Power Steering Fuses

[Smylinacha]

Technology overload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe they just need to get rid of the VSS and make it like a "normal" bike - we control it, not the computers.

If the problem also occurred when the DPS was disabled, it may be a VCM problem. I think your VSS is acting up and causing directional changes or what is perceived as locking, and the power steering merely makes it worse...or doubles the fun. Problems like this can be caused by bad sensors elsewhere (like the GPS) sending noise along the CANBUS, or by corroded wiring or short circuits.

[Smylinacha]

I like that - I agree I agree I just don't wanna hit a tree!

I just don't want to hit a tree a couple of hundred miles since update no steering issues.But my has always been real firm with stearing I feel it go on when almost still or turning stoped but once I'm moving it has always been real tight and have to work at it wich I kind of like

[Latemarch]

When the pitch is altered, the DPS seems to interpret that info as steering input and then I fight myself fighting it to maintain my path.

Interesting.....In my daily commute I have one turn that consistantly gives me trouble unless I take it real, real slow.
It's a hard right hand to a steep uphill and the whole turn is off camber. Almost everytime I get a brief wiggle of the steering typically in the middle of the turn. I'm sure that the VSS probably has trouble interpreting those imputs . It's nothing dangerous but you can feel the bike "doing" something. I think that I'm going to have to try a ride into work without the DPS and see how it goes.
Though, all in all, I'm pretty pleased with how the machine handles in almost all other situations.

[krb1945]

that go to the sensors and control units shielded? Many years ago, during the 70s, the truck industry started using computerized brakes on the steering wheels. Prior to that era there were no brakes on the front wheels of semi trucks. They were not using shielded signal cables and they had a problem with electronic signals emanating from shopping center automatic doors and from CB radios. These signals would sometimes cause the brakes to lock up and other times the brakes would not work at all. There were some major traffic incidents, wrecks with fatalities, during that time that were traced to computer controlled brake failures due to outside interference.

Also you probably saw a computer controlled, fly by wire, Airbus A300 on the news that could not land or take off because of software programming... so it tried to fly through the forest... and it was successful for a short distance. This problem was traced directly to software programming.

If we keep informing the dealers and BRP exactly what occurred, when and where and under what conditions they will have enough data to trace it and repair the problem.

[NancysToy]

Interesting.....In my daily commute I have one turn that consistently gives me trouble unless I take it real, real slow.
It's a hard right hand to a steep uphill and the whole turn is off camber. Almost every time I get a brief wiggle of the steering typically in the middle of the turn. I'm sure that the VSS probably has trouble interpreting those inputs . It's nothing dangerous but you can feel the bike "doing" something. I think that I'm going to have to try a ride into work without the DPS and see how it goes.
Though, all in all, I'm pretty pleased with how the machine handles in almost all other situations.

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

[docdoru]

It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out.

Replacing my GPS cured the steering issues.

[jabba11]

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

I have a section of road daily that is like that too. It involves a steep hill with a high camber that wanders in th elane. The bike has a hard time trying to figure out what is happening. The bike subsequently wanders some on the road but with minor corrective input it stays well within my lane.

[Latemarch]

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

I agree that it's not a steering issue. Nick just noted that his corners were smoother without the DPS and so I just wondered if mine might not improve without it as well.
Since I have a turn that I can reproduce the issue I just figured I'd give it a try. It's got a long sightline and there's only occasionally traffic there so it shouldn't be too much risk. First it's going to have to stop raining as a lowered friction would surely throw another variable in that I don't need.
Besides I feel like it would be a good idea to drive it once without the DPS just in case I'm far from home and have the steering gremlin attack I can unplug and know what I'm in for while I'm on my way back to the dealer.

[Firefly]

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

Very interesting topic. I can't say that I've ever noticed this phenomenon. So can you reproduce it on a regular basis (not that you want to) ??

Where is the curve and what speed will cause this to happen?--- I would be interested to see if there is a difference between how our bikes react. I could go do a few runs of it and see if mine does it or not.

I've got twisties out near my house (not far from the zoo and golf course) that I hit pretty hard and don't have any problems --- but they might not have the camber that 'your' curve has on it.

I would have thought riding the dragon I would have seen every combination of curve and camber------- but I never had any problems while riding it.

[BRPjunkie]

Firefly,

Did you ever do the test run with just the 5 amp fuse pulled to see if "killing the DPS brain, kills the DPS muscle (motor)?

[Neez]

There is a paved farm backroad near to my home that has an extreme camber along it's whole length and a few tight turns. I used to enjoy this road with my 2 wheeled bikes, but the spyder does not seem to handle it well. As it happens, there is good visibility, due to the farm fields, and very little traffic, so I have been coping by staddling the hump. One front wheel in each lane is pretty dubious practice, I know, but the spyder is so twitchy here that it wears me out. I use 20 psi on the front tires and the shocks are set at max and, on most road surfaces, I have no problem. Mostly, I've been avoiding this road lately.

[NancysToy]

There is a paved farm backroad near to my home that has an extreme camber along it's whole length and a few tight turns. I used to enjoy this road with my 2 wheeled bikes, but the spyder does not seem to handle it well. As it happens, there is good visibility, due to the farm fields, and very little traffic, so I have been coping by staddling the hump. One front wheel in each lane is pretty dubious practice, I know, but the spyder is so twitchy here that it wears me out. I use 20 psi on the front tires and the shocks are set at max and, on most road surfaces, I have no problem. Mostly, I've been avoiding this road lately.

I think that is a quirk associated with the VSS. I'm not sure there is a good cure, other than learning to live with it...and being aware so you can handle the situation. Sensors that were bad or out of calibration could make the Spyder more reactive in this situation, or cause the effects ith less of a slope. Just my opinion...not supported by anything but the air in my head!

[RoadHammer]

Last time i checked my brain came prewired with antirollover technology.

Technology overload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe they just need to get rid of the VSS and make it like a "normal" bike - we control it, not the computers.

[3wheeldemon]

Last time i checked my brain came prewired with antirollover technology.

I was going to give you an but then remembered that I have laid down bikes three times in my life

3WD

[Yellow Spydeer]

[QUOTE=nickcaro;152331]yup, so for anyone reading this, let it be clear that if you pull your fuses, you are doing it on your own. I'm not endorsing nor supporting, only sharing my experiences.

I can also share with you that I have signed off on blaming anyone. My lack of active DPS has been recognized at the dealer and documented to have been done by my own decision.



The update clearly enabled the scrolling message. I logged over 60k miles with both fuses removed before that update was applied and had no scrolling or engine lights.

It's a tough subject because it's one of those issues that is not 100% clear. For the most part the DPS works, I'm just not comfortable with those few times when it gives me an unexpected response. I gave it another go for about 5k miles after the update and I still don't trust it. So know I'm back to riding with it disabled by pulling the fuses.

I feel tremendously more stable on the road and I can prove it to myself because I ride the same roads, 5 days a week commuting. The DPS makes me twitchy and erratic entering and exiting curves. With it disabled I go in smooth and come out steady. The DPS also seems to react to pitch and yaw of the road in a manner that makes me uncomfortable.

When the pitch is altered, the DPS seems to interpret that info as steering input and then I fight myself fighting it to maintain my path.


I found a 1/4 mile or so stretch of road where this can be replicated. With the fuses pulled, I go straight through with no issues.
With the fuses in, I fight to keep myself straight and in my lane. So that was all I needed and now the fuses will continue to stay out.



if you're in the tri state area, this is it;
http://maps.google.com
I come south from the HH Bridge and merge with traffic coming of the GW.
That strip that is highlighted has a pitch that drops to the right lane. By going from the middle to the right, you feel it. This is where the DPS will consistently get involved when all I want to do is maintain my lane. Instead of maintaining a clean path on a very, very slight curve I have to fight it.
With the fuses pulled, I push through there with no effort at all.

From Yellow Spydeer,

I got a letter from Can Am stating my steering box had a recall. I have a 2008 GS (I knew so little I don't even know if they made a RS yet) and it was 2011 when I got the letter, in a different state! I was put on a list of 17 ahead of me, so I waited about 2 months. The local dealership called me and said my number was up, along with the brake recall and took it in. They replaced the steering unit and redid all three of the disk pads for $75.00 which I thought was cheap. The bike is rock steady and the steering is way lighter than the original steering box. I bought the bike in Chicago and now live in St Louis, MO where I got it fixed. No steering surprises and stops quiet as a mouse. I hope this helps. Does anyone in the St Louis, MO area ride a Spyder? I can't find a soul to ride with.


Keep the rubber side down..

[bjt]

Head west towards Cuba, MO. to meet up with a large and active group of Spyder riders. They're called the Mo gang and if you check the Missouri state board, they have group rides / gatherings quite often. Here's a link to that board....
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/f...hp?40-Missouri

[Raptor]

I find it interesting that this DPS issue is still going on. I remember when my DPS problems were happening I was out in the woods and the DPS stopped working completely and I got the light and warning scroll. I got so mad that this was happening again that I just let it rip and rode harder than ever before. Not a smart thing to do, but I was just beyond mad at this point. Remember, this was back when I was still charging like some kind ofd crazy person! Well low and behold I had the best run through the twisties I had ever had! At that point I was convinced that I was not going to fix it because I liked it so much better wthout the DPS.

But then the official recall came out and I caved and had the DPS replaced because I wanted to do the right thing. Well, it's never been the same since. Now it's twitchy and nervous feeling etc. I made air pressure adjustments and technique adjustments and improved the situation quite a bit. But I'll never forget that run through the twisties that day when I thought for the first time I had total control of the steering and the track. I wish I could get that back.

Fast forward to present day. The ride I did 2 weeks ago was awful. A major part of that was because the steering was all over the place. On my most recent ride, however, which I posted about, I went into a parking lot and did full lock circles in either direction and then did a series of figure eights. This stabilized the system by a huge amount and during the ride, even in high wind the steering was incredibly improved. Not as good as with no DPS, but it was definitely doable. Somehow by doing this I somehow did some sort of recalibration of the steering sensors and perhaps equalized the the way the steering box applies steering input force.

I dunno, it sure helped my situation, and might be worth a shot for those that have had their DPS replaced but are unhappy with that over-reactive, twitchy feeling. I figure, you don't have anything to lose by trying it, and it's kinda fun to boot! The SMEs can chime in here and tell me if I'm full of baloney or not, but I know what I felt, and it sure helped me out.

[gjco]

The last time I had mine out I experienced the steering locking up. It was not that big of a deal seeing that I am a big guy all though a bit of a surprise. All I have had done was the update. I am making plans to take my spyder in while I am on vacation since my shop is has week and half lag time. I hope the replacement power steering unit fixes this. I am very happy with my 08 sm5. Oh well we will see what happens.

[Questions]

I don't think you have to pull the rear one---- I remember doing a test early this year and only pulled the front one to disable the DPS.

I'll try again to day as I'm going for a ride ......

Ace Café Rat here again. On Friday my 2008 GS Roadster's DPS malfunction damn near killed by sending me into a lane of oncoming traffic when it suddenly started working again after about 8 minutes of trying to force me to turn right!

So I tried this yesterday, I pulled the front fuse only and all the DPS problems vanished! Unfortunately the SpyderNanny started scolding me with scrolling "Check DPS Unit" across the control screen every five firkin' seconds! I have an appointment today with the Can-Am dealership in ABQ. I am going to ride it with the DPS disabled so that I can arrive there in one piece!

Ace Café Rat

[Frig]

I brought my 2008 in for tune up in May of this year and mechanic told me steering wasn't right and some recall replacements (which I had in 2010) were also bad. I knew that it wasn't right since I told them it would go on and off at will. They checked with BRP and I was told too much time had passed. New DPS with labor $1,700. I'm pulling the fuses today.

[coz]

I think that is Bulls--t on the part of brp. The dps units should be covered forever, since they are NOT SERVICEABLE . A failure can easily get you killed. Especially since the failure rate is low.

[Questions]

Well, I took "Old Yeller" to a Can-Am dealer in ABQ, NM (nearest city nowhere I live). I had pulled one of the fuses (the one in front) and so with the DPS disabled I arrived safe and sound @ the dealer. They put the fuses back in and test ride it and the frikin' things never acts up. So they plug it into the all-powerful BRP-Computer-Brainiac and it spits out the verdict that the charging system is going out. It'll cost $1400 to fix it. I need a reality check from long-time owners of Spyders....does that sound right to you are am I about to be the victim of an a**-fu**ing? I pulled the battery and tested it when this problem cropped up on Thursday and it was fine, strong and holding a charge.

So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna keep the DPS permanently turned off by pulling both of the fuses associated with it. Since the DPS is supposed to be a huge drain on the electrical system I should (hope) be able to go months or longer before having to shell out $1400 to replace the stator and regulator.

Wadda ya think amigos?

Ace Cafe Rat

[DrewNJ]

I didn't read through the entire thread but based on your last post I'd recommend swapping the battery and/or checking the wire connections at the battery. These things get all kinds of pissy when the battery starts going bad.

How'd you like riding with no DPS? I kinda liked it and actually thought it was easier to ride at speed. Low speed takes a bit more though....
Good luck!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Questions]

I didn't read through the entire thread but based on your last post I'd recommend swapping the battery and/or checking the wire connections at the battery. These things get all kinds of pissy when the battery starts going bad.

How'd you like riding with no DPS? I kinda liked it and actually thought it was easier to ride at speed. Low speed takes a bit more though....
Good luck!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Hey Drew,

Yeah the battery passed its tests with flying colors. The connections were good too...could hardly get them to budge they were so secure. I simply adore driving without DPS. I am a lifelong motorcyclist of almost 50 years and a sidecarist of almost 10 years and so I am not missing the power assist at all, the Spyder feels much more stable and under my control. I'll never turn the DPS back on if I have my way. At low speeds my arms get a workout, which is not a bad thing and exactly what I'm used to from driving a sidecar rig for almost a decade. I'd love to find a way to ditch the entire VSS and ride with skill alone...just like one does on a sidecar rig.

Ace Café Rat