M.2 Shocks kind of installed

[whodat]

Ordered some new shocks for my F3S a while back.

And on to the new hotness!



Sitting gracefully in the air like a ballerina.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

And the package arrived!


Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr


Look at all the glory! And if you look close you'll see the problem.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr


So I ordered these a while ago. A long while. They were a week or so late in shipping. But hey, supply chain issues and whatnot. So they arrive, they look awesome. They came with the wrong instructions. I called the shop, got the guy, he gave me the info I needed. Yes they should be longer than stock. Install them upside down so the extension piece faces up.

Challenging install because the pressure wants to keep them extended further than the distance between the mounting points. Loosened the spring all the way, took off the top keeper, personhandled the shock into place.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr


Old and busted->new hotness

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

So I went to install the second shock. Ruh-roh shaggy, look at the pic again. Look at the ends of the springs. Look at your man, then look back at me. I'm on a horse. Look at the second pic. There is a thrust bearing only on one end of the spring. There's thrust bearings on both ends of the other two. I call again and say what I found. The gentleman expressed displeasure at the finding, and immediately overnighted me a new thrust washer. I'll continue the install tomorrow when it gets here.

So on the good side, the shocks are awesome looking, seem well built. The company is immediately responsive. On the bad side, the build was slow. The shocks came missing a piece that most people wouldn't have noticed is gone. The wrong instructions were in the box. And to nitpick. the thrust bearings have a 1.75" inside diameter, which sets the diameter of the spring rest. The inside diameter of the spring is closer to 1.95" so there's a solid .2" of slop available in the spring. I can't come up with an easy way to fix the problem, and it's not really a problem, but when you pay a lot (relatively) for custom suspension you have high expectations.

[trikermutha]

If your having issues talk to Marcus. And make sure you mention the issues your having. He may need to tweek a few things still. I know I went thru this awhile back but I would think by now he would have resolved things.

Once you get it sorted out you will be happy with the ride.

I know that he hires help and maybe still in training mode , times are tuff for finding quality people these days..

Looks like he is still using the Eibach springs.

[whodat]

Oh I did. I got the shocks earlier this afternoon, and called him as soon as I thought there was a problem. He's absolutely stepping up and taking care of me. yup, the springs are Eibach.

[T.P.]

Marcus is a Great guy to work with, he will stick with ya. I see you have the new Q's on

M2 SHOCKS, OUTSHOCKING! the Competition every day

T.P.

[whodat]

Ok, got the thrust bearing that M.2 overnighted me. Awesome! The delay was actually pretty useful though. It turned out that I did have some of the (mostly) correct size aluminum on hand to make my fix pieces.

Started out with whatever size that bar is, turned it down to whatever size I did that's just over spring diameter. Then I turned the face down so it had a right at 1.9" lip .120" tall which fit the ID of the spring, then cut it off at .25" and .3" per collar.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

This one shows all the parts. Collar fits in the spring. Collar is rebated in the other side to register against the thrust bearing race with .003" clearance. The race is about .029" thick so I rebated it about .020". The .25" ones get installed against the preload collar bearing, the .3" have a .530" slot cut to slip over the shock shaft and go on the other end.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

During assemblage:

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Fully installed:

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Short version is that even with weight on the bike I can easily turn the springs by hand without messing with the preload adjuster, and they're pretty well perfectly centered over the shock body.

Look at the sexy!

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Have the front adjusted for about 4" of ground clearance right now. One turn of the adjuster changes the ride height by about .5". .75" of race sag and sag in the rear with the bike nekkit. Dampers adjusted in the front as per instructions (that I downloaded) and in the rear set at the recommended 48 clicks out. Only bombed up and down the (long gravel) driveway so far. Front feels awesome, rear is brutal. Test and tune happens tomorrow.

[DGoebel]

My M2 shocks have much the same issues, mine are mounted now, but I wish I had the pieces you made to center the springs as you did.

[PMK]

Regarding the thrust bearings, typically only one is installed or required. The purpose of the thrust bearing, is on account of as the spring compresses and extends, it will twist along its axis. The bearing helps provide a freer acting spring. Kind of old technology, but it still is used today. My last race bike I had is almost 20 years old and utilized this technology.

Based on my experience as a suspension tuner, I offer up a couple of suggestions. First will be to run only one thrust bearing and install it in the correct location. Second is to find if possible, a large diameter O ring that can help seal the edge of the thrust bearing to prevent contamination. The O ring will not protect the inner diameter edge of the thrust bearing, but at least it is easily slide down to allow flushing the bearing with WD.

Regarding the correct location of the thrust bearing. It should install against the preload collar. This ensures a complete 360* of flat surface for the bearing race. Installing in the lower position, can create a bending of the race as it lays agains the spring retainer. The retainer is a “C” type and is slotted to allow installation and removal. There are other design retainers that are complete rings that can safely support the thrust bearing.

Also, regarding the C retainer, the slot should be placed 180* from the spring wire end. This will better support the spring and will help prevent the C retainer from cracking or failing on account of the springs end bending the retainer.

[PMK]

Ok, got the thrust bearing that M.2 overnighted me. Awesome! The delay was actually pretty useful though. It turned out that I did have some of the (mostly) correct size aluminum on hand to make my fix pieces.

Started out with whatever size that bar is, turned it down to whatever size I did that's just over spring diameter. Then I turned the face down so it had a right at 1.9" lip .120" tall which fit the ID of the spring, then cut it off at .25" and .3" per collar.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

This one shows all the parts. Collar fits in the spring. Collar is rebated in the other side to register against the thrust bearing race with .003" clearance. The race is about .029" thick so I rebated it about .020". The .25" ones get installed against the preload collar bearing, the .3" have a .530" slot cut to slip over the shock shaft and go on the other end.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

During assemblage:

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Fully installed:

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Short version is that even with weight on the bike I can easily turn the springs by hand without messing with the preload adjuster, and they're pretty well perfectly centered over the shock body.

Look at the sexy!

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Have the front adjusted for about 4" of ground clearance right now. One turn of the adjuster changes the ride height by about .5". .75" of race sag and sag in the rear with the bike nekkit. Dampers adjusted in the front as per instructions (that I downloaded) and in the rear set at the recommended 48 clicks out. Only bombed up and down the (long gravel) driveway so far. Front feels awesome, rear is brutal. Test and tune happens tomorrow.

Since you are now running longer shocks, have you measured and utilized camber angle as a setup parameter vs measuring sag static and race sag?

On a two wheeled motorcycle with a typical fork and swingarm design, sag becomes an important setting for a multitude of reasons, none though involve camber. Rear sag setting is important for squat / antisquat and also controlling head angle. Fork sag is typically difficult to even measure accurately and consistently. Because of this, many times rear sag is set precisely, to control suspension squat / antisquat, but less about head angle. The fork preload adjusters will dial in head angle.

On the Spyder, similar to a car, camber angle can be a tuning parameter for better handling. Because the Spyder does not have the ability of adjustable camber setting, there is no means to optimize ride height and camber. The best setting is a compromise of decent camber and ride height as it becomes. Can Am gives very specific shock length settings, likely in order to best compromise what they designed. Longer shocks can allow additional suspension extension.

I have not yet been concerned enough to experiment with chassis setup on the Spyder, to sort out best camber angles and also best lower suspension arm angles. Our Spyder is a back burner toy. Because of that, those adjustments will be tried when time permits, since each adjustment requires me to dig out the ROLO alignment tools and realign the front wheels if ride height is altered. This is the only way to compare each change without having toe in changes, due to suspension height skew the results.

Very cool for you though and have fun with it.

[whodat]

I’m not a professional suspension tuner but have some experience in the field. As for the thrust bearing, M.2 specced two so that’s what I’m running. Additional advantage of the upper thrust bearing is to spread the spring load across the c-retainer. The additional pieces I added further spreads the load. As for the additional length, that doesn’t translate to additional ride height unless you want it. Marcus stated that the extra length is to provide a smoother ‘topping out’ and the compressed length is the same. On my bike the front arms won’t drop far enough to use the extra length, unless that was an artifact of the sway bar not letting the free side droop.

[Mikey]

From what I see, you should of made your own shocks!!!!! Nice work!!

[whodat]

Thanks! But let me tell you, there's a world of difference between being able to make a part to spec (even if I made the specs up as I went) and knowing the intricacies of shim stacks, valve body sizes, oil viscosity, and fluid dynamics. That right there takes not only knowledge but experience, both of which I'm in short supply of. I've paid less for entire motorcycles than I did for these shocks, but I still think it's worth it.

[PMK]

Entirely your setup. Understanding you have increased droop, you may benefit from disconnecting both ends of the swaybar to eliminate any friction when setting the chassis to ride height you want, and level left to right.

[whodat]

Ok, I took the weekend and put a couple hundred miles on the bike on my normal (bad) roads. I ended up taking another couple clicks out of the front shocks and they seem reasonably good now. The rear I'm still working on. I believe I was told 48 clicks out from full hard (crappy cell phone on my part), the online instructions for the shocks (which are for the old versions of the shocks) say 8 clicks out from full damping but I'm closer to 8 clicks in from minimum damping. I took some of the preload out of my rear shock spring and went with the 8 clicks in from full out and that helped but it still seems like the high speed damping is too stiff or the spring is too stiff. The spring is a challenge because sometimes I have the bike naked, sometimes I have the side bags on, sometimes I have the side bags and a trunk on, and sometimes I have all that and a passenger. That's a lot to ask for one spring rate to cover. I may ask M.2 to swap springs with a lighter one, but not until after I do some more testing. I figure I'll try taking all the damping out that I can and ride it that way to see if it's the spring or the valving. I also need to throw the bags on and see how that affects the rear end. All testing so far has been done with the bike bare since that's how I like to keep it unless I'm carrying something. Why buy a sportbike and load it up like a touring bike? Anyway the front I noticed a pretty significant change over the stock fox shocks. Lots more feedback from the road, the extra droop is nice because as I crest hills and bumps it keeps the tire on the ground. I noticed that in turns I'm more likely to slip the outside wheel than to lift the inside wheel now. I wasn't paying attention for most of it but I did notice at one point in my test ride that the stability control indicator was flashing because the bike thought I was having fun. My wife rode the spyder also and didn't notice any change. More testing to come. I should point out that I generally ride on bad roads, because they are prevalent around here and have little traffic. I don't want Ferrari suspension, I want Raptor suspension. I took the bike down a dirt road and while the front handled it fine the back was literally painful, although that was before I adjusted it to softer. More updates as I get more time on it.

Edit: Just spoke with M.2 and they're going to send me a softer rear spring to try.

[trikermutha]

I did a lot of tweeking to get mine where I like them. Also had issue where the fronts were bottoming out , there was almost no travel left when compressed. Got them swapped for a different set.

[whodat]

Spoke with M2 today, they're replacing the rear shock instead of just sending me a different spring. Excellent customer service as has been reported here, This is one of the main reasons I went with them instead of Elka. I deal with a person, not a corporation. Will update when I get the new one swapped in.

[whodat]

New shock arrived, after UPS delivered it to my neighbor instead of me.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Back in the air!

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Seats and bags taken off

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

14 bolts, 5 access panels, two racks removed. Please note that I heavily modified my racks, yours (if you have them) will look nothing like this.

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Ratchet strap installed to remove tension from shock bolts

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Shock removed, bolts top and bottom are 15mm or so

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

New shock installed

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Adjusting preload. Shock fully extended

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Static sag

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Static sag

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Race sag

Untitled by Uncle Grr!, on Flickr

Only had a chance to blast up and down the driveway so far but it's a million times better already. From my understanding it's a different damping stack and different spring, more to come.

[Peteoz]

Spoke with M2 today, they're replacing the rear shock instead of just sending me a different spring. Excellent customer service as has been reported here, This is one of the main reasons I went with them instead of Elka. I deal with a person, not a corporation. Will update when I get the new one swapped in.

Yeah, whodat, I would have gone with Marcus/M2 except for the fact that shipping something that heavy to Aus costs $hundreds. His customer service is exemplary. Then I found an Aussie company who makes great shocks and also has great customer service, and my search ended.

Pete