Anyone tried VALVOLINE™ 4-STROKE FULL SYNTHETIC" Motorcycle Oil?

[K80Shooter]

K80Shooter, Today I ordered the Oil test kit from a local Auto parts store, I'll pick up the test kit next week. Sat or Sunday Oct. 29th or 30th I'll change my oil in my spyder.

Once I get the Oil test's back I'll post on this site/ thread.


Deanna

Thanks Deanna

[Deanna777]

Please realize that the oil sample you extract should be after a reasonable run and driving time to blend all contaminants. Also, the oil sample should be taken as quickly as practical after shutdown.
I may be wrong, but your words make it sound as if you are waiting to get the oil sample kit, but will accomplish the oil change without the sample jar. If so, are you planning to retain the drained oil, then sample the drained oil days later?

I hope you have the time and sample kit to correctly take the oil sample, as many people are curious

PMK,


I did get the oil sample kit. The Auto parts store had to order it.

I took an oil sample while I was doing the oil change on my Spyder. I did get a call from the Lab, they wanted to confirm the oil sample was mine, so now I am just waiting to get the oil sample results. As soon as I get the oil sample results, I'll post on this thread. I know a lot of people are curious on this site about the oil sample results.

Deanna

[PMK]

PMK,


I did get the oil sample kit. The Auto parts store had to order it.

I took an oil sample while I was doing the oil change on my Spyder. I did get a call from the Lab, they wanted to confirm the oil sample was mine, so now I am just waiting to get the oil sample results. As soon as I get the oil sample results, I'll post on this thread. I know a lot of people are curious on this site about the oil sample results.

Deanna

Just for what its worth, and having done a lot of oil samples on aircraft engines, taking the oil sample requires a certain method for accurate results. Typically, the engine oil must be a full operating temperature and have run for several minutes minimum at that temperature. The oil sample should be collected as soon as immediately after shutting down the engine. The oil sample should be taken after a portion of the oil has begun draining but should not be the last oil drained out.

When oil samples are done in this manner, consistent report data can be determined to monitor trends. These trends include analysis of metallic wear particles, and levels of other elements including Silica and more. The trending determines health of the component from a wear standpoint, but is not always an indicator of catastrophic impending failure.

The typical focus in this group is the oils ability to survive molecular shearing. This is important but not entirely critical. Yes, owners here will use this information to better understand oil change intervals. While that information can be valuable, it must be utilized with caution. Here is why. The modern engine in almost every vehicle or machine is very easy on oil. Granted race or high performance will strain oil more, but in general, most engines do not wear out oil by shearing. Engines have very few internal parts that will shear the molecules. Typically, but not limited to are the cams sliding across buckets or lifters are the main culprits. Other items such as bearing, journals, pistons etc either are pressure fed or have extremely large surface areas to lessen applied surface loads.

So then, even the engine portion of the most abused by riding Spyder will not over tax an oil to failure.

Spyders, and most motorcycles utilize a shared oil system for both the gearbox / clutch, and the engine. Regarding molecular oil shearing, none of the wear components within the gearbox are pressure fed oil. This alone is a huge factor in tearing oil molecules apart. Without pressure, the oil itself must provide 100% of the film strength. The smaller the measured area between the two wear surfaces, the greater the actual pressure that is applied into the oils film.

Additionally, the mechanics of how two gear teeth interface, not only shows a very narrow contact patch, but also, the gear teeth are actually sliding across each other at extremely high pressures. These two factors basically shred the oil molecules, tearing them apart and reducing viscosity.

The modern wet clutch is an amazing device. For such a unit to smoothly harness all the transmitted power at full lock up, while bathed in slippery oil is incredible. In general though, a wet clutch has such a large surface area, and is fibre against metal, so while it does shear oil molecules, it is minor compared to the gearbox.

What this all means, if you have, or anyone has accomplished an oil sample correctly, that is wonderful. Done incorrectly is less wonderful. The real data though is in general applicable to your machine, and yours alone. Let me explain. Since we now understand the gearbox is the primary basis for shearing oil molecules, understanding how the owner rides is a HUGE factor in this shearing process. A rider that seldom accelerates hard, induces less strain into the gears. Someone that shifts at lower rpm, induces less strain into the gears. Owners in mountainous or hilly areas will induce more shearing than an owner that lives in flatter locations. Those that ride solo vs two up, or those that pull a trailer and so much more, are all relevant oil shearing factors.

This is very important to understand when owners compare oil sample reports. There can be great info that shares well, but typically, as I mentioned, each oil sample is specific to that owner and vehicle.

Years ago, others accomplished oil samples on Mobil 1 10w40 Racing 4t motorcycle oil. Having used this oil in our Spyder since draining the break in oil, I was curious of the results. The results of other owners oil sample test gave me a good basis of what to expect.

Knowing oil is not merely a mileage interval for being changed, or in some cases based on owners oil sample data, but importantly, also a calendar interval I utilize all that information when I decide on the oil change interval I would use. No I do not accomplish oil samples on our Spyder, but utilized info posted here and leaned towards generous safety margins.

Also, for anyone that has followed along, be aware, that with multi grade oils, it is common that the wider viscosity spreads such as 5w40 will shear earlier than a 10w40 of two similar quality oils. Part of this reverts to film strength between the two gears. Both oils when hot will become a viscosity of 40. However when cold, the 5w is in simple terms 1/2 the viscosity of the 10w. This thinner oil has less ability to withstand high pressure loads between gear teeth. This can shear oil sooner or possibly increase wear.

I did not take the time to post all of this to create and oil debate or war. Stating merely some of the oil stuff in simple terms. All the best to each of you in deciding what oil to use and what interval to change it at.

Moderators please understand this is not an attack at Deana so please do not delete this effort.

[ButterSmooth]

...

Moderators please understand this is not an attack at Deana so please do not delete this effort.

Your effort is appreciated. Just a thought for your consideration: I used to keep a running total of the amount of fuel consumed and used that (as well as time) to determine the oil change interval. Fuel consumed has many other factors included, such as long idling periods and heavy handed throttle use. Too cumbersome to continue with since I don't crank it up these days, but it still may be a better indicator of remaining oil life.

[Deanna777]

Just for what its worth, and having done a lot of oil samples on aircraft engines, taking the oil sample requires a certain method for accurate results. Typically, the engine oil must be a full operating temperature and have run for several minutes minimum at that temperature. The oil sample should be collected as soon as immediately after shutting down the engine. The oil sample should be taken after a portion of the oil has begun draining but should not be the last oil drained out.

When oil samples are done in this manner, consistent report data can be determined to monitor trends. These trends include analysis of metallic wear particles, and levels of other elements including Silica and more. The trending determines health of the component from a wear standpoint, but is not always an indicator of catastrophic impending failure.

The typical focus in this group is the oils ability to survive molecular shearing. This is important but not entirely critical. Yes, owners here will use this information to better understand oil change intervals. While that information can be valuable, it must be utilized with caution. Here is why. The modern engine in almost every vehicle or machine is very easy on oil. Granted race or high performance will strain oil more, but in general, most engines do not wear out oil by shearing. Engines have very few internal parts that will shear the molecules. Typically, but not limited to are the cams sliding across buckets or lifters are the main culprits. Other items such as bearing, journals, pistons etc either are pressure fed or have extremely large surface areas to lessen applied surface loads.

So then, even the engine portion of the most abused by riding Spyder will not over tax an oil to failure.

Spyders, and most motorcycles utilize a shared oil system for both the gearbox / clutch, and the engine. Regarding molecular oil shearing, none of the wear components within the gearbox are pressure fed oil. This alone is a huge factor in tearing oil molecules apart. Without pressure, the oil itself must provide 100% of the film strength. The smaller the measured area between the two wear surfaces, the greater the actual pressure that is applied into the oils film.

Additionally, the mechanics of how two gear teeth interface, not only shows a very narrow contact patch, but also, the gear teeth are actually sliding across each other at extremely high pressures. These two factors basically shred the oil molecules, tearing them apart and reducing viscosity.

The modern wet clutch is an amazing device. For such a unit to smoothly harness all the transmitted power at full lock up, while bathed in slippery oil is incredible. In general though, a wet clutch has such a large surface area, and is fibre against metal, so while it does shear oil molecules, it is minor compared to the gearbox.

What this all means, if you have, or anyone has accomplished an oil sample correctly, that is wonderful. Done incorrectly is less wonderful. The real data though is in general applicable to your machine, and yours alone. Let me explain. Since we now understand the gearbox is the primary basis for shearing oil molecules, understanding how the owner rides is a HUGE factor in this shearing process. A rider that seldom accelerates hard, induces less strain into the gears. Someone that shifts at lower rpm, induces less strain into the gears. Owners in mountainous or hilly areas will induce more shearing than an owner that lives in flatter locations. Those that ride solo vs two up, or those that pull a trailer and so much more, are all relevant oil shearing factors.

This is very important to understand when owners compare oil sample reports. There can be great info that shares well, but typically, as I mentioned, each oil sample is specific to that owner and vehicle.

Years ago, others accomplished oil samples on Mobil 1 10w40 Racing 4t motorcycle oil. Having used this oil in our Spyder since draining the break in oil, I was curious of the results. The results of other owners oil sample test gave me a good basis of what to expect.

Knowing oil is not merely a mileage interval for being changed, or in some cases based on owners oil sample data, but importantly, also a calendar interval I utilize all that information when I decide on the oil change interval I would use. No I do not accomplish oil samples on our Spyder, but utilized info posted here and leaned towards generous safety margins.

Also, for anyone that has followed along, be aware, that with multi grade oils, it is common that the wider viscosity spreads such as 5w40 will shear earlier than a 10w40 of two similar quality oils. Part of this reverts to film strength between the two gears. Both oils when hot will become a viscosity of 40. However when cold, the 5w is in simple terms 1/2 the viscosity of the 10w. This thinner oil has less ability to withstand high pressure loads between gear teeth. This can shear oil sooner or possibly increase wear.

I did not take the time to post all of this to create and oil debate or war. Stating merely some of the oil stuff in simple terms. All the best to each of you in deciding what oil to use and what interval to change it at.

Moderators please understand this is not an attack at Deana so please do not delete this effort.

PMK,

Thanks for the info.

When I took the oil sample from my spyder, I took the sample about 1 minute after the oil started to drain. I filled the oil sample to the LINE on the plastic bottle, after it was full, I caped the bottle. Put the bottle in a black small bottle( the sample bottle was clear, it had a white cover), with the info on the sheet. Mailed the oil sample as soon as I could. I got a call from the Oil Analyst lab, they wanted to confirm it was my oil. They were going to a analyst on it. I have not had the Oil Analyst test back yet. When I get the oil test results back I'll post on this thread.

Deanna

[PMK]

PMK,

Thanks for the info.

When I took the oil sample from my spyder, I took the sample about 1 minute after the oil started to drain. I filled the oil sample to the LINE on the plastic bottle, after it was full, I caped the bottle. Put the bottle in a black small bottle( the sample bottle was clear, it had a white cover), with the info on the sheet. Mailed the oil sample as soon as I could. I got a call from the Oil Analyst lab, they wanted to confirm it was my oil. They were going to a analyst on it. I have not had the Oil Analyst test back yet. When I get the oil test results back I'll post on this thread.

Deanna

Ideally, you had ridden, not idled the Spyder for at least 15 minutes to fully heat the oil and circulate the oil before capturing your oil analysis sample. On our Spyder, well before a minute, the oil is well drained and merely a trickle is coming out. Hopefully you were able to capture oil sample after about 1/3 of the oil had drained.
With luck you can accomplish this test during each oil change to establish the trends of wear metals and more, for longevity.

[Deanna777]

Ideally, you had ridden, not idled the Spyder for at least 15 minutes to fully heat the oil and circulate the oil before capturing your oil analysis sample. On our Spyder, well before a minute, the oil is well drained and merely a trickle is coming out. Hopefully you were able to capture oil sample after about 1/3 of the oil had drained.
With luck you can accomplish this test during each oil change to establish the trends of wear metals and more, for longevity.

PMK,

Yes, I rode the spyder before I took the oil sample( I put in stabilizer in the gas tank, so the stabilizer would get into the system before I did the oil change). Yes I did capture the oil sample after about 1/3 of the oil had drained.

Deanna

[Deanna777]

HI All,

I know everyone want's to know what the Oil Analyst results are on my 2014 RTS-SE6: What for it................................................ ...........

Here you are the results: Date sampled Oct. 30, 2021
Date Lab received my sample: Nov. 9th, 21
Date Reported Nov. 15th, 21

Mileage on my spyder: 29125

Time on Oil 29125 Mileage
Oil Brand Valvoline
Oil Type: Full Syn High Mileage
SAE 10W 40
Oil added 5 quarts
Oil Filter changed Yes
Oil Changed Yes

Metals(ppm)

Iron(Fe) 64
Chromium(Cr)<1
Lead(pb)1
Copper(cu) 2
Tin<1
Aluminium 3
Nickel<1
Silver<1
Titanium <1
Vanadium <1

Contaminants
Silicon(Si) 3
Sodium(na) 144
Potassium (k) 2


Additives(ppm)
Magnesium(mg)52
Calcium 1860
Barium <1
Phosphorus(p) 785
Zinc (Zn) 907
Molybdenum(Mo) 1
Boron(B) 102



Contaminates
Water(%) <0.05
Coolant Yes



Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 10.9




Physical/Chemical
Base Number( mgKOH/g 5.9

At the bottom there is a picture of a circle with a triangle with a ! also it says Caution

Legend
Severe, Abnormal, Caution, Normal


Diagnosis

Engine wear levels appear satisfactory for the first sample,
Sodium level( oil additive chemical) abnormal.
Silicon level (dirt, sealant material) Satisfactory
Water content acceptable
Viscosity within specified operation range
Action:Check for source of possible coolant leak
As oil and filter(s) already changed, resample a reduced service interval to monitor and establish wear tread.


Also everyone this is my first time I have taken a oil sample on my spyder. I have the "1330 Ace Engine".


So I don't have any thing to compare it with.

I put in 5 quarts.

Deanna

[ButterSmooth]

Here's my last results (next to Deanna777's). The forum doesn't allow more readable formatting:

Deanna777's ........................ | ..... ButterSmooth's
Time on Oil 29125 Mileage.. | ....... 6035mi(on oil, 16000mi on engine)
Oil Brand: Valvoline ............ | ....... Rotella T6
Oil Type: Full Syn High Mileage
SAE 10W 40 .......................... | ....... 5w40
Oil added 5 quarts
Oil Filter changed Yes
Oil Changed Yes

Metals(ppm)
Deanna777's ..... | ..... ButterSmooth's
Valvoline ........... | ..... Rotella T6
Iron(Fe) 64 ......... | ...... 34
Chromium(Cr)<1 | ...... 0
Lead(pb) 1 ......... | ...... 1
Copper(cu) 2 ...... | ..... 10
Tin <1 ................. | ...... 2
Aluminium 3 ...... | ...... 9
Nickel <1 ............ | ...... 0
Silver <1 ............. | ...... 0
Titanium <1 ....... | ...... 0
Vanadium <1 ..... | ....... *

Contaminants
Silicon(Si) 3 ........ | ...... 9
Sodium(na) 144 . | ...... 7
Potassium (k) 2 . | ...... 2


Additives(ppm)
Deanna777's ............. | ...... ButterSmooth's
Valvoline ................... | ..... Rotella T6
Magnesium(mg) 52 ... | ...... 81
Calcium 1860 ............. | ...... 1876
Barium <1 ................... | ...... 1
Phosphorus(p) 785 .... | ...... 836
Zinc (Zn) 907 .............. | ...... 1006
Molybdenum(Mo) 1 ... | ..... 5
Boron(B) 102 .............. | ...... 110



Contaminates
Water(%) <0.05 ... | ... 0
Coolant Yes ........ | ... 0


Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 10.9 . | . 10.83


Physical/Chemical
Base Number( mgKOH/g 5.9 ... | ... 4.5

[Deanna777]

I forgot to mention on mine, I change my oil every time before the spyder goes into hibernation,( which is in Oct.).

Question: So are my oil analysis numbers too high or too low?

Deanna

[K80Shooter]

Deanna777, This is something that would concern me, "Action:Check for source of possible coolant leak"

Have you had to add any water/antifreeze?

[PMK]

I forgot to mention on mine, I change my oil every time before the spyder goes into hibernation,( which is in Oct.).
Question:

So are my oil analyst numbers to high or to low?

Deanna

Not good for some ok for others. First one that caught my attention was sodium. That is pretty high.

Unfortunately, you incorrectly stated that the oil has 29,000 miles on it. Not sure if this was you retyping to post here or an error completing the form.

I would be curious to know the actual miles on the oil since last changed. Seeing the Cst value that low for a 10w40 is concerning.

[Deanna777]

Deanna777, This is something that would concern me, "Action:Check for source of possible coolant leak"

Have you had to add any water/antifreeze?

No I have not had to add any water/antifreeze.

Deanna

[ButterSmooth]

... Seeing the Cst value that low for a 10w40 is concerning.

With 6053 miles on the T6 it was even less viscous than the Valvoline. Though based on the TBN numbers, it looks like the Valvoline wasn't run as many miles.

[Deanna777]

Not good for some ok for others. First one that caught my attention was sodium. That is pretty high.

Unfortunately, you incorrectly stated that the oil has 29,000 miles on it. Not sure if this was you retyping to post here or an error completing the form.

I would be curious to know the actual miles on the oil since last changed. Seeing the Cst value that low for a 10w40 is concerning.

PMK,


Since I have had my spyder, I have had the oil changed every time ( by a can am dealership) before the spyder goes into hibernation.

The total mileage on my spyder is 29,125 miles. I have the oil changed once a year.

It was an error completing the form. That was my bad!

Deanna

[Deanna777]

With 6053 miles on the T6 it was even less viscous than the Valvoline. Though based on the TBN numbers, it looks like the Valvoline wasn't run as many miles.

Last year I didn't get a chance to ride my spyder as much l liked to have done because of Covid-19 and also I was dealing with some personal things in my life( off topic: I am still dealing with the personal things in my life).

Deanna

[Peter Aawen]

......
Contaminates
Water(%) <0.05
Coolant Yes



Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 10.9

.......

Diagnosis

Engine wear levels appear satisfactory for the first sample,
Sodium level( oil additive chemical) abnormal.
Silicon level (dirt, sealant material) Satisfactory
Water content acceptable
Viscosity within specified operation range
Action:Check for source of possible coolant leak
As oil and filter(s) already changed, resample a reduced service interval to monitor and establish wear tread.


.....

Deanna

Deanna777, This is something that would concern me, "Action:Check for source of possible coolant leak"

Have you had to add any water/antifreeze?

No I have not had to add any water/antifreeze.

Deanna

Given those results Deanna, with the annotation from the Analyst that 'Engine wear levels appear satisfactory for the first sample' and that the greatest benefit of these sort of tests comes from the TRENDS that regular testing reveal over time, I'd be pretty happy with those results from your Spyder - for now!

Sure, the Sodium levels reported are a tad high, but those can be caused by any one or a combination of things that don't necessarily have anything to do with abnormal wear in your engine; and Yes, you should check for a possible coolant leak, but a water contamination level of LESS THAN 0.05% could be simply caused by your sample being taken when the oil wasn't quite hot enough &/or it was taken on a humid/damp day!! Similarly, Viscosity levels of cSt 10 @ 100°C in a 10W40 oil really isn't anything to worry about... for now.

So keep an eye on your coolant level & check for leaks, maybe even put a large sheet of white paper under your Spyder whenever you park it (especially over its winter storage. ) just to see if it shows up any drips; and next time you do an oil change (earlier rather than later, as recommended) take another sample and send it off to the same place to get it analysed in order to see what might have changed. Apart from the potential for identifying imminent catastrophic failure (which your oil analysis DOES NOT SHOW!) it's the TRENDS over time that will really give you the most information from regular oil analysis!

And in the meantime....

Ryde More, & Worry Less!

[PMK]

With 6053 miles on the T6 it was even less viscous than the Valvoline. Though based on the TBN numbers, it looks like the Valvoline wasn't run as many miles.

It is typically expected that a 5w40 will shear more quickly than a 10w40 and with that lose viscosity, especially in a gearbox application. Seeing a 10w at 5w viscosity leans me to believe the 10w Valvoline breaks apart more easily under shearing.

[PMK]

PMK,


Since I have had my spyder, I have had the oil changed every time ( by a can am dealership) before the spyder goes into hibernation.

The total mileage on my spyder is 29,125 miles. I have the oil changed once a year.

It was an error completing the form. That was my bad!

Deanna

Since it is important information, do you know and can you share, how many miles of use did this oil get used?

[PMK]

Deanna,

I am curious, you listed your oil as Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage. That is an automotive car oil, and not the same as this topics Valvoline Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil.

Not sure if you had a typo or if you actually use this automotive oil. Would be great if you could post a photo of the bottle of oil you are using. Thanks.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I forgot to mention on mine, I change my oil every time before the spyder goes into hibernation,( which is in Oct.).
Question:

So are my oil analyst numbers to high or to low?

Deanna

Well your results are Very interesting ....Oil tested - Valvoline / Rotella T6 ..... these are TWO Different oils , and this was what was reported back to from the Lab ???? .... very curious about this ..... Mike

[ButterSmooth]

Well your results are Very interesting ....Oil tested - Valvoline / Rotella T6 ..... these are TWO Different oils , and this was what was reported back to from the Lab ???? .... very curious about this ..... Mike

Deanna's post had just the Valvoline; I added my T6 results so she could compare the two oils/results. Sorry for the confusion.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Deanna's post had just the Valvoline; I added my T6 results so she could compare the two oils/results. Sorry for the confusion.

What I typed " Valvoline / Rotella T6 " is what it read on the post I referenced ...... Did you change / alter your post to make it more understandable ???? .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

What I typed " Valvoline / Rotella T6 " is what it read on the post I referenced ...... Did you change / alter your post to make it more understandable ???? .... Mike

I have updated ButterSmooth's original comparison post (which showed Deanna's Valvoline oil results vs his Rotella oil results with the 2 different oils & their results separated by a ' | ' ) updated so that the difference between the two was more obvious.

Deanna's original Oil Analysis Results post only ever showed her Valvoline oil results; it was ButterSmooth who added the ' | Rotella T6 ' bit when he added his results to show the comparison; but as he mentioned, the Forum software really doesn't like tabs so it didn't display all that well! It took a fair whack of time & whole shed load of spaces & periods manually entered to space the table out the way it now appears, which I hope makes the comparison between the 2 sets of results for those 2 different oils a little bit clearer & more understandable!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have updated ButterSmooth's original comparison post (which showed Deanna's Valvoline oil results vs his Rotella oil results with the 2 different oils & their results separated by a ' | ' ) updated so that the difference between the two was more obvious.

Deanna's original Oil Analysis Results post only ever showed her Valvoline oil results; it was ButterSmooth who added the ' | Rotella T6 ' bit when he added his results to show the comparison; but as he mentioned, the Forum software really doesn't like tabs so it didn't display all that well! It took a fair whack of time & whole shed load of spaces & periods manually entered to space the table out the way it now appears, which I hope makes the comparison between the 2 sets of results for those 2 different oils a little bit clearer & more understandable!

Thank you Peter - I thought I was loosing my mind for a bit ..... NOW it reads much better ....again thank you ..... Mike