2010 RTS - unexplained quitting fixed & some Engine mods.
Hey all...
A long read but may help someone out...
Well, I have finished up (for now anyhow) on the work I was doing on my wife’s 2010 RTS. I am scared to say this but I think I have resolved the problem. Knock-on-wood!
Last year I replaced the sparkplugs in this bike. It really needed them and I don’t know for sure but I think they were the originals with 63k km’s on them. The bike seemed to run fine afterwards and I did other little bits of housekeeping while I was in there like Vac hoses, LED headlights and such. Nothing major.
It took me some time to do this as it was my first time tearing into the bike that deep. I could not believe what you had to do to get at the plugs. I thought I should be replacing the plug wires too but I didn’t have time to do so as I was trying to finish the bike up for vacation and it would have taken too long to get a set of BajaRon plug wires up to me. Little did I know I would have another chance to remedy that.
Everything got buttoned up and I had it out on multiple100/200km rides and the bike seemed to work fine. So the first day of vacation came and off we set. It was an extremely warm week here for us with temps in the 35c range. We got to our hotel the first evening and all was well. We stopped many times during the day without issue with the bike. The next morning we got up, and headed out. After about an hour and a half of riding, we stopped to take a break for a good 45 minutes or so. When we got back on the bike wetried to start it and it revved quite high and then quit. No amount of cranking would start the bike. I did get a code (forget it now) and decided to let it sit for a while. After another half hour it started right up as if nothing ever happened.
The same thing happened about 200km down the road when we stopped again. This time it took about 2 hours to let it sort its problems out. We made a Bee-line to our hotel another 100km away without issue.
Next morning it started right up, got gas next door and it would not start up again. The engine was not even up to temp. I only had to move the bike about a 100 meters or so. We had already decided to cancel the rest of our vacation and head home the night before.
We didn’t wait that long and it started up fine. The problem always seemed to be with the starting. However we got down the road and onto the highway and this time it dies on the Trans Canada. At 120kph the damn thing goes into limp home mode. It was like someone pulled a brake. We almost lost control. My riding skills on this are not the best yet as I don’t have a lot of saddle time on it. Scared the crap out of me so bad I almost lost my breakfast. I have never experienced anything like this. We sat there in the blazing sun on side of the road... 2.5 hours and it finally started. Seems you just have to wait it out. We had quite a few people on bikes stop and offer help (no one Harley though). We did make it home but I didn’t even look at the Spyder sideways for 3 months. I was pretty upset.
I eventually looked up the code and it was one that involved the throttle body. I wish I could remember the code number. Basically it said that the throttle position was not where it was supposed to be. It was not the throttle body or the sensor, but the “Throttle body motor”. Apparently our friends at BRP were replacing them until the bugs got worked out of them. It was a known problem. If not under warranty (which it obviously wasn’t) it was going to cost $2000 or better here in Canada for parts. Well, that wasn’t going to happen.
With more and more reading and research , I understood that they were taking the crankcase vent and running it to the air box. There it would get sucked down into the cylinders and get burnt off. Great idea if you have a carburetor system that can keep that sticky, oily film from developing by having fuel right there. This throttle body never stood a chance.
When I got the bike apart this spring and inspected it, I found that the throttle body plates were so sticky and covered with oily sludge and residue that when I forced them open, they would not close on their own. At least with warm engine they would... after a couple of hours. This sticky goo and sludge fought the return spring and won. The plates never returned to their home position until I cleaned them. At first I thought that the motor was responsible for both opening AND CLOSING the throttle plates but realized that there had to be a spring return for safety.
With the plates open under their own accord, I sprayed the throttle body and plates with throttle body cleaner and within 2 or 3 seconds the plated snapped back in place. What a nice feeling! I cleaned the crap out of them. I was so happy, I was on a high! Maybe it was the solvent, maybe the fact that I just got the problems resolved... I don’t know.
We’re going to try some vacation time next week weather permitting. That will convince me one way or another as to whether I have indeed fixed the problem or not. If we have, then I will start a new list of things to do... alignment (have to find someone local other that the local BRP dealer), mount some new tires, BajaRons sway bar, new grips, etc. Right now the handling of this bike is awful. I am also going to add the air scoops (if I can find a set here in Canada) and add all new sound and heat insulation.
While I had the skin off the bike this time I preformed the following 5 maintenance and preventive maintenance items: (next few posts)
Tim
Last edited by MrMagicFingers; 07-10-2022 at 04:11 PM.
Reason: Added my name
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
I replaced the plug wires with BajaRons' plug wires. I was not going to make that mistake again. Great product you have there Ron. They're super quality and a very flexible wire set. In just removing the old wires you can feel how stiff they are and how they crunch when moved and bent.
Tim
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-10-2022 at 07:09 PM.
Reason: their - there & they're ;-)
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
I performed the canister-ectomy. I re-vented the fuel tank and the fuel smell is gone. I brought a new line up high beside the frame and then down to reuse the overflow line that came from the charcoal canister. I joined the two of them with a fuel filter after I cut off the “U” part of the vent hose. I used that “U” piece elsewhere. I also plugged the vacuum line that went to the Charcoal canister with a bolt and silicone.
Tim
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-10-2022 at 07:11 PM.
Reason: else ware - elsewhere ;-)
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
New Battery. I would like to find the designer that put the battery under the left side of the seat. I would take his man card and rip it up. What was BRP thinking??? I have an extremely hard time wrestling it out and took forever to get it back in. I went with the proper OEM battery. I had to order it in from Amazon as NO ONE had stock locally.
Tim
Last edited by MrMagicFingers; 07-10-2022 at 04:12 PM.
Reason: Added my name
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
I plugged off the crank case vent line nipple on the air box with silicone and created a crank case vent-to-atmosphere circuit. No more oil going into the air box. No more gummed up Throttle Body. I used a modified glass tube fuel filter, a regular disposable fuel filter, and a leftover piece of preformed hose from the canister-ectomy I did.
Seems to work like a charm. Note the vapors in the clear tubing after the bike had only idled for two radiator fan cycles without being driven. I can’t imagine the crap that was drawn into the engine when hooked up to the air box that would be sucking vapors in from the crankcase.
Tim
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-10-2022 at 07:13 PM.
Reason: off & without ;-)
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
I wrapped my exhaust pipes. In the little riding we did last year, my “twig and berries” just about got roasted off me. Wow... the heat coming up from the engine. The glove compartment was like an oven and it’s unfit for anything that would contain a battery like a phone. It reduced the heat substantially with the exhaust wrap alone. I can’t believe the how close the routed the exhaust to the fuel tank. No wonder the gas boils in traffic.
I am sure that the bike is louder than it should be as most of the foam that they were using for sound attenuation is gone. It’s real messy and sticky stuff. I scrapped the majority of it off so I could do the work to the throttle body. I was terrified that this stuff would make its way into the throttle body that sits just inched below it. If the bike ends up working well, I intend to add the BRP airs coops and re-insulate the engine compartment with proper stuff. Foam is not what should be used.
Tim
Last edited by MrMagicFingers; 07-10-2022 at 04:13 PM.
Reason: Added my name
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
Makes me think that using Seafoam additive added to the gas might help keep the throttle bodies from getting gummed up.
I am a HUGE fan of Seafoam. Unfortunately it would not and could not help here.
The throttle plates are above the the fuel injectors. Fuel never gets to cross the throttle body plates. If this was a carburetor instead of FI then there is a chance that some fuel could make it over the plates depending on the layout of the carburetor.
The plates here are strictly for airflow. The only cleaning is a manual cleaning.
Tim
Current - 2010 Spyder RTS
1) Experience is something you don't get until after you need it.
2) A closed mouth gathers no foot.
3) IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, WHEN WILL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO IT OVER??
___
Horsepower is an illusory mathematical equation; Torque is REAL, and is the source of all good things in the world.
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
Very nice write up. I know this is a year old but did you do the vent mod to the bike as well? Was it really needed? The reason I ask is my new to me 2012 RT I just got rather roasted my chestnuts as well in 96 degree traffic. My acoustic foam was destroyed like yours was, I am replacing that with high temp hood foam. Did the exhaust wrap make a significant difference. Thanks in advance... John
2012 RT-S , BajaRon's plugs and wires 1" spacer Silver
Great write up. On my 2011 I learned early on to clean the butterfly valves every spring. For the same reasons as OP found out. Since mine was a Manual tranny, I left my oil level on the low side, this helped the amount of oil residue in the air box. Bruce
New to Sue and I
2021, LTD, Asphalt Gray, 22,000 miles
Gone but not forgotten
RTS 2011 SM5, 95,000 miles
2010 RTS - unexplained quitting fixed & some Engine mods.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by LouW
