DESS Module - wiring difference on replacement?

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I just got a new d.e.s.s module for my 2014 rt. The new module does not have the ring on one of the wires like my old module,
should i remove it from my old module, in out it on the new module or did brp leave it off on purpose,


thanksPB050864.jpgPB050864.jpg

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just got a new d.e.s.s module for my 2014 rt. The new module does not have the ring on one of the wires like my old module,
should i remove it from my old module, in out it on the new module or did brp leave it off on purpose,


thanks

back in 2015 my DESS failed ( a 2014 RT ) and was fixed at Spyderfest by a BRP tech .... After I got home I moved it from where BRP had it mounted to right under the Right headlight ( so I would have easy access without removing the frunk ) ..... This was back in 15 so I don't know what RING you are talking about .... My dess module and yours only has BRP OEM plug connectors on it .... also re-read your last sentence it doesn't make sense ..... good luck .... Mike

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ok. my bad on last sentence, my old dess module has a metal ring on one of the wires, my new dess module does not have the ring on the wire, my question is do i need to transfer part from ols dess to new dess, thanks

[BertRemington]

By "ring" do you mean ferrite choke? Please post a picture.

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added pic to post

[Peter Aawen]

By "ring" do you mean ferrite choke? Please post a picture.

added pic to post

That looks a whole lot like a ferrite choke to me!

And since something prompted the installation of that choke in the first place - possibly someone trying to fix the DESS issue earlier.... or maybe it was an effort to sort some static in the radio or something else... and cos it really won't hurt anything at all if it's there anyway, but it might if you leave it off, then I'd just play it safe & transfer it across. Check out the way the wire lead has been threaded thru it tho, & duplicate that, just in cases!

[skip]

thanks for the info, i will transfer to to the new one

[Snowbelt Spyder]

thanks for the info, i will transfer to to the new one

I respectfully disagree. That looks like something home-made. Even if it isn’t, if the new module needed an RF choke, they would have put one on it. Use the new module as is.

[Peter Aawen]

I respectfully disagree. That looks like something home-made. Use the new module as is.

I did consider that, but if it's a ferrite choke (and it certainly looks like it is one of them, & a commercially manufactured choke at that, even if maybe it wasn't BRP tech fitted but installed by a home spanner spinner instead... ) and as such, it'll have absolutely no impact if it's there & not necessarily doing anything beneficial; only it might be doing something helpful that is not necessarily realised &/or obvious..... And it'd be a real pain to fit the new DESS module without the choke on the leads only to discover later that the choke really was helping sort something unexpected, wouldn't it?!?

Just Sayin' - it's not gonna be hurting anything by transferring it across, but it might be hurting something if you don't.... So I guess it comes down to how lucky you feel?

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Peter, on this occasion, you are having a cranial - rectal inversion. The entire DESS problem centered around RF signal communications between the DESS antenna and the chip in the key. If the new module corrects all of that, the last thing that he needs to be doing is adding additional RF filtering that could reduce the required signal levels. We don't even know what wire that is - power supply, antenna, or what? There have been literally hundreds of owners of 2014s that have replaced DESS modules, maybe thousands when you also count the sled and watercraft owners. Nobody is talking abut having to transfer parts from the old module to the new ones. Feeling lucky is not a strategy. That's my position and I'm sticking to it. Use the new module the way it came.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

well WE now know you can post PICS .. so please post a Pic of the ENTIRE new part... all the wiring with the OEM connections ..... I don't remember seeing that " choke " on the re-placement DESS module back in 2015 ( for my 14 RT ) .... the plastic ring/ clip at the bottom of the pic is what secured the " Harness w/ plugs " to the fire wall .... As I stated earlier I moved the DESS module to a position under the right headlight. ... I didn't have to do any splicing .... I just loosened the Harness and stretched it with the module to the new location ..... I THINK BRP learned something between 2015 and now & may have added that " CHOKE " ( or whatever it is ) as a further advancement in the DESS system. Historically the DESS issue began in 2014 and continued thru 2016, then it began to slow down .... Maybe because they added the " CHOKE ..... In 2019 " Joel The Biker " dis-abled my DESS module from the system, and I subsequently re-moved the Module. My RT has operated Flawlessly ever sense ..... IMHO I would leave the " CHOKE " where BRP added it and use it as is to re-place yours .....Mike

[Peter Aawen]

I can understand your concern Doug, but Ferrite Chokes don't really work that way.... what that one will do, fitted the way it is, is as quoted here:

"Ferrites are used in many consumer electronics to prevent interference from disruptive electromagnetic radiation surges in the wires they surround"

& here, courtesy of Bob Myers, Electrical Engineer, Technologist, & Tech Geek:

"Ferrite that surrounds the entire cable (i.e., ALL the conductors of the cable go through the same ferrite core or “bead”) represents a significant added inductance, but ONLY to “unbalanced” currents on the cable. Ideally, all the current on a cable going in one direction (say, from one piece of equipment to the next) is exactly matched by the same amount of current coming back on the “return” conductor. If the outbound and return currents are in fact equal and opposite, the magnetic fields they generate are also equal and opposite and cancel one another out. If that’s the case, then there’s no field for the ferrite to “work on,” and so it doesn’t represent any added inductance/impedance in the signal path. This has the effects of (a) “encouraging” the return current to come back on the intended return conductor, rather than finding another path (through the equipment safety grounds, for instance) since now that path represents the lowest impedance. In addition, (b), any “common mode” currents/noise (such as noise signals that might otherwise be inductively coupled to BOTH conductors (in the same direction) see this increased impedance in their way and are reduced in magnitude as a result. These effects contributed to reductions in both emitted and received "noise" on that connection."

Since the choke shown isn't on the DESS module, & it isn't on the key or the chip, it won't interfere with their operation or the signal - at best, it'll stop any disruptive peaks or spikes/dips in the wires it surrounds, maybe even smooth out peaks & spikes in the power those wires carry; but most likely, the choke will do nothing at all, and it certainly won't do anything to the DESS module, the antenna, &/or the chip in the key - it can't, because it's not surrounding those components.

Besides which, there are literally hundreds of those ferrite chokes fitted like that on Oz Spyders, many that have also been fitted with replacement DESS modules, and besides some claims of the choke fitting improving the clarity of the radio output, the only thing that can be clearly linked to the fitting of ferrite chokes is a reduction in the frequency of DESS issues on those machines, even those with replacement DESS Modules that continued to have issues after the replacement! Note - the critical phrase & word "...a reduction in the frequency of DESS issues on..." - fitting a new DESS module doesn't necessarily completely resolve the issues these DESS modules can cause, there's only one way that I know of to do that, see Mike's post above....

So all that said, I still reckon the best bet for skip is to transfer the ferrite choke over; cos at best, it might help, but at worst, it won't do schmick! His call tho, I've shared my knowledge & experience & what I've learned from others on this, now it's up to him/anyone else to make up their own mind & do as they see fit; and as for us, on this one, we can really only agree to differ - and isn't that part of what makes other people & life itself interesting?!

[BertRemington]

Here's what my service manual says (left-to-right in your photo):

Key-On Power DESS-A ORG/PNK
ECMB-B2 DESS-B VIO
ECMB-F2 DESS-C BLK
Antenna ANT-1 BLK*
Antenna ANT-2 BLK*

*My service manual says BLK but your photo shows ORG.

WRT ferrite choke (ferrite bead), the manual shows the Antenna wires feed ANTENNA D.E.S.S. with a symbol for a coil (inductor). This implies the presence of RF energy that travels over those wires whose signal frequency and power might be affected by the ferrite choke. However, ferrite choke attenuation is based on a number of factors including frequency, proximity to wire, etc as Peter explained above.

Your choke's opening is fairly large compared to the wires so less attenuation but the wires pass through it twice so more attenuation.

What does this mean for your situation?

Danged if I know because the presence of what appears to be electrical tape implies your wiring has been modified. Now it's quite possible BRP had a service bulletin to add the choke which involved modifying the wiring in a manner that used electrical tape rather than shrink wrap.

So please post a photo of your new module. And include the connectors as requested above.

[trikermutha]

I went thru this same discussion leave the ring off. I found out they are not used like you seen on the older style. I did remove the ring on the first module but did not on the second. If I remember correctly I had the dealer contact BRP and its built into the unit now.

So the ring is not needed.

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thanks for everyones input, yes you leave the ring off, put the ferrite ring did come on them ,

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

thanks for everyones input, yes you leave the ring off, put the ferrite ring did come on them ,

Since you thank or like my post #11 , I don't know if you read it !!!! ..... I think you should .... when you bought the part ... it came with the " ferrite ring " .... why do you suppose it came that way ????? ..... Mike

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new module does not have ferrite ring

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picture is my old module

[PaladinLV]

Probably because the SUBCONTRACTOR/Supplier makes this for several companies and to reduce costs just makes one with no variations which each buyer can then "modify" for their particular use.

AJ

Since you thank or like my post #11 , I don't know if you read it !!!! ..... I think you should .... when you bought the part ... it came with the " ferrite ring " .... why do you suppose it came that way ????? ..... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

picture is my old module

Thanks ... that bit of info helps clarify things ...... Mike