Gasoline question - will Regular harm the Spyder?

[Knizar]

[bikerchris1270]

We spend $25000-$30000 on a TOY…….I’ll stick with the best available Tier 1 fuel without Ethanol.
https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

[Little Blue]

We spend $25000-$30000 on a TOY…….I’ll stick with the best available.

My Tip: Don't buy 'ANY TOY' with a gasoline engine unless you can pay for the Gas/Maintenance.

Have yourself a great time. ........

[troop]

The OP has stated the following:

Not other rider's "opinions or preferences" Thank you. He wants mechanics and experts to answer this one.

Let's keep the comments to what the OP wants.

Many chances to get into a flaming gas war here. I am not going to reply to the question.

I just know what I do and it works for me. Been a Spyder owner since they came out (2008), and owned a total of seven. Almost 200,000 Spyder miles. What I do works for me. Have not had a spyder blow up or disintegrate, or need major engine repairs. I am going to keep on doing what I do. PS. I don't follow the manual(a).

Mechanics and experts? Does anyone on this site actually no more than the BRP/Rotax engineers who designed the 1330cc motor? Yes, the manual RECOMMENDS 91 octane fuel. NO WHERE in the manual does it say "minimum 91 octane required". In what world would the legalize folks of BRP state "a minimum of 87 octane" if they thought it would harm the motor? Why would BRP want to pay the cost of motor repairs if caused by 87 octane fuel? I'm sure all this would only apply to a STOCK 1330cc motor. Cat deletes? Aftermarket exhausts or intakes? FI changes? Nope .. All bets would be off with BRP.

[spyder01]

Being a fully certified technician for 30 years you develop a certain feel for the engine and whats going on inside of it. My Spyders 1330 engine has told me that its fine with 87 octane out on the highway just cruising. But lower speed more spirited, twisty or mountainous driving on hot days it wants higher octane. I always listen to what its telling me.

[SkipH]

Being a fully certified technician for 30 years you develop a certain feel for the engine and whats going on inside of it. My Spyders 1330 engine has told me that its fine with 87 octane out on the highway just cruising. But lower speed more spirited, twisty or mountainous driving on hot days it wants higher octane. I always listen to what its telling me.

What happens when you go up in altitude and there is only 85 octane regular?

[BertRemington]

The 1330cc engine control response is retard the spark and adjust the AFR to compensate as best it can. Your response is to drive less aggressively, shift into a lower (higher-revving) gear and monitor the temperature gauge.

[KnurledNut]

This is from my Ryker manual, which is a Can-Am product.

I don't believe the Spyder is the same as it has a different motor.

RYKER_FUEL.jpg

[Baron14y]

I'm a bottom line type guy.
Premium fuel generally runs about 10 cents a gallon over midgrade and 15 - 20 over the base.

Lets say the Spyder gets 30 miles per gallon.
Over 100,000 miles - you will burn 3333 1/3 gallons of fuel.
Premium will cost you an additional $333 to $666 over that 100k miles. Or for most riders a savings of a whole $25 to $40 a year. So on your $30,000 bike - you decide.
Ill be running premium in mine.

Around here, it is about $.50 - $.55 more per gallon.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This is from my Ryker manual, which is a Can-Am product.

I don't believe the Spyder is the same as it has a different motor.

RYKER_FUEL.jpg

Interesting that BRP starts with - REGULAR 87 ..... then says you can use Premium ..... My RT gets 87 only ..... Mike

[SportsterDoc]

Interesting that BRP starts with - REGULAR 87 ..... then says you can use Premium ..... My RT gets 87 only ..... Mike

Most likely using higher octane allows for maximum spark advance = longer burn time / more efficiency / more power...using lower octane has no issues with harming engine, as the knock sensor will retard timing, as necessary.

[SportsterDoc]

What happens when you go up in altitude and there is only 85 octane regular?

Higher altitude results in less dense air, so less air compressed into the cylinders, corresponding to a lower compression ratio, which requires less octane.
Therefore, not an issue.
May be an issue with 85 in the tank at lower elevation.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What happens when you go up in altitude and there is only 85 octane regular?

? ? ? .....I don't Think 85 octane is even sold in the US ...... jmho .... Mike

[Knizar]

? ? ? .....I don't Think 85 octane is even sold in the US ...... jmho .... Mike

We have E-85 here in Minnesota.

[BertRemington]

Many states with populations at higher altitudes (I can't find an exact number but it seems to be 4,000ft) like Nevada derate their octane on offer by typically 2 points (ie, 87 becomes 85). So 85 is not an issue as SportsterDoc described above.

However the air is less dense so cylinder filling will be less and the Spyder engine control will compensate by injecting less gasoline. The result is, per Ford (and other OEMs) "Gasoline engines lose power by 3-4% per 1,000 ft. elevation. To maintain performance, reduce GVWs and GCWs by 2% percent per 1,000 ft. elevation."

So your throttle opening will be larger to obtain sea level performance and you'll probably want to keep engine RPM around 4K, which is the basis of my guidance above. At very high altitudes (think Pikes Peak in Colorado Springs) your cooling performance will be reduced too, although the Spyder seems to have excellent reserve capacity.

When I took my naturally-aspirated track Mustang to Reno-Fernley, it was sucking wind while the turbo guys flashed on by.

And don't worry about 85 octane when you return to lower altitudes because, as SportsterDoc described above, the Spyder engine control will adapt (again with lower performance because the spark will be retarded). Refill with your preference at your leisure.

Please note all these responses are based on an unmodified engine control with stock exhaust system (Power Commander/Pedal Box don't modify the engine control).

[SportsterDoc]

PMK: "Higher altitude results in less dense air, so less air compressed into the cylinders, corresponding to a lower compression ratio, which requires less octane."

Less air compressed corresponds to or has the same effect as a lower compression ratio.. I did not state that it changed the compression ratio.

Please advise if you need further clarification.

[BajaRon]

This question has actually been answered many times over the years.

1. Will regular octane fuel hurt your Spyder (Rotax) Engine? - No. It will not.
2. Which fuel octane is best for the Spyder? - Premium is best.
3. Why is premium best.
The Rotax engine is a high compression, high performance powerplant. Under some conditions, (Heavy loads. Steep grades. High ambient temps. Hard riding. High RPM). Lower octane can, and probably will, pre-ignite (knock). To prevent this, the on board computer can sense this condition before it occurs and will retard ignition timing to prevent this dangerous and destructive pre-ignition issue. The engine is completely protected, which is the 'Why' to answer #1. But retarding the ignition reduces power output and will decrease fuel mileage.

People say they notice no difference. Can't argue with that. But on a 6,000 mile cross country trip on my 998 Spyder. I averaged 3+ MPG better on Premium than I did on Regular. That's about a 10% difference. I kept very accurate records and did not count transition tanks of fuel (when I would switch from one grade to the next).

I wish I could have done this test with non-ethanol fuel. I think I would have gotten even better results.

[VegasDan]

Around here, it is about $.50 - $.55 more per gallon.

If $1,500 difference over a 100,000 mile term is a deal breaker - it's your bike and your choice - and perhaps you're 100% correct.

But...
Premium fuel runs cleaner, provides better mileage, provides a HP increase and is the recommended fuel.
At 1.5 cents per mile cost difference (using your 50 cent difference number) - Ill just have to buy one fewer candy bar per fuel stop (my fat butt doesnt need yet another Snickers bar anyways) (of course; maybe if I eat fewer candy bars - I wouldnt need the extra HP; its a quandry)

[SportsterDoc]

? ? ? .....I don't 85 octane is even sold in the US ...... jmho .... Mike

Common in Utah and Colorado, where 87 is mid grade and typically 91 is high octane.

[SportsterDoc]

With respect for Bill's request "Not other rider's "opinions or preferences" Thank you"; I tried to state only facts. But for the record I ran 91 octane, except where not available (Stovepipe Wells, Death Valley).

[SportsterDoc]

At 1,000 miles per month and 33 MPG, the price difference for 30 gallons of fuel would be less than $15...a small price to optimize performance..not that I was concerned when 91 was not available...it will NOT "screw up the bike"

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

We have E-85 here in Minnesota.

Interesting ..... So do you think E-10 is rated at 10 octane ???? ..... Mike

[Knizar]

Interesting ..... So do you think E-10 is rated at 10 octane ???? ..... Mike

No Sir, I believe that E-85 is 15% Ethanol, and I have No idea what the octane it is!
Our ethanol produced 5 miles down the road, (non-food grade corn whiskey)
They also produce Shakers Vodka there. (Some bad sh-t to my liking)
....Bill

[Peter Aawen]

No Sir, I believe that E-85 is 15% Ethanol, and I have No idea what the octane it is!
Our ethanol produced 5 miles down the road, (non-food grade corn whiskey)
They also produce Shakers Vodka there. (Some bad sh-t to my liking)
....Bill

Here in Oz, the E-10 we get has an octane rating (ie, anti-knock rating) equivalent to your 91 (I think - cos you lot use a really weird octane measuring system that the rest of the world just can't be bothered with! ) and it's up to 10% ethanol mixed with 90% unleaded petrol; while our E-85 is a blend of between 70% and 85% ethanol topped up with unleaded petrol, with a RON octane rating of 105 - but the ethanol in either/both packs only about two-thirds the BTU's of unleaded petrol, so unless your engine has been specifically designed & tuned to run an ethanol mix, you'll always get less mpg no matter how good the octane rating means the fuel is at avoiding engine knock!

[Mikey]

Mechanics and experts? Does anyone on this site actually no more than the BRP/Rotax engineers who designed the 1330cc motor? Yes, the manual RECOMMENDS 91 octane fuel. NO WHERE in the manual does it say "minimum 91 octane required". In what world would the legalize folks of BRP state "a minimum of 87 octane" if they thought it would harm the motor? Why would BRP want to pay the cost of motor repairs if caused by 87 octane fuel? I'm sure all this would only apply to a STOCK 1330cc motor. Cat deletes? Aftermarket exhausts or intakes? FI changes? Nope .. All bets would be off with BRP.

Now you've open another can of worms! Changing the system, with aftermarket toys!!! Oh boy!!!