't have the power sterring to help swing it over. Its now in the shop getting the entire DPS unit changed. This is the 3rd attempt to fix it.
Get those thinking caps on, this could be a clue. This was a unusual set of circumstances that may offer some insight.

[NancysToy]

I've had nothing but steering probs ever since I got the first update. But here's a new twist. The last time I went out I was with a group of Spyder riders that included a mechanic from the dealership. My steering locked up and I had to "pop" it out of the locked position to stay on the road. (again) Everyone saw my bike shoot out of lane and we pulled over for a roadside assessment. The mechanic disabled the DPS by pulling the fuse, but that made the engine run very rough and stall. I don't know why. So instead of the fuse, he disconnected the power steering from somewhere else on the inside of the bike. Sorry to say I don't know exactly what he did, but the "check DPS" started scrolling across my screen.
I got back on the highway and yup, it happened again. Impossible you say , I would have said the same before I felt it myself. The only difference is that when I popped it out of the locked position, it didn't over correct as much because I didn't have the power sterring to help swing it over. Its now in the shop getting the entire DPS unit changed. This is the 3rd attempt to fix it.
Get those thinking caps on, this could be a clue. This was a unusual set of circumstances that may offer some insight.

If the problem also occurred when the DPS was disabled, it may be a VCM problem. I think your VSS is acting up and causing directional changes or what is perceived as locking, and the power steering merely makes it worse...or doubles the fun. Problems like this can be caused by bad sensors elsewhere (like the GPS) sending noise along the CANBUS, or by corroded wiring or short circuits.

[Batmobile]

I had intermittant powersteering issues after the first update. I would get the periodic check dps scrolling and the loss of powersteering. As others have said a low speeds it requires quite a bit of effort to steer but at highway speeds you really can't tell a difference. I took it to my dealer and BRP had them replace the DPS unit. BRP's tech told my mechanic that one out of every four spyders that had the update were needing the DPS replaced. That was over a month ago. Maybe some of you are in the 25% like I was and need a new DPS. If the percentage stayed consistent and there are around 15,000 spyders out there, thats potentially 3,750 spyders with bad DPS's and 11,250 without problems. The odds are in your favor not to have a problem .

I haven't had the second update yet because I only need a couple hundred more miles to reach 6,000 so I was going to get it done with the service. I still have surging every once in a while but nothing like it was.

[Roaddog2]

Here's my take on the pulling of the fuses.

If ANYTHING goes wrong while the fuses are pulled you can bet it will be blamed on your "disabling of this safety system" that will be touted as the cause. Quite frankly they might be right and inasmuch this would cloud the whole "whio is responsiable" thing and put it back on you for sure.

However, if there is a problem running the system as BRP designed, updated, and sold the Spyder with, then it becomes their liability 100% if their system fails and causes you a problem.

Although taking the fuses out might seem like a good idea to some. With all that is going on about this topic right now, the last thing I would want to do is take the libility off BRP and put it back on myself by doing something like this.

IMHO, if you really are worried call your State DMV or the Highway Safety Board and file a complaint, but don't take the libility from BRP and put it on yourself.

MM

I just don't want to hit a tree a couple of hundred miles since update no steering issues.But my has always been real firm with stearing I feel it go on when almost still or turning stoped but once I'm moving it has always been real tight and have to work at it wich I kind of like