Front Sprocket Recall - Interim Repair Completed

[stewartj239]

After receiving the recall letter in late June, I called my dealer to schedule the interim repair procedure for July 6th. I just picked it up today and what they found was that my sprocket passed the testing with no movement. I have a 2016 RT-S with 6400 miles, so I am not totally surprised about it. Assuming the final repair parts are available by late August, they have me penciled in to come back in September. I am wondering if this problem WILL affect all Spyders / F3s or if it could be limited to just certain lots of sprockets from possibly a single or multiple vendors??

[Ex-Rocket]

[old Timer]

Another possibility for those in the suggested recall would be that they switched to a different vendor that had looser tolerances combined with a less stringent quality control, or even a lesser alloy of the sprocket itself.

[rjinaz86323]

Bummer, mine failed. Waiting on a new sprocket.

[azprince]

If anyone finds out what the test procedure entails, please let us know. I am unwilling to leave my Spyder at the dealer for who knows how long. I can do my own replacement.
Thanks, Dick

[stewartj239]

Another possibility for those in the suggested recall would be that they switched to a different vendor that had looser tolerances combined with a less stringent quality control, or even a lesser alloy of the sprocket itself.

Yes, my thoughts as well, as many places have more than 1 supplier for parts. I assume this part is not serialized, but you would think that it is tracked by a LOT #. It seems that they should know which Spyders are affected.

[stewartj239]

If anyone finds out what the test procedure entails, please let us know. I am unwilling to leave my Spyder at the dealer for who knows how long. I can do my own replacement.
Thanks, Dick

I was told that they were checking for tolerance to see if it was in spec.

[troop]

I was told that they were checking for tolerance to see if it was in spec.

Yeah ... Likely the old eyeball check. 1.) No red dust residue? Check 2.) Teeth look good? Check 3.) Moly'd and re-installed? Check

[stewartj239]

Yeah ... Likely the old eyeball check. 1.) No red dust residue? Check 2.) Teeth look good? Check 3.) Moly'd and re-installed? Check

Correct. All 3 were done. They had it for 2 days to do the work. I know they said that BRP says that it is an hour job though. Over the winter, I verified it myself and saw no issues, but since it is under recall now, I want it fixed and definitely want to go through the dealership. I am very happy that they recalled it because it has been on my list of potential future fixes that is probably coming. Now I won't have to worry about it.

[rjinaz86323]

Yeah ... Likely the old eyeball check. 1.) No red dust residue? Check 2.) Teeth look good? Check 3.) Moly'd and re-installed? Check

According to my Service Writer there is a specific measurement they take to determine if sprocket needs replaced. Mine looked like new, but still failed. No red dust, nothing.

[EdMat]

According to my Service Writer there is a specific measurement they take to determine if sprocket needs replaced. Mine looked like new, but still failed. No red dust, nothing.

I can't remember a case of failure that I have read about that did not have the red rust dust. Anyone know of one?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

According to my Service Writer there is a specific measurement they take to determine if sprocket needs replaced. Mine looked like new, but still failed. No red dust, nothing.

From this forum .... my understanding about the " Red Dust " is it's caused because of FRETTING ..... I have no idea how FRETTING could even be measured .... ( how would you measure .000000001 mm ?????? .....JMHO .... Mike

[Little Blue]

From this forum .... my understanding about the " Red Dust " is it's caused because of FRETTING ..... I have no idea how FRETTING could even be measured .... ( how would you measure .000000001 mm ?????? .....JMHO .... Mike

The 'RED DUST' is a good starting point for Fretting.
I am no engineer but I have learned to look for the 'Red Dust'. ......

[Peteoz]

From this forum .... my understanding about the " Red Dust " is it's caused because of FRETTING ..... I have no idea how FRETTING could even be measured .... ( how would you measure .000000001 mm ?????? .....JMHO .... Mike

I would imagine there is a set amount of free play required before fretting begins, Mike, and BRP engineers have been able to determine that amount. If they can measure the sprocket on the suspect builds, and find that it has exceeded that set play figure, then fretting has effectively started, even without red dust appearing, and the Spyder shouldn’t be ridden. If it hasn’t exceeded that set play figure on the 14-19 models, then you likely have one of the “better” sprockets, and can ride until the new “improved” sprocket arrives in Aug/Sept. This is, of course, pure speculation as I, like Little Blue, am not an engineer

Pete

[pauly1]

I would imagine there is a set amount of free play required before fretting begins, Mike, and BRP engineers have been able to determine that amount. If they can measure the sprocket on the suspect builds, and find that it has exceeded that set play figure, then fretting has effectively started, even without red dust appearing, and the Spyder shouldn’t be ridden. If it hasn’t exceeded that set play figure on the 14-19 models, then you likely have one of the “better” sprockets, and can ride until the new “improved” sprocket arrives in Aug/Sept. This is, of course, pure speculation as I, like Little Blue, am not an engineer

Pete

Fretting wear and corrosion are the result of surface finish non-uniformities. It could also result from non-uniform surface hardness on mating surfaces. Also needed is sufficiently high contact pressure between the mating surfaces and cyclical loading, e.g., vibration. Extremely small points of material will friction weld together and the break apart, causing an increase in surface roughness, causing more weld/break cycles. Eventually, the accumulated worn material manifests as the red dust, or oxides of iron. Sources of the cyclical loading, vibration, are inherent to the engine, and in the case of our Spyders, the dreaded drive belt vibration.

The fix that Kenny Butler and Lamonster Garage use essentially fills in the gaps and "glues" the sprocket to the shaft via the Loctite compound. If the sprocket spline cannot move on the mating shaft, fretting wear and corrosion simply cannot happen. There needs to be cyclical, high stress movement in the joint. The use of moly-based lube minimizes the contact pressure of the surfaces to minimize the possibility of fretting wear and corrosion.

[PMK]

Far too much misinformation posted within this topic.

#1) The inspection / interim fix is very simple. The tech removes the pulley retention bolt. Forces the pulley in one direction, then makes a witness mark. Tech forces the pulley the opposite direction, then makes a second witness mark. The distance between marks determines the amount of wear.

Sadly, there is no removal of the pulley along with cleaning away contamination of the splines. How debris within the splines will alter the wear dimension may or may not be a factor.

Upon completion the original retention bolt is reinstalled and torqued.

#2) Fretting is a type of corrosion. Not so much corrosion based on exposure to moisture or chemical attack, rather a wearing of surfaces under extreme pressure. Under pressure with microscopic movement results in fretting. Very common to see this on aircraft structures assembled with solid rivets driven tightly when assembled. Even with the rivet expand into the hole, that movement, microscopic movement results in seeing black aluminum oxide around the rivet. In the case of the pulley, being ferrous, you see iron oxides, the infamous red dust. If there has been enough fretting to create visual red dust on the pulleys exterior, you have wear to some extent.

#3) The interim inspection does not call out for the tech to remove, visually inspect or relube a pulley.

#4) At this time, it is unknown just how many pulleys are ok, are worn, or have actually failed. One well respected tech indicates he has seen very few failed pulleys.

Misinformation can be irresponsible in that owners may follow those words and decide to avoid accomplishing a pulley inspection, whether at the dealer, or done as a DIY. Best case, all is good and this simple easy check allows safe operation. Worse case, your Spyder loses forward propulsion and bad things happen.

Please be careful how you share your words and strive for facts, not fiction.

[PMK]

Pauly1, apologies for posting similar info at almost identical times.

[pauly1]

No worries. You provided pertinent information on description of inspection and another voice on the wear/corrosion phenomenon.

We have 3 F3 models. One sprocket on a 2018 failed at 20,500 miles, the 2015 is going strong at 32K+ miles and the other 2018 just had 3K miles when I last checked it.

[Bensonoid]

I took mine apart today. There was a small amount of dust on the inside of the pulley. The splines look fine and it's very snug on the shaft. I'm going to go the loctite 648 route when I reassemble. I think I caught it early enough.

[fatboy]

you do realize should it need to be removed it will need to be heated up to 450 degees

[Bensonoid]

Yes I do. I thought long and hard about whether to use moly or loctite and went with loctite. Many non-dealer Spyder shops have done this with great success. Hopefully I won't regret it.

[luminavanman]

My RT LTD is at BRP for a few things and also the recall which was one of them. BRP said the sprocket is good with 61k. I will wait for the permanent fix knowing I won't suddenly decel in front of a vehicle now. One less thing to worry about!

[stmike 1800]

I had mine in for the inspection yesterday and it passed, good to go. I have 26000 km on my 2018 RT.

[pidjones]

Brought my neighbor home yesterday from Mountain Motorsports Kodak after he dropped off his 2018 RT. They told him a couple days, and that they would be replacing his front sprocket with a temporary until the correct ones come in. Mine is a '21, so I guess it is up to me to keep an eye on it.

[jcthorne]

They do not remove the sprocket or moly lube the shaft as part of the interim inspection. Only if a sprocket must be replaced do they remove it.