Ryker VSS Fault Saga

[Tempest]

I figured I'd start this thread in case someone else has a similar experience. Hopefully they may avoid the same frustration.
I'd previously mentioned the beginning of this, and what I initially thought was resolution, over in: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ir-Ryker/page2

I purchased my 2021 Ryker 900 ACE in late July. Rode it ~5mi home from the dealership on a Saturday, then ~40mi round-trip on Sunday, both times in Eco mode. Then it sat for the next week while I waited for the parking brake lock and windshield to arrive, which I installed over the next weekend.

The following Monday, a crisp 55F sunny morning, I set off to work; this time in Eco Off mode. A few miles away, going ~55mph uphill on the highway, the instrument cluster lit up, gave a long beep and flashed "VSS Fault" and "Limp-Home Mode". Then the engine RPM dropped and I found myself barely able to maintain 40mph with traffic immediately behind; a nasty little "feature" of limp mode, which compounded with the lack of a hazard warning switch and impatient drivers to make for a dicey ride to the nearest exit. I took back roads home, swapped vehicles and went to work. That evening, when I checked the codes from the cluster display, I had both C006C and C0063. A cursory search pointed to the yaw sensor, however I also found an NHTSA report which indicated a number of Rykers had thrown these codes for excessive front end play OR improperly calibrated steering angle sensors (viewable here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...81946-0001.pdf ). For funsies I tried disconnecting and reconnecting both the steering angle and yaw sensors, without improvement. I called the dealership the following morning, told them what codes I had, the steps I'd tried and mentioned the report I'd found. The service department promptly had the trike picked up and delivered to their shop. By the next weekend I was told that they had contacted BRP and were instructed to reset the yaw sensor and have me "keep an eye" on it. They test rode it ~5-10 miles, I picked it up and rode it ~20mi home, noticing it seemed to have more pep than I remembered. When I got home, I found that the shop techs had left it in Sport mode, which annoyed me a bit, but I let it go.

The following Monday, another crisp morning in the 50's, I set off to work in Eco Off mode; this time, I made it about half the distance as my previous attempt and the same fault conditions occurred. Again, I limped it home, called the dealership and they picked it up. Fast forward to the end of the week, not having heard anything, I called to see what was going on. I was told that BRP had approved replacement of the yaw sensor, but the part wouldn't arrive for another week. A week later I get a call, the trike is ready to be picked up. Awesome! I check the mode, again left in Sport, switch to Eco Off and start out on the same 20mi route as last time, only making it 2mi before the fault recurred. I limped it back to the shop, pissed, made it clear that I do not want it back until it's fixed, and that this is encroaching on lemon law territory. They asked me to hang around for a bit while they had a tech check it out. Okay, cool. About half an hour later, the shop manager comes out to talk to me and indicates that they'd found excessive resistance in one of the leads to the yaw sensor, and that the sensor was likely never actually bad. They could fix it, but needed time to identify the damaged section of harness.
Now, I've been in the IT industry for over a decade. In addition to many other hats, I troubleshoot hardware and software for a living. What I was being told immediately raised a flag; why weren't the sensor connector leads part of their diagnostics process? When asked, I was told that it is part of the process, but that the initial technician, who magically no longer works there, wasn't very thorough. They assure me they now have their best guy on it and will get back to me once they determine the location of the problem and how much harness has to be replaced. Okay fine.

Early the next week they call to tell me that they located the problem and replaced the section of harness and test rode ~10mi. They wanted me to test ride, and if all was well, take it home. Yay!
Again I notice it's in Sport mode, again I switch to Eco Off, a head out on my test route. Within 2mi, it threw the error again, and I limped back to the shop. Now they're perplexed. They can't understand why it doesn't throw faults when they ride it, but does immediately when I do. I know they're suspicious that I must be doing something to cause this, and I can somewhat understand why. I assured them that I was 100% positive that I'm not riding the brake, wrote down the exact road conditions, location and speed where it had occurred, then headed home.

In my frustration, I overlooked something so completely obvious that hit me like a ton of bricks when I walked in my front door. The mode! The only time it didn't throw faults I was either in Eco or Sport mode, and every time I got it back from them it was in Sport mode. I'd bet money that their techs are hooning around on customer bikes in Sport mode when available and not treating it as a variable for troubleshooting. I called them immediately to suggest this variable and ask whether their techs had ridden in anything other than Sport. They said thanks, they'll keep working on it, and didn't know the answer to my question offhand but would be sure to check with the technician. At this point, assuming they had finally properly tested related sensors, I'm suspecting a computer problem specific to whatever code and/or circuitry change that occurs with relation to VSS and the operating mode.

A week and a day later to today, a couple hours before they close, still not having received word, I called to see what was up. Now, they must have caller ID, because they immediately asked me to hold, a few minutes later when the advisor is back on the line and I requested a status, I am told that he had just gone out to talk to the techs about it. Apparently they'd found the steering angle sensor out of calibration and had calibrated it. They wanted me to come in to test ride again. When I arrived, I ran into the service advisor out in the lot moving a bike. He immediately greeted me and said to let the other advisor inside know that I'm there to test...thanks Capt' Obvious. Seeing that I'd caught him off-guard, I took the opportunity to inquire as to whether he ever found the answer to my questions. He paused, for a while, like people tend to do when fabricating answers, flashing a micro-expression before stating that they had ridden in different modes, that it simply wasn't throwing a fault when they rode it for some unknown reason, unlucky me. I don't have concrete proof, but I'm not buying it. He also states that they tested rode all three modes this time; that I believe. This time, when I saddled up, the trike was in Eco Off...surprise surprise. Took it out for a ~12mi round trip without issue. They'll follow up with BRP, finish their paperwork and I'll pick it up next Tuesday. We'll see if it stays fixed this time.

If it recurs, my next step at this point is to contact BRP and request that they either buy the trike back, or replace it.
With regards to lemon law in my state, I've satisfied the requirements for reasonable repair attempts under warranty and cumulative days out of service. Communicating with the manufacturer is next before requesting arbitration through the state.

I do not think this issue is un-fixable, but it has become clear that I cannot trust the only BRP affiliated shop in my area to be communicative, be honest, or to know and apply basic electronics troubleshooting methodology. I love the trike, but I do think that the way it operates when activating limp mode is extremely dangerous, and I'm less than thrilled to have to rely on this shop for the software required to troubleshoot and clear fault codes, so I can't say that I'd be altogether heartbroken if they end up buying it back.

[RykerRick]

Definitely call BRP and get them involved, they will get the issue resolved. Dont take this the wrong way, but are you an experienced rider? The reason that I ask is because I'm a member of a couple of Ryker Facebook groups, and I see this same issue all the time over there with new riders. 99 times out of a 100, they're riding the brake causing the same codes that you're getting. It doesn't take much pressure at all, just enough for the sensor to sense your brake lights activating.

I know that you said that you're sure your not riding the brake, but try to adjust your brake pedal so that its not near your foot and see if it happens again. With the brake pedal in the upright comfortable position, its very close to the foot because your foot is in that same comfortable position. This is one of the reasons some wont use the brake pedal extension, it compounds the problem and makes it easier to touch the brake pedal. Many get rid of the extension because of this same issue causing them to ride the brake without knowing.

I've had my Ryker for over a year and never a code as many others here, but I ride with my foot angled outward away from the pedal, and I always have from day one. If it never happens when they test ride it, but it happens as soon as you do, and this has happened 3 or 4 times now, that tells me that your doing something that they are not. Good luck

[Beginner]

wow, sorry to hear about your issues with the bike and the service department. Hopefully you have texts or a log for proof of times and dates of contact with the service department. Some places, and I am not saying your shop is, are a not 100 percent honest. I was lucky, when a service department tried playing the game with me regarding a lemon of a tractor I had bought, I just faxed them (and the representative of the company) a copy of my logs of dates and times called, people I talked to, and dates and times of personal visits to the shop and who I talked to. It worked out in the end, but I am soo glad I had that log. Some places will do anything to get out of paying, especially when the local service department didn't follow the manufacturer's rules regarding service. If you don't have a log now, I would start from the beginning and nail down dates and times and names, and make sure to save any receipts. Who knows, this might all be worked out, but it is better to be safe than sorry: caveat emptor.

[Tempest]

Definitely call BRP and get them involved, they will get the issue resolved. Dont take this the wrong way, but are you an experienced rider? The reason that I ask is because I'm a member of a couple of Ryker Facebook groups, and I see this same issue all the time over there with new riders. 99 times out of a 100, they're riding the brake causing the same codes that you're getting. It doesn't take much pressure at all, just enough for the sensor to sense your brake lights activating.

I know that you said that you're sure your not riding the brake, but try to adjust your brake pedal so that its not near your foot and see if it happens again. With the brake pedal in the upright comfortable position, its very close to the foot because your foot is in that same comfortable position. This is one of the reasons some wont use the brake pedal extension, it compounds the problem. Many get rid of the extension because of this same issue causing them to ride the brake without knowing.

I've had my Ryker for over a year and never a code as many others here, but I ride with my foot angled outward away from the pedal, and I always have from day one. If it never happens when they test ride it, but it happens as soon as you do, and this has happened 3 or 4 times now, that tells me that your doing something that they are not. Good luck

Not at all. So, I am new to the Ryker, but I have ridden two wheels previously, over a decade ago.
The first time the fault occurred, I wasn't entirely sure that I hadn't accidentally ridden the brake and I was upfront with the shop about that. When I got it back initially, one of the first things I did was to adjust the pedal further down to a comfortable position.

I can say with certainty that I haven't been riding the brake for two reasons:
1. When I adjusted the pedal, I realized that with my foot in a comfy position well away from the pedal, I can feel the nub on the end of the peg through the sole of my boot directly under the outside of the ball of my foot. I use that as a non-visual reference of my foot position.
2. I've glanced down periodically to verify that my foot is where I think it is.

[RykerRick]

Not at all. So, I am new to the Ryker, but I have ridden two wheels previously, over a decade ago.
The first time the fault occurred, I wasn't entirely sure that I hadn't accidentally ridden the brake and I was upfront with the shop about that. When I got it back initially, one of the first things I did was to adjust the pedal further down to a comfortable position.

I can say with certainty that I haven't been riding the brake for two reasons:
1. When I adjusted the pedal, I realized that with my foot in a comfy position well away from the pedal, I can feel the nub on the end of the peg through the sole of my boot directly under the outside of the ball of my foot. I use that as a non-visual reference of my foot position.
2. I've glanced down periodically to verify that my foot is where I think it is.

Got it, then I'd follow through with contacting BRP, especially since you dont have an alternative dealership. Dealerships do not want the manufacturers contacting them with customer problems that have not been resolved, once you make that call, that will happen. I feel bad for you for having to go through this with a new machine. My experience with dealerships service departments over 40 years of riding two wheelers has been pathetic, so I usually do all my own work if possible just to avoid crap like this. In your case, its a new machine under warranty, and you really have no options other than the lemon law or BRP's intervention. I definitely wouldn't trust that service department anymore.

[Tempest]

wow, sorry to hear about your issues with the bike and the service department. Hopefully you have texts or a log for proof of times and dates of contact with the service department. Some places, and I am not saying your shop is, are a not 100 percent honest. I was lucky, when a service department tried playing the game with me regarding a lemon of a tractor I had bought, I just faxed them (and the representative of the company) a copy of my logs of dates and times called, people I talked to, and dates and times of personal visits to the shop and who I talked to. It worked out in the end, but I am soo glad I had that log. Some places will do anything to get out of paying, especially when the local service department didn't follow the manufacturer's rules regarding service. If you don't have a log now, I would start from the beginning and nail down dates and times and names, and make sure to save any receipts. Who knows, this might all be worked out, but it is better to be safe than sorry: caveat emptor.

Oh absolutely. Logs are my life.
I don't like to be quick to accuse anyone of being dishonest without hard evidence. While I strongly suspect it in this instance, I can't prove it, so I haven't gone so far as to confront them about it. I'm keeping it in mind when dealing with them.
Back when this whole pandemic started, I left the IT industry for a little over a year (that's a whole can of worms) and ended up operating tow trucks and schlepping for a transmission shop until I found a local tech gig. I got to know many of the local cops, shops and customers.

My experience led me to conclude three things:
1. I really really really enjoy rolling cars over more than I ever thought possible.
2. There are a lot of decent r&r mechanics, there aren't nearly enough techs who understand the computer systems.
3. Everything ranging from incompetence to criminal dishonesty seems spread pretty evenly throughout humanity.

So long as I can tell who's who, I have hope of dealing with the devil I know.

[chris56]

mine is a 2018 - never ever saw a VSS message in the display .. but my steering sensor made a problem, he was not properly fixed and was moving mechanically, so I got a problem that the VSS kicked in to early in left- and too late in right curves (without any VSS warnigs..)
They repaired it last year (new sleeve over the sensor) and it should not be a problem on the newer modells...( 22 T miles on mine)

If you switch off the engine and make a restart and it still has the "old" "Sport or Eco" modus, thats not normal !?!

I would check the brake-pedal once again, maybe there is the problem ..

[Spygoat]

If they were thorough, they would be checking the brake pedal sensors and spring return.

[DickB]

FYI brake code
brake fault.jpg

[Pantera]

I figured I'd start this thread in case someone else has a similar experience. Hopefully they may avoid the same frustration.
I'd previously mentioned the beginning of this, and what I initially thought was resolution, over in: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ir-Ryker/page2

I purchased my 2021 Ryker 900 ACE in late July. Rode it ~5mi home from the dealership on a Saturday, then ~40mi round-trip on Sunday, both times in Eco mode. Then it sat for the next week while I waited for the parking brake lock and windshield to arrive, which I installed over the next weekend.

The following Monday, a crisp 55F sunny morning, I set off to work; this time in Eco Off mode. A few miles away, going ~55mph uphill on the highway, the instrument cluster lit up, gave a long beep and flashed "VSS Fault" and "Limp-Home Mode". Then the engine RPM dropped and I found myself barely able to maintain 40mph with traffic immediately behind; a nasty little "feature" of limp mode, which compounded with the lack of a hazard warning switch and impatient drivers to make for a dicey ride to the nearest exit. I took back roads home, swapped vehicles and went to work. That evening, when I checked the codes from the cluster display, I had both C006C and C0063. A cursory search pointed to the yaw sensor, however I also found an NHTSA report which indicated a number of Rykers had thrown these codes for excessive front end play OR improperly calibrated steering angle sensors (viewable here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...81946-0001.pdf ). For funsies I tried disconnecting and reconnecting both the steering angle and yaw sensors, without improvement. I called the dealership the following morning, told them what codes I had, the steps I'd tried and mentioned the report I'd found. The service department promptly had the trike picked up and delivered to their shop. By the next weekend I was told that they had contacted BRP and were instructed to reset the yaw sensor and have me "keep an eye" on it. They test rode it ~5-10 miles, I picked it up and rode it ~20mi home, noticing it seemed to have more pep than I remembered. When I got home, I found that the shop techs had left it in Sport mode, which annoyed me a bit, but I let it go.

The following Monday, another crisp morning in the 50's, I set off to work in Eco Off mode; this time, I made it about half the distance as my previous attempt and the same fault conditions occurred. Again, I limped it home, called the dealership and they picked it up. Fast forward to the end of the week, not having heard anything, I called to see what was going on. I was told that BRP had approved replacement of the yaw sensor, but the part wouldn't arrive for another week. A week later I get a call, the trike is ready to be picked up. Awesome! I check the mode, again left in Sport, switch to Eco Off and start out on the same 20mi route as last time, only making it 2mi before the fault recurred. I limped it back to the shop, pissed, made it clear that I do not want it back until it's fixed, and that this is encroaching on lemon law territory. They asked me to hang around for a bit while they had a tech check it out. Okay, cool. About half an hour later, the shop manager comes out to talk to me and indicates that they'd found excessive resistance in one of the leads to the yaw sensor, and that the sensor was likely never actually bad. They could fix it, but needed time to identify the damaged section of harness.
Now, I've been in the IT industry for over a decade. In addition to many other hats, I troubleshoot hardware and software for a living. What I was being told immediately raised a flag; why weren't the sensor connector leads part of their diagnostics process? When asked, I was told that it is part of the process, but that the initial technician, who magically no longer works there, wasn't very thorough. They assure me they now have their best guy on it and will get back to me once they determine the location of the problem and how much harness has to be replaced. Okay fine.

Early the next week they call to tell me that they located the problem and replaced the section of harness and test rode ~10mi. They wanted me to test ride, and if all was well, take it home. Yay!
Again I notice it's in Sport mode, again I switch to Eco Off, a head out on my test route. Within 2mi, it threw the error again, and I limped back to the shop. Now they're perplexed. They can't understand why it doesn't throw faults when they ride it, but does immediately when I do. I know they're suspicious that I must be doing something to cause this, and I can somewhat understand why. I assured them that I was 100% positive that I'm not riding the brake, wrote down the exact road conditions, location and speed where it had occurred, then headed home.

In my frustration, I overlooked something so completely obvious that hit me like a ton of bricks when I walked in my front door. The mode! The only time it didn't throw faults I was either in Eco or Sport mode, and every time I got it back from them it was in Sport mode. I'd bet money that their techs are hooning around on customer bikes in Sport mode when available and not treating it as a variable for troubleshooting. I called them immediately to suggest this variable and ask whether their techs had ridden in anything other than Sport. They said thanks, they'll keep working on it, and didn't know the answer to my question offhand but would be sure to check with the technician. At this point, assuming they had finally properly tested related sensors, I'm suspecting a computer problem specific to whatever code and/or circuitry change that occurs with relation to VSS and the operating mode.

A week and a day later to today, a couple hours before they close, still not having received word, I called to see what was up. Now, they must have caller ID, because they immediately asked me to hold, a few minutes later when the advisor is back on the line and I requested a status, I am told that he had just gone out to talk to the techs about it. Apparently they'd found the steering angle sensor out of calibration and had calibrated it. They wanted me to come in to test ride again. When I arrived, I ran into the service advisor out in the lot moving a bike. He immediately greeted me and said to let the other advisor inside know that I'm there to test...thanks Capt' Obvious. Seeing that I'd caught him off-guard, I took the opportunity to inquire as to whether he ever found the answer to my questions. He paused, for a while, like people tend to do when fabricating answers, flashing a micro-expression before stating that they had ridden in different modes, that it simply wasn't throwing a fault when they rode it for some unknown reason, unlucky me. I don't have concrete proof, but I'm not buying it. He also states that they tested rode all three modes this time; that I believe. This time, when I saddled up, the trike was in Eco Off...surprise surprise. Took it out for a ~12mi round trip without issue. They'll follow up with BRP, finish their paperwork and I'll pick it up next Tuesday. We'll see if it stays fixed this time.

If it recurs, my next step at this point is to contact BRP and request that they either buy the trike back, or replace it.
With regards to lemon law in my state, I've satisfied the requirements for reasonable repair attempts under warranty and cumulative days out of service. Communicating with the manufacturer is next before requesting arbitration through the state.

I do not think this issue is un-fixable, but it has become clear that I cannot trust the only BRP affiliated shop in my area to be communicative, be honest, or to know and apply basic electronics troubleshooting methodology. I love the trike, but I do think that the way it operates when activating limp mode is extremely dangerous, and I'm less than thrilled to have to rely on this shop for the software required to troubleshoot and clear fault codes, so I can't say that I'd be altogether heartbroken if they end up buying it back.

I did not know that the trike could be left in sport mode.They are designed where you have to reactivate sport mode after shutting the machine off if you want to ride in sport.If yours remains in sport mode after shutting it off and restarting that may be a whole new problem that your machine has.

[Markubis]

Mine remains in sport mode as well. I don't think they default back.

[RykerRick]

My 2020 defaults back, which I dont like, I'd rather it stay in the mode that I always ride in.

[Pantera]

Mine defaults back also,just double checked it in the garage.

[hank573]

I can feel your pain.....It would take to long to go through the whole story, but I have a 2021 Spyder F3 purchased 6/2021 and went in shop 8/25/2021 back in shop 8/26 until 10/23 and now going back to shop 10/25...VSS Fault, Limp mode, codes are C0031 which was the original code and C006C..each time I pick up within 5 miles it goes back into VSS Fault, Limp mode. They have change the LF speed sensor, VCM module (VCM unit was $1000 bucks and 3 wks waiting time). Each time they test everything is ok and after about 5 miles with me it goes back into a fault. BRP cares has been helpful in getting the parts, with my help of researching alternate or sub numbers..they are not very creative. I live in Florida and am not sure if the lemon law extends to Motorcycles or not...will have to research. If you want to read the sage it is under https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...rt-!-Any-ideas I believe the dealers are at a loss as to how to repair Rykers or Spyders plus I have learned a lot of the electronic parts are interchangeable IE: VCM, Yaw Sensor, plus a lot of the problems/repair issues are the same.

[lokiryker]

When I was brand new on my bike I was riding on the brake and it triggered the VSS fault and put it into limp mode as well. It's easy to just depress down on the brake pedal with the standard pegs without realizing it.

My solution was to just get actual floorboards and get the slingmods brake pedal replacement.

[Jaxfann]

When I was brand new on my bike I was riding on the brake and it triggered the VSS fault and put it into limp mode as well. It's easy to just depress down on the brake pedal with the standard pegs without realizing it.

My solution was to just get actual floorboards and get the slingmods brake pedal replacement.

I have 2019 Ryker ACE 600 and love it.

Only problem I have had - but an annoying one - is same as you describe - I have had 2 yaw sensors replaced and 1 wireless harness replace - all under warranty but several weeks each time to get the work done. I am not sure if it really has been fixed but the fault only occurred at about 50/60mph when accelerating on on ramp around a left hand bend and on the highway at similar speed rounding a wide bend. After picking up the bike the last time about 6 months ago I just ride the backstreets and stay off the interstates - I only need it locally anyway to run back and forth to my club and or run errands. No further problems using it as such.

I am also very certain I do not ride with foot on brake at any time.

However Can Am have a problem with Yaw Sensors - VSS faults for sure, imho.

[Sungate]

This is a car sensor. Just replace it if you have no warranty.