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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Default 2009 Front Sprocket - WHAT shape are the teeth on the shaft?

    Good morning all , I have a question about the front sprocket on my 09 GS 990 ES. last time I had it out I noticed a ratcheting sound when down shifting in first and second gear. I adjusted the rear wheel enough to slip the drive belt off. I then realized the teeth on the front sprocket were stripped. My question on is the shaft, WHAT is the shape of the teeth on the shaft. The sprocket will only go on one way, there is a squared off tooth and the rest come to a point . Guess I'm looking to find out if I just need to replace the sprocket or the shaft also. Can't find a good picture of a shaft to compare mine to. I will order a new sprocket for sure... that might help. Thanks for any help.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:17 AM. Reason: their - there ;-)
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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Good morning all , I have a question about the front sprocket on my 09 GS 990 ES. last time I had it out I noticed a ratcheting sound when down shifting in first and second gear. I adjusted the rear wheel enough to slip the drive belt off. I then realized the teeth on the front sprocket were stripped. My question on is the shaft, WHAT is the shape of the teeth on the shaft. The sprocket will only go on one way, there is a squared off tooth and the rest come to a point . Guess I'm looking to find out if I just need to replace the sprocket or the shaft also. Can't find a good picture of a shaft to compare mine to. I will order a new sprocket for sure... that might help. Thanks for any help.
    A picture is worth a thousand words..... and your explanation is about 925 short ..... At this point a pic is necessary to know exactly what you're dealing with ..... The current issue with sprockets is the RED DUST ( ie.fretting ) this wasn't an issue for Spyders prior to 2015 ( F-3's ) which has now included all Spyders from 17 and up. ..... help us to help you ..... Mike ....PS how many miles do you have on your GS???? - and did you ever lower the belt tension from BRP specs???? .....excessive tension will have an effect on both the Belt and the sprockets.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Fixed quote display & your - you're ;-)

  3. #3
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    It's been a problem since day 2 as you will now recall BN - reply 24.

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...26#post1617226

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...t+BRP+Bulletin
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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    20220514_213002.jpg

    20220514_213150.jpg

    Don't like the looks of the teeth on the shaft Freddy. Looked at the pictures on the other post... wished mine looked that good. Not sure if the pictures I up loaded came in. I think it did work? One tooth is square and the rest come to a point...
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2022 at 02:54 AM. Reason: Fixed attach display
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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    I have 20,800 klm's on the bike. The shop put a new rear tire on it last year and all I ever did was adjust the belt to run in the right spot.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2022 at 02:56 AM. Reason: Fixed caps & spaces
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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    It's been a problem since day 2 as you will now recall BN - reply 24.

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...26#post1617226

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...t+BRP+Bulletin
    Thanks for your post ..... I didn't mention the fact that in the beginning of the Spyders .... the tension spec was very high, and BRP soon discovered that this was causing sprocket issues, both for tooth wear and shaft damage ..... RED Dust ie.fretting was not an issue at that time ..... Mike
    Last edited by BLUEKNIGHT911; 05-15-2022 at 10:43 PM.

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    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    The tension spec on the pulley bolt was very low, that's why they increased it a couple of times. Red dust was an issue way back then.

    A pity about the shaft splines Gilly. It should be replaced really, but at least one pulley, as I recall, has been welded on to avoid the huge cost.

    I have over 100,000km on mine. I fitted a new bolt and torqued it to 115ftlb when I got the trike.
    Last edited by Freddy; 05-16-2022 at 04:11 AM. Reason: sould = should ;-)
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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Freddy ... welding was a thought - Sprocket and shaft being toast. I've seen the service bulletin reading 81 to 89 ft/lb for the bolt. I will phone the shop today and get a price on parts and labor. I will need to find the NEW belt tension specs also.
    I will scare you with a price later. Thank you both for the info. Have a great day and be safe.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:21 AM. Reason: e' '. - e. ;-)
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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Well guys... I called the shop this morning - the sprocket is $173.39; the Shaft with seal is $397.29; The labor is 10 - 12 hours @ $105 per hour; plus any gaskets that are needed. Of course, the engine has to come out. Looking at just over $2200 plus.
    The welder is starting to look better and better. I think Freddy you said to put a new sprocket on, then weld it on??? Have to look at all my options.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:23 AM. Reason: s' '. - s. ;-)
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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well guys... I called the shop this morning - the sprocket is $173.39; the Shaft with seal is $397.29; The labor is 10 - 12 hours @ $105 per hour; plus any gaskets that are needed. Of course, the engine has to come out. Looking at just over $2200 plus.
    The welder is starting to look better and better. I think Freddy you said to put a new sprocket on, then weld it on??? Have to look at all my options.
    I don't know that it was Freddy who did this, but certainly there have been some reports here on the Forum of this being done, and AFAIK there's been no followup reports of any issues....

    Still, while it certainly does look as tho your Spyder's output shaft has taken a beating & is no longer in good nick, I can but wonder if it might not be a tad smarter to try just fitting a new sprocket first, albeit with the addition of some sort of filler/adhesive/shock resistant material to the mating splines?! . At least that way you stand a chance that it might work & it won't necessarily have forced you straight into an expensive strip down & replace job right off the bat?!? . That's always been one of the guidelines I've used for any bush mechanical work &/or dodgying up a fix that I've done (& there's been a lot of that! ) - Always try not to do anything irreversible on your first attempt!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:24 AM. Reason: Fixed quote display
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    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    10 to 12 hours for the job would be a huge challenge even for a brilliant mechanic like me.

    Mine is not welded as it never had a chance to get loose at the higher torque on a new bolt. Peter's suggestion on new pulley and bolt s worth a try. I would use Loctite 660. Welding is a last resort but it's been done before.
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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    If I bite the bullet and get it done right, I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. Bolt at 115ftlb's and need to find the tension for the belt. (New sprocket $200 tax inc.)
    As far as the 10 - 12 hours... that's what I was told.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:26 AM. Reason: d' '. - d.
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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    If I bite the bullet and get it done right, I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. Bolt at 115ftlb's and need to find the tension for the belt. (New sprocket $200 tax inc.)
    As far as the 10 - 12 hours... that's what I was told.
    Most folks here have lowered the BRP tension specs by quite a bit ..... early Spyders had a lot of SHAFT damage due to overly high tension .... I lowered mine to 160 lbs. measured with a KritKit II guage ... with the rear wheel on-the-ground ... this is equal to lbs. needed for OFF-the Ground measurements ..... good luck .... Mike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:25 AM. Reason: Fixed quote display

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    Active Member Piratezz's Avatar
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    My two cents worth, Try a new sprocket first, with a sticky lube (as Peter stated), welding is really a last resort, it would make the next sprocket change a lot harder, even impossible without destroying the oilseals, that would be really expensive.
    Find a shop who specialize in gearboxes and shafts, they for sure would know what lube, or material you could use, to spruce up the worn splines, mayby a thin sheet of copper, to fill the gaps.
    the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it........

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    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    12 hrs is what the BRP book probably says. I would double it and expect the person doing it to regret they ever got involved.

    Over tight belt also caused the driven pulley bearing to flog the bore it fits into, causing it to be loose. This can be checked by grabbing the big pulley at 12 and 6 o'clock and see if wobbles a little, which it should not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Thanks for your post ..... I didn't mention the fact that in the beginning of the Spyders .... the tension spec was very high, and BRP soon discovered that this was causing sprocket issues, both for tooth wear and shaft damage ..... RED Dust ie. fretting was not an issue at that time ..... Mike

    I had my Spyder in for service two weeks ago - 2017 F3-Limited. The guy came out and mentioned the dreaded red dust and said the sprockets for 2017 were problematic and mine was ready to fail. I had 20K on it. Once the front sprocket is replaced, does that reliability issue go away, or I am stuck with it since I have a 2017 model?

    Thanks in advance for any information.
    Jim
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Fixed quote display

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimH View Post
    I had my Spyder in for service two weeks ago - 2017 F3-Limited. The guy came out and mentioned the dreaded red dust and said the sprockets for 2017 were problematic and mine was ready to fail. I had 20K on it. Once the front sprocket is replaced, does that reliability issue go away, or I am stuck with it since I have a 2017 model?

    Thanks in advance for any information.
    Jim
    I try to read every post concerning " Red Dust " .... so far BRP -NEW - WHITE drive pulley was ONLY to fix a Whine sound issue ..... the NEW ones are failing at about the same rate .... F-3's seem to be worse , but it also now effects the newer RT's. .... I have a 14 RT w/ 66,000 mi. and no Red Dust and I have NO intention of touching it ..... good luck .... Mike

  18. #18
    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Ok guys, my new sprocket was ordered today. If they put an order in today, I could see it Friday. If not ordered until tomorrow, I will see it Tuesday. I was told a bolt and washer comes with the new sprocket . " FINGERS CROSSED "
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-17-2022 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Clarified 2nd/3rd sentence
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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Freddy ... the big pulley you're talking about, is that the one on the rear wheel? And if so, is it the double row bearing that the pulley rides? If so, I will order it and the seal for it.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-17-2022 at 07:47 PM. Reason: pully = pulley ;-)
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    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Yes. You may need loctite 660 to fix it if it's loose in the bore.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

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    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Freddy, I see you put 115ftlbs on the NEW bolt and washer. What are you putting for tension on YOUR belt? I had a machinist come over last night and after a long discussion, he talked me into doing it the RIGHT way. It will be going in the shop on Tuesday. I want to get all the facts so this does not happen again. Thank you ALL for your help and your input.
    I hope this experience helps others, as I knew nothing about this til it was too late.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:30 AM. Reason: dose - does
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    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    I don't recall what tension the belt has. I haven't needed to check it for some years. I'm sure though, it would be at the low end of the spec. I'll dig out my Krickit later and check it.

    So I gather you're going to have it stripped down to replace the shaft - correct?
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  23. #23
    Active Member Gilly's Avatar
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    Yes ... I will have it stripped down and done right. Parts that need to be replaced, have been ordered. (those we know of) I really do enjoy this ride, got my bike license before my car license. That was 47 years ago, and have never driven anything like it. I just hope it all works out as planned.
    And... Thanks again Freddy for your help... it is much very much appreciated.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:32 AM. Reason: planed - planned + t' '. - t.
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    Active Member Piratezz's Avatar
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    You are going the right way about it, The spyder will reward you, with lotsa Miles and Smiles. Also the reliability in your head, the trust you have in the machine, will elevate from this...
    As Peter always says, Ride More, Worry Less
    the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it........

    Spyder F3s 2019 All Black ( Named it: Brutus)
    Carbon Items added, just for looks
    Upgraded Shocks Trac-Tive, Rear hi/lo and rebound adjustable, with Hydraulic Pre-Load adjuster
    fronts hi/lo and rebound adjustable, custom made by the Trac-Tive Guru's
    Swaybar (Ron's)
    Tyres Front Michelin Cross Climate+ 175/60-15
    Rear, for 2022 still a Kenda, next Yokohama Advan Fleva 205/55R15
    Exhaust Bone stock, with a RLS Cat- Delete
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  25. #25
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Mine's about 180lb on the ground with Krikit II.
    Last edited by Freddy; 05-21-2022 at 07:24 AM.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

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