Will Using 87 Octane impact performance?

[crtsteve55]

All
Doing a 600 mile, many overnights, trip with our new (to us) 2013 Spyder ST/S the first of April. Wondering if using 87 Octane gas vs. 91 will change the performance during this trip. I think it was recommended either in owner manual or I picked up on the web to use 91. It will help on the money side a bit. Also this bike’s fuel gauge is off some. When it shows a half tank I put more than 3 gallons in to top off. Has anyone run into this with their gauge?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

May I kindly suggest you do a search here using key words like octane, regular, and premium. You'll read so many opinions and observations in every which direction you'll have just as much a question mark in your mind then as you do now. There is NO consensus as what is best, other than do what you are comfortable with yourself. I'll just say your engine can live with 87 octane.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

May I kindly suggest you do a search here using key words like octane, regular, and premium. You'll read so many opinions and observations in every which direction you'll have just as much a question mark in your mind then as you do now. There is NO consensus as what is best, other than do what you are comfortable with yourself. I'll just say your engine can live with 87 octane.

... I had two V-twin engine Spyders ( like yours are ) .... I only used 87 w/ethyl , and they both ran great ..... I still use 87 w/ethyl in 1330 engine ... it works great ..... Mike

[Big F]

I am on my 5th Spyder and I have run a check on each one using 91 octane vs. 87 octane and found there is absolutely NO difference on the MPG using either gas.. and yes, I know there are some owners that swear they get better mileage using 91 octane but feel that is not a true statement..
wish you the best on being a Spyder owner and ride safe.
BIG F

[Big F]

IdahoMtnSpyder said it all.. I'm on my 5th Spyder since 2010 and used 87 octane in all of them with NO PROBLEMS!
BIG F

[Bfromla]

87 is minimum & ok; ethanol free harder to find & better. caution on topping off the tank, can kill the evap purge valve use trip meters will help let you know your average mpg gauge floats can stick ,hi or low side. Tank supposed to be 6gallon.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

87 is minimum & ok; ethanol free harder to find & better. caution on topping off the tank, can kill the evap purge valve use trip meters will help let you know your average mpg gauge floats can stick ,hi or low side. Tank supposed to be 6gallon.

about fixing the " Purge Valve " problem ..... I have pics in an Album I posted on my BIO page .... It is simple, in-expensive and it works ..... Mike

[Joel The Biker]

I run 87 octane when doing long trips on the highway and 91 for our local rides.

[shardt]

I just put in 87 last fill up as I read that it would be ok at low alt and not on hot days, we are only at about 400 feet here and was about 68 out. Went for about a 60 mile ride and stopped at a boat landing for a view. Leaving the parking lot it has a steep grade and I stopped at the top before entering the main road. On take off I got pre detonation pining for the first time since I got it. So it is back to 91 for me.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just put in 87 last fill up as I read that it would be ok at low alt and not on hot days, we are only at about 400 feet here and was about 68 out. Went for about a 60 mile ride and stopped at a boat landing for a view. Leaving the parking lot it has a steep grade and I stopped at the top before entering the main road. On take off I got pre detonation pining for the first time since I got it. So it is back to 91 for me.

If you are having " pinging " ( and I doubt it ) ... there is something wrong with your Spyder !!!, and it needs to be fixed.... " shouldn't drive it on HOT days " ( with 87 0ct. ) Baloney ,,, I have driven my 14 RT at 115-F with no issues .... I'm sure folks in Az. do it on a regular basis. .... good luck .... Mike

[teninospyder]

If you are having " pinging " ( and I doubt it ) ... there is something wrong with your Spyder !!!, and it needs to be fixed.... " shouldn't drive it on HOT days " ( with 87 0ct. ) Baloney ,,, I have driven my 14 RT at 115-F with no issues .... I'm sure folks in Az. do it on a regular basis. .... good luck .... Mike

I agree with BK and most others. 50000 miles+ total now on our 2014 RTL, running on nothing but regular since probably 15000 miles (when I didn't know better) . Country roads, hills and valleys, mountain peak runs, ocean salt air, No issues at all, except for more money in my pocket now to use for next ride !!

[ARtraveler]

Bottom line...your Spyder (any year) will run just fine on 87 with or without 10% ethanol.

The efi system adjusts and unless you are an astute mechanic, most will not notice any difference.

I and others speak from experience. I have used it in all my machines from 2011 and up. I still do. No issues, no mechanical glitches.

As IdahoMtnSpyder suggests, there are many posts and threads about this very subject.

[Big F]

I am on my 4th Spyder over the past 12 years and used 87 octane in every one of them without any issues.. I have even checked the gas mileage using both 87 and 91 octane and did not find any variance. Some of the Sypder owners in our riding club insist on 91 octane and are constantly looking for a station that has it???
Just keep on riding and ride safely.
BIG F

[Big F]

I've had 5 Spyders over the years and tested each one with the 87 vs 91 octane and there was absolutely no difference in performance or MPG, etc. on all of them!
My present 2023 RT Limited runs like a dream on 87 octane.
BIG F

[2dogs]

Similar happened to me after using 91. I filled up with 87 and I experienced some pre donations on standing take-offs from stops. The computer takes a while to adjust to the change in octane. No big deal. Just don't goose it for a while after switching from 91 to 87. Not to worry, they'll both work fine in your stock 1330.

[BazF]

My 10 cents worth.
I always used 98 (Australia), sometimes 95, never had a problem.
I decided to go to 91 after reading posts here.
I started to get 'hesitating' and slight surging. I was riding into a head wind and put it down to that On the return journey I had the same situation with a following wind. I was low on fuel.
I topped up with 98, within a few k's the bike smoothed out and ran well. No more problems.
Just my experience.
Baz

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

My 10 cents worth.
I always used 98 (Australia), sometimes 95, never had a problem.
I decided to go to 91 after reading posts here.
I started to get 'hesitating' and slight surging. I was riding into a head wind and put it down to that On the return journey I had the same situation with a following wind. I was low on fuel.
I topped up with 98, within a few k's the bike smoothed out and ran well. No more problems.
Just my experience.
Baz

You do realize , your Octane values are measured differently than in the U.S. ...... justsayin ..... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

My 10 cents worth.
I always used 98 (Australia), sometimes 95, never had a problem.
I decided to go to 91 after reading posts here.
I started to get 'hesitating' and slight surging. I was riding into a head wind and put it down to that On the return journey I had the same situation with a following wind. I was low on fuel.
I topped up with 98, within a few k's the bike smoothed out and ran well. No more problems.
Just my experience.
Baz

I can certainly identify with that experience, Baz! . I've had similar experience here in South Oz, so I generally run 95 or 98 - altho I do find I get the best fuel economy on 95, especially in those instances the distance travelled will make that a significant concern... and maybe not quite to the same extent as most of WA, but we do still have a lot of those loooong gaps between servos! . Sure, I can run 91 if there's no alternative, but if I do then I REALLY hafta be careful & go lightly on the throttle or the engine'll knock like a dunny door blowing around in a Force 10 gale!

I wonder if the clear degradation & knock issues that we see when running lower octane fuel here in Oz vs those having no issues when doing that in North America has something to do with our 'general ambient temperature' (are they that much different??) or is it for some other reason?

And just for reference sake & the edification of those who may not be aware, our Fuel Octane rating here in Oz uses RON as opposed to the 'Average Knock Indicator = RON/MON ÷ 2 or whatever' method that's used in the States - so our 91 equates loosely to US 87; our 95 to US 91 (or is it 93??); & our 98 to US 95 - or there-abouts.

[crtsteve55]

Thanks

[mecsw500]

I think Australia uses the European method for octane rating calculation, not the averaging mechanism used in North America. The European rating is numerically higher that North America for the same gas/petrol.

Also, it depends on where the rider is at altitude. Here at 5,000 feet in the Western US 91 octane is considered premium rather that 93-95 at sea level. I imagine Australia is largely sea level.

So just beware when reading octane ratings from North American riders, it's not the same as in most of the rest of the world from what I can tell.

[Peter Aawen]

I think Australia uses the same RON method as most of the rest of the World for octane rating calculation, not the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2 averaging mechanism used effectively only in North America (Canada, USA, Mexico). The RON rating used by most of the rest of the World is numerically higher than the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2 used in North America for the same gas/petrol.

Also, it depends on where the rider is at altitude. Here at 5,000 feet in the Western US 91 octane is considered premium rather that 93-95 at sea level. I imagine Australia is largely sea level - Australian Continent Average Elevation = 330m; Highest Mountain on Australian Continent = Mt Kosciuszko @ 2228m; Highest External Territories Mountain = Mt McClintock @ 3490m; Australian Antarctic Territory Western Sector has Ice Domes exceeding 4000m

So just beware when reading octane ratings from North American riders, it's not the same as in most of the rest of the world from what I can tell.

Fixed it for you mecsw ^^

You are absolutely correct in your last sentence above (in your quote) - most of the rest of the World uses RON Octane Ratings (RON = Research Octane Number) while North America (Canada, USA, & Mexico) use the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2 method, ie. RON + MON divided by 2.

MON = Motor Octane Number, similar to RON only using pre-heated fuel & variable ignition timing to further stress knock resistance...

[mecsw500]

Peter ^^^^^^

Thank you for the additions.

I presumed Australia would be like the rest of the world. From my trips to Australia I was pretty sure there weren't many gas/petrol stations at 5,000 feet/1500 meters (metres).

I was very confused to understand why US bikes got less mpg than ones in the UK until I found out the US gallon was smaller than the Imperial Gallon. Duh.

I do know that not all gasoline/petrol is the same even when countries use an equivalent octane rating. The parts per million of sulphur content varies greatly from country to country allowing or not allowing vehicles with emission standards engines from E3 to E6 ratings to run without emissions equipment damage.

In some countries running a lower octane fuel may have a higher sulphur content which may in turn damage the emissions equipment. The US mandates < 20 ppm of sulphur for all grades I think, whereas I believe Australia allows many, many times this amount. So if you are running an E5 compliant engine and your mid grade or lower fuel has a high sulphur content your emissions equipment such as the CAT may suffer as a consequence.

So depending upon where you are geographically, the altitude, the octane rating, the fuel sulphur content and the Euro rated engine compliance specification (which is dependent on the age of your Spyder, I think they are now E5) may all be factors you want to consider, and pinging may not be the only damage that might occur to your overall engine package from your fuel.

Nothing's ever simple.

[mecsw500]

Need to be aware that North America uses the average of MON+RON ratings (also know as AKI = (MON+RON)/2). I think Australia like the EU uses just the RON rating (or E10 perhaps). 91 to 94 octane in North America is premium (94 most places, 91 here at 5,000+ feet). I think if you are running 91 RON octane in Australia I think you are running way too low a grade as that would be like 87 or 85 AKI rating here in North America.

Note grade has nothing to do with quality, it's just that higher octane ratings burn with a slower flame front for higher compression engines. Most gas/petrol here in the North America is both unleaded and 10% Ethanol. You can find Ethanol free but it costs a lot more. After many, many years of running both older and new vehicles on both unleaded and 10 % Ethanol fuel I've never had any problems. I run my 2022 Spyder RT LTD on 91 AKI octane 10% Ethanol with no issues, but I live at 5,000 feet so 91 AKI octane is rated as premium as the 15% lower air density doesn't require has high an AKI rating. I doubt anywhere in Australia worries about altitude for the RON octane rating required. If I lived at sea level I would probably run whatever premium is there, usually 94 AKI.

I think using 98 RON octane in Australia is also better for your catalytic converter as that's 50 parts per million sulfur/sulphur rather than the 150 part per million of 91 RON octane. Compared with Europe, Australian gas/petrol seems to be rated for E3 and E4 emissions vehicles, unlike the E6 ratings now found on European vehicles. Australia's gas/petrol does seem to have very high Sulfur/Sulphur content.

You mileage may vary, of course in this case quite literally.

[Peter Aawen]

Need to be aware that North America uses the average of MON+RON ratings (also know as AKI = (MON+RON)/2). I think Australia like the EU uses just the RON rating (or E10 perhaps). 91 to 94 octane in North America is premium (94 most places, 91 here at 5,000+ feet). I think if you are running 91 RON octane in Australia I think you are running way too low a grade as that would be like 87 or 85 AKI rating here in North America.

... snip .... I doubt anywhere in Australia worries about altitude for the RON octane rating required. If I lived at sea level I would probably run whatever premium is there, usually 94 AKI.

....

As nhoj quoted in post #182 earlier,

Recommended Fuel
Use premium unleaded gasoline with
an AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of
91, or an RON octane rating of 95.

here in Oz, where our 'Standard' ULP is 91 RON (basically equivalent to your 85 or 87 AKI over there) the Recommended fuel for Spyders is 95 RON, altho they will 'run' on our 91... just not so well. Both 95 & 98 RON are considered 'Premium' over here, AND we can have Ethanol added to our fuel too. Usually the Ethanol stuff is somewhat cheaper than the 'equivalent' non-ethanol gas, and anything under 10% doesn't need to be stated/declared at retail selling points but is often clearly identifiable by the lower price; while anything 10% or over must be clearly labelled & identified; and we can get up to E85, which is usually only used in specially manufactured & appropriately tuned vehicles!

Back to the good stuff - before I got the ECU Upgrade done on my V-Twin RT, it would run 'OK' on our 91 RON, but it did get noticeably better milage & performance on 95 or 98 RON (I run log-books, & meticulously track all of this sorta stuff & more! ) After the ECU Upgrade, the high revving high compression V-Twin really only just 'tolerates' 91 RON, and full throttle applications are not enjoyable for me or the engine, so it's an 'only in emergencies' thing now!! But the RT still runs as perfectly as I can measure on 95 RON; and the only time 98 makes ANY measurable difference that I can detect (apart from to my wallet! ) is on the track, where there's a measurable performance gain - not a massive gain, but it IS measurable, even with just a stop-watch!

Altho anywhere but the track, there's just no point for me in running 98 RON, cos not only is 98 RON significantly more expensive than 95 RON, but there's just NO milage advantage; in fact, for me/my Spyder/its tune, there's a penalty - when I'm just cruising along & staying within the speed limit on 95 RON, I'll reliably get 38-40 mpg for tank after tank; cruising the same distances/speeds/roads on 98 RON, I NEVER get better than 35 mpg, and usually won't get better than about 31-32 mpg... So when you consider that our 'usual cruises/trips' are at least 1000 km one way, and that we're paying a bit over $2.00 per litre for 95 RON & at least 20-25 cents per litre more than that for 98 RON (often more!) - the less range I get from 98 RON not only puts us at risk of running out of gas between some of the servo's (that are frequently 320 km/200 or so miles apart in our wide open spaces) but it also adds the need for an extra couple of tanks full of gas to do that sorta trip length, and ALL THAT means that if I'm running 98 RON, we hafta carry extra gas &/or it costs something like an extra $100 just to get there!!

So I run 95 RON whenever I can, apart from on the occasional track day where I am chasing the last smidgeon of extra performance.

Ps: We do have lower emission standards here than in Europe & many other countries, so we don't always get the latest & 'greatest' models of vehicles & our fuel isn't always of the highest quality when it comes to emissions etc. And we DO have some areas where 'high altitude' &/or 'Alpine Fuel' is not only a good idea, but in certain times of the year, it's essential - sure, our Great Dividing Range isn't anywhere near as high as the Rockies or many of the North American 'high altitudes', but they are high enough, and extensive enough too! Besides, in most of our higher reaches, we've got the added issue of dealing with high ambient temps for much of the year too; so we don't get any benefit from the colder & therefore denser/better oxygen content per cylinder you generally get over there as you climb!! So 'Alpine Fuel' is actually a pretty big thing here, even if the majority of the population is never impacted or even aware of it!

[Schreckftw]

From what I notice, a lot depends on your riding style. You will not hear the knocking in a newer engine as stated in this chat. Your Spyder will adjust the timing etc. to compensate. The 1330 is high compression and if your riding style lands you in the 29-34+ MPG camp I would say you are not going to notice. If however your average MPG is around 22-24 because of an aggressive riding style then you might notice a slight performance downgrade. There is only so much spark and timing it can compensate for.