Doesn't DESS work well as a security device?

[UtahPete]

I've been reading all these threads over the years about DESS malfunctioning on some models and years of Spyders, prompting a wholesale movement to disable the system.

I think, for the benefit of newer members, we should put this issue into a proper perspective. DESS is designed to prevent or at least discourage theft of our bikes. It seems to me, at least anecdotally, that it is working extremely well, isn't it?

[missouriboy]

Yes, it works extremely well. UNTIL IT DOESN'T!

My story: After a full-service oil-change, etc., my dealer's steward did the usual wash job. But failed to remove the ignition key first, allowing water to run down into the switch. Upshot: No start. DESS unit shot! Replacement covered by warranty. EIGHT DAYS waiting for part delivery, no ride for 8 days! Had to arrange other transportation to get back home. And to return again after repair.

Just a regular PITA!

[UtahPete]

I guess what you're saying is there are weaknesses to the ignition switch design that could result in DESS failure? But the DESS itself seems to be working as intended?

[bigbadbrucie]

Pete, I agree with you. D.E.S.S. works very well in my estimation. We ONLY hear noise from those who had had problems with it, but hear nothing from the masses that have not had problems (I have to plead guilty). Also, a lot of members discount the insurance aspect of disabling DESS. This is a $30,000 machine and I’m not willing to take the chance of an insurance denied claim because DESS was disabled. Do you think that Insurance Adjusters don’t follow this site?

[UtahPete]

Pete, I agree with you. D.E.S.S. works very well in my estimation. We ONLY hear noise from those who had had problems with it, but hear nothing from the masses that have not had problems (I have to plead guilty). Also, a lot of members discount the insurance aspect of disabling DESS. This is a $30,000 machine and I’m not willing to take the chance of an insurance denied claim because DESS was disabled. Do you think that Insurance Adjusters don’t follow this site?

And I don't remember there being even one instance of a DESS-equipped Spyder getting stolen.

[Navydad]

I have had three bikes with this chipped key system. The first two worked flawlessly for 80K and 87K miles. My 2015 RT was nothing but a pain so I had it disabled. I don't think the idea is flawed. I think BRP chooses to use the lowest bidder and gets crap parts. Kudos to those that haven't had issues and I hope your good fortune continues. For those of us who have been stranded and have had the parts replaced MORE THAN ONCE we have zero faith in BRP to resolve the problem and we have it disabled. To each his own. You ride your ride and I'll ride mine.

[UtahPete]

I have had three bikes with this chipped key system. The first two worked flawlessly for 80K and 87K miles. My 2015 RT was nothing but a pain so I had it disabled. I don't think the idea is flawed. I think BRP chooses to use the lowest bidder and gets crap parts. Kudos to those that haven't had issues and I hope your good fortune continues. For those of us who have been stranded and have had the parts replaced MORE THAN ONCE we have zero faith in BRP to resolve the problem and we have it disabled. To each his own. You ride your ride and I'll ride mine.

I realize it's personal choice. I'm just wondering if 'security' factors into your thinking on this.

[K80Shooter]

When I got my insurance, I mentioned that the bike had the DESS and told them what it was for.
They did not give a discount for it so do they view it as a theft deterrent?

Either way unless I start having problems and repairing it is outrageous, I'll just leave it as is.

[UtahPete]

When I got my insurance, I mentioned that the bike had the DESS and told them what it was for.
They did not give a discount for it so do they view it as a theft deterrent?

Either way unless I start having problems and repairing it is outrageous, I'll just leave it as is.

Insurance companies have a different perspective in assessing risk exposure than we mere mortals, I think.

[missouriboy]

I guess what you're saying is there are weaknesses to the ignition switch design that could result in DESS failure? But the DESS itself seems to be working as intended?

No, I am not saying the switch is a weak design. It has an inner flap that closes nicely when the key is removed.

What I am saying is untrained people who don't know to remove that key first should not be allowed anywhere near a Spyder with a water dispensing device! And we poor saps who know this have NO control over those who DO NOT.

And I am now out of warranty, so if said dealer does that again, I'd consider going to court if he tries to charge ME for another new one.

[missouriboy]

When I got my insurance, I mentioned that the bike had the DESS and told them what it was for.
They did not give a discount for it so do they view it as a theft deterrent?

Either way unless I start having problems and repairing it is outrageous, I'll just leave it as is.

Insurance companies have sophisticated procedures to rate each vehicle, with consideration given for any and every claim-deterrent feature on that vehicle. The agent has no leeway to discount extra for something already rated. (Your insurance company asks for your VIN. Modern computer systems use that VIN to instantly learn everything about the vehicle, and then instantly collect the feature-rates for that VIN.)

If yours fails at your expense, you can't just leave it as is, because the engine will not start. You have to either fix it or disable it. Action required! (Otherwise people wouldn't be getting "stranded" when they fail.)

[old Timer]

Don't know how far back it goes as my 2010 has a regular ignition key, no Dess, However any truck or car or motorcycle or............all have a dess of some sort for the last 10 or so years. Just be aware of where you park, a little common sense goes a long way.

[K80Shooter]

Insurance companies have sophisticated procedures to rate each vehicle, with consideration given for any and every claim-deterrent feature on that vehicle. The agent has no leeway to discount extra for something already rated. (Your insurance company asks for your VIN. Modern computer systems use that VIN to instantly learn everything about the vehicle, and then instantly collect the feature-rates for that VIN.)

If yours fails at your expense, you can't just leave it as is, because the engine will not start. You have to either fix it or disable it. Action required! (Otherwise people wouldn't be getting "stranded" when they fail.)

The "Leave it as is" means until I have problems, I'm not touching it. I fully understand what happens if it goes bad and you don't fix it.

Also I was asked if the bike had any anti-theft device on it.

[Donbmw]

Don't know how far back it goes as my 2010 has a regular ignition key, no Dess, However any truck or car or motorcycle or............all have a dess of some sort for the last 10 or so years. Just be aware of where you park, a little common sense goes a long way.

Please elaborate on how you got around the DESS module on your 2010.

[UtahPete]

Please elaborate on how you got around the DESS module on your 2010.

No, please don't. That's not the purpose of this thread. Thanks.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Yes, it works extremely well. UNTIL IT DOESN'T!

My story: After a full-service oil-change, etc., my dealer's steward did the usual wash job. But failed to remove the ignition key first, allowing water to run down into the switch. Upshot: No start. DESS unit shot! Replacement covered by warranty. EIGHT DAYS waiting for part delivery, no ride for 8 days! Had to arrange other transportation to get back home. And to return again after repair.

Just a regular PITA!

Interesting .... water CAN"T get into the DESS module thru the Ignition switch .... they are separated by about 14 inches and the module is SEALED ..... Something may have happened to the Antennae, but not the Module .....Mike

[Peter Aawen]

Don't know how far back it goes as my 2010 has a regular ignition key, no Dess, However any truck or car or motorcycle or............all have a dess of some sort for the last 10 or so years. Just be aware of where you park, a little common sense goes a long way.

Old Timer, your 2010 DOES have a DESS, just not one that fails often, if at all?!? I can't recall if there's been any reports of a pre 2014 DESS failure here, but maybe?? Buuut, the other side of the pre-2014 DESS performance was that the keys weren't easy to replace, and we have seen a few people having issues with that; altho the simple/non BRP approved answer to those problems is to just clone at least one of your keys BEFORE you lose any of them, & then keep a good key in a safe place... Just about any good locksmith can do that cloning for you, and here in Oz, if you buy one of their chipped blanks, get it cut & cloned by them, then the whole lot's probably not going to cost you as much as $100...

However, and more to the point of this thread, there have been quite a few reports of post 2014 DESS failures leaving people stranded at the most inopportune times, and I think those who haven't experienced this juuust might not be quite aware of how frustrating it can be to simply never know if your bike will start this time or at any time?! Once these DESS issues start, they don't go away until fixed, they just get worse - but they may not happen EVERY time you try to start your bike, at least not initially! So picture this - you go out one day & your bike doesn't start... you muck around with it for 20 minutes & suddenly it starts & all appears fine. And then it starts OK for the rest of the month. Fine, no biggie, you can work with that - only a short while later, when you're 2 days into that 10 day trip you've planned forever with your SO, it bloody well starts happening again! Only this time nothing you can do will get it going again! So 4+ hours later, you finally get a tow to the nearest dealer who puts the key in & it starts up fine immediately, and they then can't get the failure to repeat!! Same thing happens like that a few more times over the next 8 days, costing heaps & totally ruining your trip; and by the time you get home, it's juuust NOT starting at all for some hours on about every 3rd start attempt! Orright, it's obviously a dud DESS, and it only takes you 2 (or 6! ) months to convince the dealer of that & that they need to warranty it, so it's finally replaced, and things are good for a year...... until it starts happening again!

Only by now, your bikes outta warranty and they want you to pay something like $1k to fit exactly the same device that's already failed in your Spyder twice.... Do you fork out the $$ and get the replacement, or go find someone who'll turn DESS off? OK, you're worried about security, so you take the hit in the wallet... and then within a year or so, once again you're back in the world of bloody frustration that this freakin stupid DESS failure brings!! And it ALWAYS fails on you when you least want it to!! So maybe you start avoiding riding, planning shorter trips so you know you can get home if you need to, things like that. Great security system - if your bike never leaves home it'll never get stolen, right?!? . NO!! Buggrit, you bought your Spyder to RYDE, so dammit, you're gonna ryde! And off you go to meet up with a few mates, but first, you'll just stop & get one of those really great coffees/buns/rolls/whatever from that little place in the seedy neighbourhood you hafta pass thru on the way... OOPS!! Bike won't start!! Only it's really the worst possible neighbourhood for anyone to leave a bike ever, and not a great place to stay longer than it takes to pick up said coffee/whatever, so you immediately call for a tow!! And of course, Murphy jumps in - Towie arrives, & his rig is a boom rig that can't tow your Spyder without damaging it.... But there's already a bit of an ugly crowd watching, and while you really don't want to damage your Spyder by letting this boom rig pick it up &/or tow it; you just can't leave it here either! And the crowd's started to move in, sensing the desperation - your SO Pillion really doesn't want to stay here any more, so whaddaya gonna doo!! ...... if only you'd had the DESS turned off instead when you last replaced it!!!

I don't really think you can really call THAT ^^ 'security', can you?? Some might feel that there's a whole lot more 'security' in knowing that all else being equal, your Spyder WILL start whenever you turn the key and press the button; but a so called 'security system' that makes starting a gamble each and every time - is that really any safer than having a relatively low volume, easily identified, not easy to start or lift and with little real 'parting out' value machine that's not really all that attractive as a theft target??

How many Spyders have actually been stolen anyway?? Have ANY stolen Spyders been Spyders with their DESS disabled?? How many people have been REALLY put out/trips ruined &/or faced significant extra costs & difficulties thru DESS failures that could have been avoided if their DESS either worked properly or was disabled? I don't know the real answer to those first two questions, but there's been none reported here that I'm aware of; and when it comes to that last one, have you SEEN how long Deanna's DESS AGAIN ***** thread is?? There's quite a few, and I bet there's been even more not reported in that thread

Juuust Sayin'

[missouriboy]

Interesting .... water CAN"T get into the DESS module thru the Ignition switch .... they are separated by about 14 inches and the module is SEALED ..... Something may have happened to the Antennae, but not the Module .....Mike

Gosh Mike, thanks for that info. The dealer of course never did explain to me exactly what they replaced, but why would it be anything else? I recall another thread on here where someone stated that water distorts the radio signal from the key-chip. Perhaps if allowed to dry out long enough, nothing would have to be replaced? I dunno... all I know is they replaced SOMETHING, and it took 8 days to get it.

[EdMat]

How many Spyders have actually been stolen anyway?? Have ANY stolen Spyders been Spyders with their DESS disabled?? How many people have been REALLY put out/trips ruined &/or faced significant extra costs & difficulties thru DESS failures that could have been avoided if their DESS either worked properly or was disabled? I don't know the real answer to those first two questions, but there's been none reported here that I'm aware of; and when it comes to that last one, have you SEEN how long Deanna's DESS AGAIN ***** thread is?? There's quite a few, and I bet there's been even more not reported in that thread
Juuust Sayin'

Peter, you beat me to the question. Don't think the Spyder rates high on the stolen motorcycle list.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Peter, you beat me to the question. Don't think the Spyder rates high on the stolen motorcycle list.

It does if it's parked in Montreal ..... this was learned from news reports about Mtc. Gang activity ..... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Gosh Mike, thanks for that info. The dealer of course never did explain to me exactly what they replaced, but why would it be anything else? I recall another thread on here where someone stated that water distorts the radio signal from the key-chip. Perhaps if allowed to dry out long enough, nothing would have to be replaced? I dunno... all I know is they replaced SOMETHING, and it took 8 days to get it.

Well ...How much were you charged .... changing the Antennae shouldn't cost much for parts and labor .... the actual DESS module now costs about $ 150 for the part .... however the entire FRUNK has to be removed to get to it, I know I've done it. a dealer might charge $350 for labor alone .... good luck ... Mike

[Navydad]

I realize it's personal choice. I'm just wondering if 'security' factors into your thinking on this.

Being stranded a thousand miles from home factors into my thinking on this. We have an Easy Riders event here every year and every year there are nice Harley's stolen, usually from a restaurant parking lot. Security systems, ignition disablers, nor wheel locks are a problem for thieves that really want your bike. I don't know if an insurance adjuster would give me grief about DESS, but I do know he/she wouldn't give a rats butt where I am or whether my bike started or not. Something gives me problems or doesn't work as it should I get rid of it. Life's too short.

[UtahPete]

I'm beginning to think this is one of those issues, like ATGATT and carrying spare fuel, that is driven too much by emotion for there to be a rational discussion about it.

[2dogs]

Kinda comes down to this. If your DESS goes out on you away from home, at least you still have your spyder. If you disable your DESS and your spyder gets stolen then you have no spyder. Think I'll stay with the DESS. JMHO Sometimes it feels like if I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

[old Timer]

Please elaborate on how you got around the DESS module on your 2010.

My mistake, I just reread what I posted, was referring to my 2010 Tundra, just went out to check and lo and behold it must have a Dess module. Sorry about that, definitely a brain fart. Too much New Mexico Sun...