Rear Tire Pressure - General Altimax RT43

[ButterSmooth]

HA! I did!! May have ruined some clothing though -- But I'm not talking about it...

[IGETAROUND]

I run Vedstras (sp) all the way around on my F3-T @ 16 psi and while pushing it hard coming out of a 20mph corner had the front completely break traction and move a foot or so to the side Had never been able to make it do that previously, the understeer on these is amazing. I only got 11,300 out of the previous rear which was at 2/32 in the center and 5/32 on the shoulders running @ 18psi. I'm not a little guy, ~250lbs.

Al in Kazoo

[Deanna777]

Deana, thank you and I am curious as to why 26 lbs? It seems like most are running at approximately 18 psi.

jbs1218,

The reason why I run 26psi is I would prefer to.

Deanna

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

jbs1218,

The reason why I run 26psi is I would prefer to.

Deanna

To each His / Her own ..... However that tire at 26 PSI is going to be HARSH feeling, and it will not have the TRACTION that it would at 18 psi ( this is science, not butt theory ).......But what do I know I was only a trained " accident " investigator, with actual schooling in the subject ..... good luck .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

To each His / Her own ..... However that tire at 26 PSI is going to be HARSH feeling, and it will not have the TRACTION that it would at 18 psi ( this is science, not butt theory ).......But what do I know I was only a trained " accident " investigator, with actual schooling in the subject ..... good luck .... Mike

Plus, it'll wear quicker than it really needs to; it'll be more prone to punctures from road debris, rocks etc, especially as it gets down closer to the wear bars; and because of the over-inflation it'll be caning the heck out of your Spyder's suspension components, even the front end & the steering components too, altho those cop it to a lesser degree than everything up the back end!

But you're right, it is your bike, & it'll be your money that you're forking out earlier to replace the prematurely worn or punctured tire &/or any damaged suspension/steering components too, so it IS your choice!

Just Sayin'

[PMK]

I run Vedstras (sp) all the way around on my F3-T @ 16 psi and while pushing it hard coming out of a 20mph corner had the front completely break traction and move a foot or so to the side Had never been able to make it do that previously, the understeer on these is amazing. I only got 11,300 out of the previous rear which was at 2/32 in the center and 5/32 on the shoulders running @ 18psi. I'm not a little guy, ~250lbs.

Al in Kazoo

To understand you correctly, the Vredersteins on the front broke traction and pushed / understeered at 20 mph on dry pavement?
If so, that is not good.
Did the rear tire slip sideways when the fronts reestablished grip?
High siding a Spyder is not on my want to do list. Even getting tossed off if the grip came back instantly would not be fun.
On account of the Spyders lighter weight compared to most cars, I refused to run touring tires on the Spyder and only run high performance automotive tires that have additional grip but less longevity.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

To understand you correctly, the Vredersteins on the front broke traction and pushed / understeered at 20 mph on dry pavement?
If so, that is not good.
Did the rear tire slip sideways when the fronts reestablished grip?
High siding a Spyder is not on my want to do list. Even getting tossed off if the grip came back instantly would not be fun.
On account of the Spyders lighter weight compared to most cars, I refused to run touring tires on the Spyder and only run high performance automotive tires that have additional grip but less longevity.

" DRY pavement " .... was it absolutely clean ???? , no SAND , DIRT or any other type of Debris ???? .... I highly doubt it .... just a thought ..... JMHO ..... Mike

[PMK]

" DRY pavement " .... was it absolutely clean ???? , no SAND , DIRT or any other type of Debris ???? .... I highly doubt it .... just a thought ..... JMHO ..... Mike

While I respect your honest opinion, not you nor I was riding the Spyder when the front end stepped out. My reply asked a bit more from the person that made the post.

It is very concerning to read from his post, that Vredesteins on the front understeer, and in the words quoted from his post, this did not sound like a one time incident.
“Had never been able to make it do that previously, the understeer on these is amazing.”

Possibly, Igetaround will post additional details.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

While I respect your honest opinion, not you nor I was riding the Spyder when the front end stepped out. My reply asked a bit more from the person that made the post.

It is very concerning to read from his post, that Vredesteins on the front understeer, and in the words quoted from his post, this did not sound like a one time incident.
“Had never been able to make it do that previously, the understeer on these is amazing.”

Possibly, Igetaround will post additional details.

Well opinions are opinions ..... I just put a pair of Q5's on my 14 RT .....drove a total of 750 miles in 9 days and mostly on State highways and local streets .... My tires didn't " step out" , not even in a couple of " Gulley Washers ". I do run my Fronts at 17 psi because I also do ride aggressive in the Twistie's. I weigh 170lbs. so that and His one pound less PSI might make a difference ( but I wouldn't bet money on that ). I am still leaning very heavily on Road Conditions on this one. You are a " SHOCK " guru .... if someone is using a different weight oil than recommended are complaints valid ????? .... Mike

[PMK]

Well opinions are opinions ..... I just put a pair of Q5's on my 14 RT .....drove a total of 750 miles in 9 days and mostly on State highways and local streets .... My tires didn't " step out" , not even in a couple of " Gulley Washers ". I do run my Fronts at 17 psi because I also do ride aggressive in the Twistie's. I weigh 170lbs. so that and His one pound less PSI might make a difference ( but I wouldn't bet money on that ). I am still leaning very heavily on Road Conditions on this one. You are a " SHOCK " guru .... if someone is using a different weight oil than recommended are complaints valid ????? .... Mike

Not exactly understanding your shock oil comment as compared to his tires not providing grip.

Then again, he may have add ons too, such as a firmer swaybar and different front shocks, or even shocks with clickers set to the firm side, even excess preload, which could firm the front or roll stiffness and cause understeer.

Too many variables, and why I asked. Maybe he will reply and explain more. Maybe not.
Regardless, understeer or push on a street motorcycle is typically not good and bad things tend to happen. For now best to await his reply and explanation.

For grins, have you watched any of the 2023 new release videos. Those Rykers cornering kind of look like the frame and swingarm is flexing a bunch. Like winding up a spring...

[IGETAROUND]

To understand you correctly, the Vredersteins on the front broke traction and pushed / understeered at 20 mph on dry pavement?
If so, that is not good.
Did the rear tire slip sideways when the fronts reestablished grip?
High siding a Spyder is not on my want to do list. Even getting tossed off if the grip came back instantly would not be fun.
On account of the Spyders lighter weight compared to most cars, I refused to run touring tires on the Spyder and only run high performance automotive tires that have additional grip but less longevity.

Yes the pavement was completely clean and dry. I gassed it hard after the apex of the corner and only the front tires broke traction and moved laterally about a foot. There was no intervention from nanny, no cut throttle, brakes applied. Back tire never moved off its prescribed line. I have slid the front end on wet pavement previously but had never had the front jump laterally like this on wet or dry pavement. And yes this was a one time incident, had not happened previously.

Hope this clears up the questions.

Al in Kazoo

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Not exactly understanding your shock oil comment as compared to his tires not providing grip.

Then again, he may have add ons too, such as a firmer swaybar and different front shocks, or even shocks with clickers set to the firm side, even excess preload, which could firm the front or roll stiffness and cause understeer.

Too many variables, and why I asked. Maybe he will reply and explain more. Maybe not.
Regardless, understeer or push on a street motorcycle is typically not good and bad things tend to happen. For now best to await his reply and explanation.

For grins, have you watched any of the 2023 new release videos. Those Rykers cornering kind of look like the frame and swingarm is flexing a bunch. Like winding up a spring...

The " shock oil " reference had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with His tires and I am surprised you think it did ...... PS FRAME flex had nothing to with His issue either ..... all the best .... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Yes the pavement was completely clean and dry. I gassed it hard after the apex of the corner and only the front tires broke traction and moved laterally about a foot. There was no intervention from nanny, no cut throttle, brakes applied. Back tire never moved off its prescribed line. I have slid the front end on wet pavement previously but had never had the front jump laterally like this on wet or dry pavement. And yes this was a one time incident, had not happened previously.

Hope this clears up the questions.

Al in Kazoo

Al we've been friends for many, many years ..... and from My knowledge of tires and traction .... there are NO CLEAN ROADS - PERIOD. The debris on the road surface isn't always visible, you could throw a tablespoon of sand on that piece of road and not be able to see it .... however your tires will discover it and react accordingly .... I'm not dissing you Bro , but I am ANAL about tires and traction..... JMHO ..... Mike

[IGETAROUND]

.........
Then again, he may have add ons too, such as a firmer swaybar and different front shocks, or even shocks with clickers set to the firm side, even excess preload, which could firm the front or roll stiffness and cause understeer.

Too many variables, and why I asked. Maybe he will reply and explain more. Maybe not.
Regardless, understeer or push on a street motorcycle is typically not good and bad things tend to happen. For now best to await his reply and explanation.
........

I think the sway bar is stock, certainly has a lot of roll in cornering, shocks are stock. Both spyders I've had had considerable understeer, though that was improved with an updated sway bar on the 2014 RS-M.

Al in Kazoo

[Peter Aawen]

Yes the pavement was completely clean and dry. I gassed it hard after the apex of the corner and only the front tires broke traction and moved laterally about a foot. There was no intervention from nanny, no cut throttle, brakes applied. Back tire never moved off its prescribed line. I have slid the front end on wet pavement previously but had never had the front jump laterally like this on wet or dry pavement. And yes this was a one time incident, had not happened previously.

....

I gotta agree with Mike - I reckon there must've been something else going on here for BOTH tires to 'break traction' at exactly the same time & suddenly move laterally about a foot, AND do so without an Nanny reaction &/or intervention either!

Yeah, there's a possibility that it could've been due to sand or some other reason causing a particularly 'less grippy' section of road surface that was wide enough & angled just right to catch both front wheels at the same time..... but then you run into the questions of 'how come BOTH front wheels reacted identically & at the same time?' & 'why didn't the rear react similarly as it passed over the same patch of road surface?' & 'why didn't the Nanny react at all, when she does so readily for all sorts of other less critical incidents?' .

I've done a lot of skid pan & dry track testing/playing with various tires fitted to Spyders, and I've never encountered or been able to create exactly what you've described Al, BUT, I have encountered something that sounds very similar - so I wonder if your '... break in traction & front moving laterally about a foot ... ' could've been due to a very short momentary lift of both front wheels due to a road surface irregularity?? THAT I have encountered, and if it's short/quick enough, the front wheels don't shift very far laterally at all and the Nanny may not detect &/or react to it because the wheels continue spinning at a 'close enough' speed for that moment, & it's so quick there's not enough yaw to register either!? That said, the feeling you get from that occuring during cornering is more of a 'sudden lurch of the whole Spyder off track & across to one side' rather than the 'Oh come ON, turn you *******, turn!' feeling that you generally get from understeer! . You don't necessarily even feel the 'lift & bump' from the front wheels leaving the ground & then touching down again that you do generally feel if this happens when you're riding straight - the 'lurch sideways' effect seems to mask the 'lift & bump' very well - and in my experience, it's often only detectable by reviewing the video! . It really doesn't take much in the way of a road surface irregularity either - given the right conditions & tire pressures etc, it can be caused by something as small & otherwise undetectable as the very fine seam between two runs of the surface laying machinery; not any thing you can SEE, but once you know it happened & exactly where it happened, you can (sometimes ) go back & find the surface irregularity if you have a long enough straight edge & an otherwise smooth surface - and sometimes not! .

Just a thought?!

[IGETAROUND]

I gotta agree with Mike - I reckon there must've been something else going on here for BOTH tires to 'break traction' at exactly the same time & suddenly move laterally about a foot, AND do so without an Nanny reaction &/or intervention either!

Yeah, there's a possibility that it could've been due to sand or some other reason causing a particularly 'less grippy' section of road surface that was wide enough & angled just right to catch both front wheels at the same time..... but then you run into the questions of 'how come BOTH front wheels reacted identically & at the same time?' & 'why didn't the rear react similarly as it passed over the same patch of road surface?' & 'why didn't the Nanny react at all, when she does so readily for all sorts of other less critical incidents?' .

I've done a lot of skid pan & dry track testing/playing with various tires fitted to Spyders, and I've never encountered or been able to create exactly what you've described Al, BUT, I have encountered something that sounds very similar - so I wonder if your '... break in traction & front moving laterally about a foot ... ' could've been due to a very short momentary lift of both front wheels due to a road surface irregularity?? THAT I have encountered, and if it's short/quick enough, the front wheels don't shift very far laterally at all and the Nanny may not detect &/or react to it because the wheels continue spinning at a 'close enough' speed for that moment, & it's so quick there's not enough yaw to register either!? That said, the feeling you get from that occuring during cornering is more of a 'sudden lurch of the whole Spyder off track & across to one side' rather than the 'Oh come ON, turn you *******, turn!' feeling that you generally get from understeer! . You don't necessarily even feel the 'lift & bump' from the front wheels leaving the ground & then touching down again that you do generally feel if this happens when you're riding straight - the 'lurch sideways' effect seems to mask the 'lift & bump' very well - and in my experience, it's often only detectable by reviewing the video! . It really doesn't take much in the way of a road surface irregularity either - given the right conditions & tire pressures etc, it can be caused by something as small & otherwise undetectable as the very fine seam between two runs of the surface laying machinery; not any thing you can SEE, but once you know it happened & exactly where it happened, you can (sometimes ) go back & find the surface irregularity if you have a long enough straight edge & an otherwise smooth surface - and sometimes not! .

Just a thought?!

Interesting thought Peter, and you may just be spot on on that guess.
However, this is on a frequently traveled stretch of road that I drive when I'm feeling a need for high speed twisties and the need to work out some aggressions. I've not noticed previously any dip, bump, or irregularities. That being said your idea of minor imperfections is plausible. Whatever caused it it certainly got my attention!! Thank you all for your input and ideas. That's what makes this a outstanding place to post ideas and thoughts.

Al in Kazoo

[pidjones]

This sure wandered far from recommended rear tire pressure for the G A tire. BTW, I can see one reason that Deana prefers the higher pressure - it would make steering much easier. Not meaning to speak for hr, but maybe she doesn't see riding the Spyder as a performance challenge.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This sure wandered far from recommended rear tire pressure for the G A tire. BTW, I can see one reason that Deana prefers the higher pressure - it would make steering much easier. Not meaning to speak for hr, but maybe she doesn't see riding the Spyder as a performance challenge.

" Deanna prefers the higher pressure ", yes it will make it easier to turn and if you spend a lot of time turning the handlebars while the Spyder is Stopped with the motor Off. Then the higher PSI will accomplish that. However if you like better traction ( especially in the wet ) and a more comfortable ride .... then 18 PSI is a better amount .... JMHO .... Mike

[Deanna777]

This sure wandered far from recommended rear tire pressure for the G A tire. BTW, I can see one reason that Deana prefers the higher pressure - it would make steering much easier. Not meaning to speak for hr, but maybe she doesn't see riding the Spyder as a performance challenge.

pidjones,

No, I don't use the spyder as performance challenge. I am on my 2nd General Altimax RT43 tire. My spyder handles quite well on wet and dry roads. Yes, my spyder steers easier at the 26PSI on the General Altimax RT43 rear tire.

Deanna

[2dogs]

Deanna, not criticizing or demeaning you in any way but how many miles did you get on your last GA rear tire? I am running a GA also. Just wondering. I'm squeezing 30k out of mine right now. Be changing it soon.

[Deanna777]

Deanna, not criticizing or demeaning you in any way but how many miles did you get on your last GA rear tire? I am running a GA also. Just wondering. I'm squeezing 30k out of mine right now. Be changing it soon.

2dogs:

I changed the OEM Kenda at 5,824 miles, installed 1st GA rear on 6/2015, I got roughly 18,729 miles on the first GA.

I changed the 2nd GA on 4/11/2019( then life got in the way,) at 24,553 miles. The total mileage on my spyder is 30,212.

So I have roughly 5,659 miles on my 2nd GA ( off topic, I have been in a life curve since 2019 to current, so I don't get time to ride as much as I'd like to). I hope the info helps.

Deanna \

[2dogs]

2dogs:

I changed the OEM Kenda at 5,824 miles, installed 1st GA rear on 6/2015, I got roughly 18,729 miles on the first GA.

I changed the 2nd GA on 4/11/2019( then life got in the way,) at 24,553 miles. The total mileage on my spyder is 30,212.

So I have roughly 5,659 miles on my 2nd GA ( off topic, I have been in a life curve since 2019 to current, so I don't get time to ride as much as I'd like to). I hope the info helps.

Deanna \

Thanks Deanna, good info. Keep on a ride'n and straighten out that curve some.

[Deanna777]

Thanks Deanna, good info. Keep on a ride'n and straighten out that curve some.

You are Welcome for the info.

(off topic: It will be awhile before I can straighten out the life curve, thanks for asking).

Deanna