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  1. #251
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerchris1270 View Post
    Anybody know the final resolve to the front pulley failure…… the permanent dealer fix?
    According to the local dealer here where I am currently in Oz (not home in SA! ) even BRP doesn't really know what the final resolution is going to be - or at least, if there's anyone there who DOES know, they ain't sayin' just yet!
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  2. #252
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    My wife's '17 RT had a fuel pump failure in June. Called a few of the somewhat local dealers, found one that could get it in the next week. I asked them to check the sprocket while it was there. They said they checked it, it qualified for replacement under the Service Notice (they did not call it a "Recall"), but a replacement sprocket was not available, so they greased it and re-installed.

    When we got it back, I needed to check some wiring that I had installed on the left side, and found the inner flange of the sprocket was off the sprocket, just riding on the shaft. I called the dealer, they said they had not noticed anything awry. I took the sprocket off and had a friend tack weld the flange in place, but only after checking with the dealer to make sure that would not affect my eligibility for sprocket replacement. They asssured me that if they had a welder in the shop, they might have done it themselves, and would be happy to present it to Can-Am as an example of what a customer had to do to keep riding.

    This is what I saw:
    IMG_7011[1].jpg

    After removing it:
    IMG_7166[1].jpg

    After welding it:
    IMG_7167[1].jpg

    Put it back in with some Honda Moly 60, torqued the bolt, went for a ride.
    So far, it's working.

    Oh, ... forgot to mention. The fuel pump was covered under the extended warranty.

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  3. #253
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    Could those tack welds affect the balance, and cause vibration?
    NEW - 2015 RT Limited SE6 Intense Red Pearl - 07/21/15
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  4. #254
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    Can Am needs to step up to this problem of their own making. I wouldn't be surprised if the over-taut drive belt was the cause.
    Occam's Razor, you know?
    2015 RT SM6

  5. #255
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azprince View Post
    Can Am needs to step up to this problem of their own making. I wouldn't be surprised if the over-taut drive belt was the cause.
    Occam's Razor, you know?
    It's of their own making only because they chose to use a splined shaft. If you Google spline shaft wear you'll find it is not an uncommon problem in industry with no end all/be all solution having been found. It's one of the best, if not the best, configuration for transmitting torque from one device to another. There just is no easy way to eliminate microscopic size gaps between the shaft and pulley splines.

    2014 Copper RTS

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    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  6. #256
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    And another lovely experience with my Can Am dealer. When the notice came out, I called in late May to make an appointment for this safety recall. We discussed that I had done my own inspection and would very much prefer to just wait bringing it in for the final repair. They agreed and we booked an appointment for this week (Sept. 7th).

    Fast forward to this week for the scheduled appointment. The day before the appointment I called to verify the parts were in: "Yes they are in." After dropping it off for the repair, I got a call later in the day from the dealership stating that the Spyder was done and it passed inspection...What? Sure enough, in spite of my best efforts to communicate, no go on the repair.

    The worst of this is after telling the dealership to keep it and just finish up the recall (parts are supposed to be in), the service manager called back a said since it passed inspection, they're done with it and will not replace the cog. His logic was that the Can Am instructions to the mechanic for the interim action said nothing about following through with replacement. So since it passed, they're done. Come pick it up.

    I'm contemplating my next actions. I'll probably have to print out the Can Am safety notice and take it to them and see if I can pry the service manager out of his position. Looks like I'll have to get BRP involved also.

    I really struggle with this dealership, but next closest is 4 hours away.
    Last edited by AtomicEd; 09-09-2022 at 10:09 AM.

  7. #257
    Very Active Member ulflyer's Avatar
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    Ed, you may know this already, but the dealers do not have whatever the parts are (presumably a new/diff front sprocket) that BRP is supposed to come up with. I was at my dealer today and asked the main mechanic and he had no information on it. My dealer has done what yours has done....check the sprocket to make sure it is ok to continue driving until such time as BRP comes up with a replacement...or whatever it is they plan to do. If your sprocket was worn they could only replace it with whatever is currently in stock at BRP distribution centers.
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  8. #258
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    My wife called our dealer today as we did receive the letter about this on her 2018 RTL. She has about 6k miles on it. She has an appt for next Friday and they told her they would do an inspection to see if there is a problem, or not. If they determine a problem, they will make the interim repair that BRP prescribes (they did not tell her what that is). If they deem not yet a problem, they said they would advise and have her come in when BRP issues the actual recall guidance (assuming, the permanent fix).

    We trust this dealer and their work.
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  9. #259
    SpyderLovers Ambassador Little Blue's Avatar
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    Default Front Sprocket

    ...I was at my Spyder Dealer yesterday and got the 'bad news'. NO SPROCKET PARTS till 2023.
    Is this a Safety Issue?
    What is this World going to do?
    Is everyone going to just roll over and play dead?

    We are not dealing with 'rocket science' are we?

    .....
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  10. #260
    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Blue View Post
    ...I was at my Spyder Dealer yesterday and got the 'bad news'. NO SPROCKET PARTS till 2023.
    Is this a Safety Issue?
    What is this World going to do?
    Is everyone going to just roll over and play dead?

    We are not dealing with 'rocket science' are we?

    .....
    Nope .. "Sprocket science" . It just seems to be experimenting from BRP..


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  11. #261
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Blue View Post
    We are not dealing with 'rocket science' are we?
    Pretty close! I just read an article that mentions even microscopic dust you can't see getting in between the splines can lead to wear and failure. IMO, this red dust problem is a much greater engineering challenge than you guys want to give it credit for. I wouldn't be surprised if the ultimate solution is planned obsolescence, i.e., replace the sprocket every so many miles.

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    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  12. #262
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    As a former Chinook Mechanic, we used a moly spline lube when fitting that kind of assembly. The purpose was to avoid damage to the parts. I know Hondas sold it for that purpose.
    BRP used to build aircraft. I think they know that. I have a tube of M77 in my garage.
    2015 RT SM6

  13. #263
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Pretty close! I just read an article that mentions even microscopic dust you can't see getting in between the splines can lead to wear and failure. IMO, this red dust problem is a much greater engineering challenge than you guys want to give it credit for. I wouldn't be surprised if the ultimate solution is planned obsolescence, i.e., replace the sprocket every so many miles.
    In the past, here on Spyderlovers I have posted references to a very good engineering document regarding fretting of splines and what is required to prevent it. Many replies it seems scoffed at it, but whatever.

    When the NHTSA recall was issued a few months ago, and after reading the intended plan, to those folks on some FB groups I suggested the owners, if skills, tools and materials allowed, accomplish their own inspections, and with that reassemble wet with moly paste.

    BRP / Can Am truly botched the pulley / sprocket fretting issue in the grandest way. Rather than go through what is happening now, they should have notified owners and dealers that the pulley / sprocket required routine maintenance, of remove, inspect and reassemble wet at prescribed mileage intervals.

    Adding to the severity, the Kluberpaste specified to use for lubricating the splines seems inadequate in regards to performance over time.

    Regardless of how few pulleys are not passing the inspections, as per what some owners and shops are stating, if all pulleys were put onto a maintenance program and not expected to last forever, this situation would be accomplished for those that had their Spyder inspected.

    The AZprince it seems also worked on helicopters / aircraft, and with that, like myself, as I have stated many times, spline inspections are a continuing inspection item. Disassembled, cleaned, inspected, lubricated and reassembled until the next inspection. It will be interesting if BRP / Rotax / Can Am do find a permanent fix that lasts the life of the vehicle, but my guess is they will not. And if the do come out with a new design pulley, what new problems will that cause?

    So far it seems they have had worn pulley splines, two piece bolt / washer setup superseded to the one piece style, pulleys that whistle and whine, pulley flanges separating from the pulley body, snapped gearbox output shafts where the pulley installs, they even increased the retaining bolt torque spec, and maybe even more.

    Long before the pulley issues became as they are today, years ago, I removed the oem pulley from our 2014 RTS. Cleaned and inspected the pulley and gearbox shaft splines. Found no red dust or wear. Then reassembled the pulley onto the shaft, wet with moly paste. Just to be certain the retaining bolt was not loosening as some folks here suggested, I went ahead and drilled the new one piece bolts head, installed it to the then current torque spec, and safety wired the bolt.

    Absolutely not concerned or worried about our pulley. Two reasons. First off, if is not part of the pulley bulletins, second, I will decide when to accomplish the removal, inspection, lube and reinstall for the next time. Likely each 10,000 miles which is every other oil change for us.

  14. #264
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azprince View Post
    Can Am needs to step up to this problem of their own making. I wouldn't be surprised if the over-taut drive belt was the cause.
    Occam's Razor, you know?

    It is the drive belt, remove the belt completely and the pulley will never wear. Honestly, the belt, whether loose, tight, or mid range merely generates the microscopic movement to induce fretting corrosion. If that movement is either stopped completely by a tapered fit or tightly pinch bolted setup, the fretting should diminish or end. Both require serious reengineering of components.

    The easy and a well accepted method to prevent fretting corrosion is assembling with a correct lubricant, and replenishing the lubricant at certain intervals.

  15. #265
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post

    BRP / Can Am truly botched the pulley / sprocket fretting issue in the grandest way. Rather than go through what is happening now, they should have notified owners and dealers that the pulley / sprocket required routine maintenance, of remove, inspect and reassemble wet at prescribed mileage intervals.
    Under FTC rules, if BRP officially updates the required maintenance schedule to add removal and lubrication of the sprocket, they would be on the hook for the cost of doing it. The maintenance schedule is part of the conditions of sale. BRP will not change the maintenance schedule for sold units.

    I suspect the BRP 'permanent' fix will be a new sprocket with some space age dry lube pre-applied that they believe will last long enough to get them out of this quagmire they are in.
    Last edited by jcthorne; 09-12-2022 at 04:33 PM.

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  16. #266
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    I suspect the BRP 'permanent' fix will be a new sprocket with some space age dry lube pre-applied that they believe will last long enough to get them out of this quagmire they are in.
    Unless I'm mistaken didn't the fretting problem show up beginning with the 2015's? Makes me wonder what changed in the manufacturing tolerances and/or the materials in 2015. Do 2020+ machines have a fretting problem since they're not part of the recall? None have been reported here. I suspect the source of the problem lies in the transmission output shaft. Maybe the splines are cut narrower, or the metal is softer than 2014, which was the first year of the 1330. That would be costly to replace for all the machines.

    I was going to compare part numbers for the gear box main shaft for 2014 and 2015+ but interestingly, there is no part # in the gear box parts diagrams for the shaft by itself, only as a gear set, for any MY beyond 2014. The gear set part # is the same for 2015 to 2022, so if there was change in 2020 it isn't reflected in a new part #.

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  17. #267
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Under FTC rules, if BRP officially updates the required maintenance schedule to add removal and lubrication of the sprocket, they would be on the hook for the cost of doing it. The maintenance schedule is part of the conditions of sale. BRP will not change the maintenance schedule for sold units.

    I suspect the BRP 'permanent' fix will be a new sprocket with some space age dry lube pre-applied that they believe will last long enough to get them out of this quagmire they are in.
    Never heard that the maintenance schedule was FTC contingent. Kind of interesting since my Toyota Tacoma transmission fluid was stated as 100,000 miles before replacement. A couple years after buying the truck, I saw bulletins dropping that to 60,000 miles, but no mention of Toyota paying for the decreased interval.

    Ironic, the dry film lube you mention, typically is moly based. FWIW, on the various splines of certain aircraft that run dry film moly vs wet applied moly, we still must remove, clean and inspect for wear / dry film lube degradation. Often reapplying as needed.

  18. #268
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Never heard that the maintenance schedule was FTC contingent.
    I wonder if that's what came into play when the timing belts in early Ford Escorts broke. Originally Ford said they were good for 60k miles but they started breaking at 40k miles. Ford replaced a lot of Escort engines with a newer design with pistons that had depressions in the top and would tolerate a broken belt. My Escort, with the newer engine, broke the belt at about 39,500 miles with no damage. Repair took about 2 hours!

    2014 Copper RTS

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    2014 RTS , Copper! (officially Cognac)

  19. #269
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    Ulflyer, as you can tell from my post above, my main issue is with my dealer and my post was mainly a venting process. I should have also checked with this forum, but I didn't. My bad. Having been told that conforming to the safety recall was a dealer decision option was unacceptable and caused some angst on my part.

    However, all is well now, at least for the time being. When I went in to pick up my Spyder, I talked to the service writer about the details of the recall. He recognized the need to replace the cog to complete the recall and placed an order for whatever the final fix will be.

  20. #270
    Very Active Member FrogmanDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve W. View Post
    This is what I saw:
    IMG_7011[1].jpg

    After removing it:
    IMG_7166[1].jpg

    After welding it:
    IMG_7167[1].jpg

    Put it back in with some Honda Moly 60, torqued the bolt, went for a ride.
    So far, it's working.
    It's a good thing you noticed that separated flange Steve. That could have led to some very serious problems including rear tire lockup. Good for you sir! I personally use Honda M77 moly since my ST1300 days. Good stuff for sure.
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  21. #271
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    Crazy thing is, I was not looking for it. After replacing the fuel pump (under warranty), some of the lights I had added were not working. I had removed the side panel to trace the wire I had added, and saw the loose flange.

    When the sprocket was removed, the flange was just a bit loose. Might have been a press-fit at one time, but it might also have been riding on the shaft for a while, wearing away on the inner edge. Made it easy to slap it back in place and weld it. Someone earlier asked if the welds might affect the balance? They are applied rather evenly (we did not measure them out, just eyeballed them) and rather small, I don't believe that balance will be a problem.

    I also have some Moly 77, but I'm waiting until I use up all my Moly 60 before breaking that open.

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  22. #272
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    Default front sprocket issue

    my dealer in Illinois said they have no replacement sprockets yet, dont know when either, brp has had computer issues.

  23. #273
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    My 2018 F3L is at my dealer since August 16th. I have 27,000 miles on my F3L and no major problems so far. I took it to the dealer for a rear tire replacement and to check noise in the front. I suspected the front sprocket problem and I was correct, it was the sprocket. They indicate it will be fixed as per the recall. It is sitting at the dealer since that date. Called them September 20th and they indicate BRP has not made the new sprocket's yet and do not know when they will be made available to them. They could not give me a date when they can fix this issue. I am thinking it will not be this year. I just hope the dealer continues to keep it inside as they indicated.

  24. #274
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NF0N View Post
    My 2018 F3L is at my dealer since August 16th. I have 27,000 miles on my F3L and no major problems so far. I took it to the dealer for a rear tire replacement and to check noise in the front. I suspected the front sprocket problem and I was correct, it was the sprocket. They indicate it will be fixed as per the recall. It is sitting at the dealer since that date. Called them September 20th and they indicate BRP has not made the new sprocket's yet and do not know when they will be made available to them. They could not give me a date when they can fix this issue. I am thinking it will not be this year. I just hope the dealer continues to keep it inside as they indicated.
    Why is it sitting there?? . As far as I can see from the recall docs, there IS an Interim Fix available & they should do that so you can be back on the streets ryding until the permanent fix becomes available, cos there's no knowing when that might happen!

    I think your dealer is just being lazy & trying to save a few dollars by not bothering to do the Interim Fix in order to get you back on the road for now; but they are doing this AT YOUR RYDING EXPENSE! If you do a search & a bit of reading, there are more than 'just a couple' of others out there who've got Spyders that failed the 'pulley rotation test', but their dealers did what the Recall Doc said, and applied the Interim Fix for them, so they're out there ryding as I type!!

    Your Dealer's just being a penny pinching git! I'd be telling 'em they're slack barstewards & to pull their finger out, do what it takes to get you back on the road ASAP, & then do the Permanent Fix as & when it becomes available down track some time!

    But then I'm a bit like that....
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  25. #275
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    If they don't do the fix in a reasonable time I would ask for loss of use or a loaner. both will xost the dealer more.
    2011 rt , pearl white

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