Recycling plastics (or should I say the lack of)

[Saluda]

According to recent articles, find it hard to believe the low percentages of plastics that actually get recycled. Many put a lot of effort (washing, sorting) and money (to collect it, fuel) and most of it ends up in a land fill or incinerated.
Very disappointing, why go through the motions if nothing is going to be done with it. I understand market prices but now plastics are showing up everywhere (micro plastics in our bodies).
Apparently recycling numbers in the past were only higher because certain countries like China took them but with no guarantee they were to be recycled.

[Navydad]

I have thought about the recycling thing as well. I wonder if we didn't get the cart before the horse. Folks are willing to recycle (we do) but the infrastructure just isn't there to support it? WOW, we have taken in all of this plastic, metal, etc. and we actually have no resources to recycle all of it. Going to be the same deal with the electricity thing. Forging ahead with no infrastructure to back it up.

[BajaRon]

Smoke and mirrors to make us feel good. Where I live, we have all the recycle bins. Plastic, glass, cardboard, etc. But if you hang around for after hours and watch the truck come and pick up the bins. You'll find that everything goes into the same truck. Follow that truck and you'll see it go into the landfill and dump it.

If your life depends on governments keeping their promises, be very prepared to be oft disappointed. Still, it's pretty effective as most people live their lives thinking they are making a difference. Governments have made it possible to identify as an environmentalist, without actually being one.

[UtahPete]

According to recent articles, find it hard to believe the low percentages of plastics that actually get recycled. Many put a lot of effort (washing, sorting) and money (to collect it, fuel) and most of it ends up in a land fill or incinerated.
Very disappointing, why go through the motions if nothing is going to be done with it. I understand market prices but now plastics are showing up everywhere (micro plastics in our bodies).
Apparently recycling numbers in the past were only higher because certain countries like China took them but with no guarantee they were to be recycled.

This bothers me, too. The bottom line is that private enterprise has no financial incentive to pay what it costs to deal with the issue.

[UtahPete]

Smoke and mirrors to make us feel good. Where I live, we have all the recycle bins. Plastic, glass, cardboard, etc. But if you hang around for after hours and watch the truck come and pick up the bins. You'll find that everything goes into the same truck. Follow that truck and you'll see it go into the landfill and dump it.

If your life depends on governments keeping their promises, be very prepared to be oft disappointed. Still, it's pretty effective as most people live their lives thinking they are making a difference. Governments have made it possible to identify as an environmentalist, without actually being one.

What is your solution, Ron?

[UtahPete]

I have thought about the recycling thing as well. I wonder if we didn't get the cart before the horse? Folks are willing to recycle (we do) but the infrastructure just isn't there to support it? WOW, we have taken in all of this plastic, metal, etc. and we actually have no resources to recycle all of it. Going to be the same deal with the electricity thing. Forging ahead with no infrastructure to back it up.

Yep. We didn't get into space without significant public investment. Ditto the interstate highway system. Ditto the rail system, actually.

[wyliec]

Smoke and mirrors to make us feel good. Where I live, we have all the recycle bins. Plastic, glass, cardboard, etc. But if you hang around for after hours and watch the truck come and pick up the bins. You'll find that everything goes into the same truck. Follow that truck and you'll see it go into the landfill and dump it.

If your life depends on governments keeping their promises, be very prepared to be oft disappointed. Still, it's pretty effective as most people live their lives thinking they are making a difference. Governments have made it possible to identify as an environmentalist, without actually being one.

In our area, it is recyclables one day, and the next is the garbage. Now, granted, I don't actually follow the truck, but I've been to the incineration plant where the supposed garbage goes. Across the street is where the recyclables are dropped off, and checked for garbage. I watched one day when I actually had to dump stuff off, and I was guided to the two different areas. Of course, after I left who knows what happened. Then, of course, I guess you (not really you in particular) could say the incineration plant is polluting the air or the smoke stack scrubbers don't actually work. Where does it stop? We all have are own thoughts on various subjects; that's the one thing (item) that can't be taken from us, I think.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

For years it has been cheaper to make new plastic products from raw materials than from recycled materials. Current energy prices may change that though.

As I see it, we may not be bad stewards by not recycling plastic. Put it in the landfill and in a couple hundred years fossil fuel sources may be so tight that it'll actually pay to dig up old landfills and recycle the plastic.

[Mazo EMS2]

A topic near and dear to me. I work for a plastic thermoforming company, been that for 35 yrs. Its very sad that our society is too lazy to separate recyclables from garbage, and that our infrastructure isn't setup for mass recycling. It's sad that there is such great variation in recycling laws from community to community. Plastics are very recyclable, but we're just too lazy to follow through with it. PET, the material that most drink bottles are made of, and Polypropylene are the top two plastics being used right now, and both are very easily recycled by thermoformers. The next easiest material is HDPE, the material that a lot of household chemicals detergents, lotions, soaps, gas cabs etc...All very recyclable.....All we gotta do is grind em up, reheat it and reform it....over and over.... My company does it every day all day. Generally our materials going out the door are made up of 60% recycled materials. It's either recycled process scrap internally or purchased as post-consumer resin/regrind. The unfortunate thing is that our customers have to pay MORE for recycled resins than what they would pay for virgin resins from petroleum...just because our "system" is not yet set up for clean recycling of our every-day packages. A pound of virgin resin might cost $1.50, and a pound of the same type of material that has been recycled post-consumer costs nearly $2.00/lb. Totally ass backwards from what it should be. I think we can get there, but there just seems to be bigger fish to fry in government blinded eyes. Our country is NOT educating society on the importance and ease of recycling nearly enough.

[UtahPete]

A topic near and dear to me. I work for a plastic thermoforming company, been that for 35 yrs. Its very sad that our society is too lazy to separate recyclables from garbage, and that our infrastructure isn't setup for mass recycling. It's sad that there is such great variation in recycling laws from community to community. Plastics are very recyclable, but we're just too lazy to follow through with it. PET, the material that most drink bottles are made of, and Polypropylene are the top two plastics being used right now, and both are very easily recycled by thermoformers. The next easiest material is HDPE, the material that a lot of household chemicals detergents, lotions, soaps, gas cabs etc...All very recyclable.....All we gotta do is grind em up, reheat it and reform it....over and over.... My company does it every day all day. Generally our materials going out the door are made up of 60% recycled materials. It's either recycled process scrap internally or purchased as post-consumer resin/regrind. The unfortunate thing is that our customers have to pay MORE for recycled resins than what they would pay for virgin resins from petroleum...just because our "system" is not yet set up for clean recycling of our every-day packages. A pound of virgin resin might cost $1.50, and a pound of the same type of material that has been recycled post-consumer costs nearly $2.00/lb. Totally ass backwards from what it should be. I think we can get there, but there just seems to be bigger fish to fry in government blinded eyes. Our country is NOT educating society on the importance and ease of recycling nearly enough.

I don't understand why you think government is to blame. We are a capitalist free market economy that resists attempts by government to cram regulation down our throats. We can't have it both ways.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Back in the 1970's big oil promoted recycling as a means to sell more plastic. They knew back then recycling would never really work but it sure provided an avenue for Americans to feel good. For decades big oil has been proficient at duping citizens.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/89769...ld-be-recycled

https://www.pbs.org/video/plastic-wars-8wxame/

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I don't understand why you think government is to blame. We are a capitalist free market economy that resists attempts by government to cram regulation down our throats. We can't have it both ways.

Then why do Americans think the President can control gasoline prices?

[fatboy]

because of the disrupting of supply remember not to long ago we were energy independent

[UtahPete]

Then why do Americans think the President can control gasoline prices?

It's easier to point the finger than understand the bigger picture.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

It's easier to point the finger than understand the bigger picture.

So true. Thinking rationally and objectively about an issue is hard work! Most Americans are too lazy to think hard!

[UtahPete]

So true. Thinking rationally and objectively about an issue is hard work!

Most Americans are too lazy to think hard!

I'm glad you were the one to say that. I wouldn't be able to here.

[UtahPete]

because of the disrupting of supply remember not to long ago we were energy independent

If we were energy independent (and I agree), why would our oil prices be affected by a disruption of supply in Europe?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If we were energy independent (and I agree), why would our oil prices be affected by a disruption of supply in Europe?

Oil is a world commodity. As soon as a barrel of oil comes out of the ground in the US it is part of the total world supply, not an American supply. Oil is a fungible product. An order for oil by Japan and sent to Saudi Arabia may end up being filled by American or Canadian oil which oil is then replaced by oil delivered to the US from Saudi Arabia. That is all done by brokers who buy and sell oil all over the world and execute swaps to minimize shipping costs.

[UtahPete]

Oil is a world commodity. As soon as a barrel of oil comes out of the ground in the US it is part of the total world supply, not an American supply. Oil is a fungible product. An order for oil by Japan and sent to Saudi Arabia may end up being filled by American or Canadian oil which oil is then replaced by oil delivered to the US from Saudi Arabia. That is all done by brokers who buy and sell oil all over the world and execute swaps to minimize shipping costs.

Exactly. I was waiting for someone to respond with a typical `point the finger', must be a grand conspiracy by 'they'

[Mazo EMS2]

I don't understand why you think government is to blame. We are a capitalist free market economy that resists attempts by government to cram regulation down our throats. We can't have it both ways.

Not necessarily to "blame" but there could have been much better regulations on plastics years ago to make recycling a more common practice nowadays. "Big Oil" has put the screws to us for years by manipulating the so-called "supply and demand" theory. Does anyone actually believe that a gallon of gas is actually worth $4.50 right now? But because of the lack of regulation, the rich get richer and the poor pad their pockets. Big Oil could have had huge influences years ago to push recycling, but as previously mentioned, there's not as much money in it. And here we are....If recycling was in place, we could be using all of the plastics that are currently on the face of the earth as recycles, but instead we drill for petroleum and make more virgin materials because there's more profit in it. All the petroleum used for those new virgin resins could be going toward supplying oil and gas, pushing those prices down as well. Viscous circle...I just think our governing offices could have done better for the people, instead of a few people, years ago.

[UtahPete]

Not necessarily to "blame" but there could have been much better regulations on plastics years ago to make recycling a more common practice nowadays. "Big Oil" has put the screws to us for years by manipulating the so-called "supply and demand" theory. Does anyone actually believe that a gallon of gas is actually worth $4.50 right now? But because of the lack of regulation, the rich get richer and the poor pad their pockets. Big Oil could have had huge influences years ago to push recycling, but as previously mentioned, there's not as much money in it. And here we are....If recycling was in place, we could be using all of the plastics that are currently on the face of the earth as recycles, but instead we drill for petroleum and make more virgin materials because there's more profit in it. All the petroleum used for those new virgin resins could be going toward supplying oil and gas, pushing those prices down as well. Viscous circle...I just think our governing offices could have done better for the people, instead of a few people, years ago.

Laws are passed, and regulations enforced, by those we elect. Greenies, Al Gore and the like have been trying for literally decades to get Congress to do something to address these very visible, growing concerns of pollution and climate change before an irreversible catastrophe was upon us. But WE the people, through our elected representatives, studiously ignored and actually castigated environmental activists.

We STILL do that. Frustrating just how selfish and short-sighted we are as a society. But, if it makes us feel better to blame 'others', that is our constitutional right and no-one is going to take that away from us, by gosh.

Mother nature is NOT impressed.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Sometimes I wonder why we get wrapped around the axle about environmental concerns. After all, in the end Mother Nature is going to win anyway! Humans just won't be around any longer to help her celebrate her victory!

And then sometimes I think all we may accomplish with environmental actions is delay the eventual demise of humanity by a few hundred years. Now, where's that pessimism icon!

[UtahPete]

Sometimes I wonder why we get wrapped around the axle about environmental concerns. After all, in the end Mother Nature is going to win anyway! Humans just won't be around any longer to help her celebrate her victory!

And then sometimes I think all we may accomplish with environmental actions is delay the eventual demise of humanity by a few hundred years. Now, where's that pessimism icon!

That's pretty much where I am at this point. Fatalism, not pessimism I think.

[EdMat]

Some folks look down on all the newer tighter regulations due to the fact there is not much credit given for all that has already been accomplished.

[UtahPete]

Some folks look down on all the newer tighter regulations due to the fact there is not much credit given for all that has already been accomplished.

By older regulations, you mean? I don't understand your comment but I'd like to.