ECO vs standard gearing

[Motogordo]

August 29,, 2021

I find that the non ECO position requires less twisting of the throttle and the pickup is faster. What I would like to know how does this system work. What changes ?
I know my 2017 Nissan Rogue also has the sport mode or standard ECO. When the ECO is not used on the Spyder, is it basically like the sport mode on cars ? Thanks for your answers.

Motogordo

[JayBros]

You have it backwards. When the Spyder is NOT in ECO mode the ECM runs the engine with full power and torque throughout the designed RPM operating range the engineers built into the engine. When the Spyder is in ECO mode the ECM reduces the acceleration curve of the engine; you can call it Old Lady Mode. No offense intended to those who like ECO mode; I call it No Fun Mode. There is NO change in gearing in or out of ECO mode. See the picture below.

[Lew L]

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I never use ECO mode

Lew L

[Peteoz]

Jaybros, I don’t think Motogordp actually has it backwards……there are lots of “non ECO” and “not in ECO” wordings in his post that make it a bit open to misinterpretation…….but effectively, not having it in ECO mode means it is roughly equivalent to having it in sport mode…….and I love that graph….thanks

Pete

[JayBros]

Pete, my wife's Toyota Highlander has what I think is a Sport mode in that when the tranny gear selector it shifts up and down through all gears fully automatically with no driver input involved other than normal pressure on the the accelerator. If the driver pushes the tranny lever to the left (would be to the right in Harrington) the driver then can tap the lever forward or aft as much as one needs/desires to change gears. In ECO mode on a Spyder, at least in mine, one can still twist the hell out of the throttle and run the daylights out of the tach and still shift when one wants, i.e., one can ignore the green arrow all one wants but the ECM is still going to reduce the acceleration curve.

[Peteoz]

Ahhhh……interesting, Jaybros . I have never run in ECO mode. I’ll have to have a play with it

Pete

[JayBros]

Interestingly enough, I went out for a little over 100 mi today for some wind therapy and played with the ECO mode for the hell of it. I had not used it since the end of CY2014 by which time I was quite familiar with my Spyder. The picture below is another from the BRP dealer presentation on the introduction of the 1330 ACE engine and 6-speed transmission. Two things IMO are of interest: 1, the the RPM at which the ECM allows the rider to upshift and, 2, the bottom note about there not being an indication to upshift when one is accelerating. First, the RPM to up shift is constant regardless of whether one is or is not in ECO mode, at least it is on my 2014 Spyder. Second, again at least on my bike, the bottom statement may not be exactly correct because of a little lag in the ECM performance and its readout on the dashboard. That's where I was playing with the throttle today. Basically I found that the statement is not correct because I did get an up shift green arrow while accelerating in all the first five gears; however, there was a lag of 500-600 RPM between the point at which the ECM would let me up shift to the RPM at which the green arrow appeared on the dashboard display. I watched it pretty constantly where I could safely do so on deserted country roads. In other words, I did get an indication to upshift when accelerating but there was a computer lag before it appeared on the display. I was interested in playing with the ECO mode because in another week I've a good bit of super-slabbing to do in the NE U.S. to get to a rally and I'm curious if ECO mode will affect my fuel mileage. It did not do so today but riding just a bit over 100 and having to add 3.04 gal. to fill the tank I believe the amount of fuel topped off and the mileage traveled might have been too short to because I don't know the accuracy of the completely full points of the last two fill ups.

[Peteoz]

Sounds waaaaay to complex for this little brain, Jaybros . I think I’ll stay out of ECO and wear any extra fuel costs

[Peter Aawen]

You have it backwards. When the Spyder is NOT in ECO mode the ECM runs the engine with full power and torque throughout the designed RPM operating range the engineers built into the engine. When the Spyder is in ECO mode the ECM reduces the acceleration curve of the engine; you can call it Old Lady Mode. No offense intended to those who like ECO mode; I call it No Fun Mode. There is NO change in gearing in or out of ECO mode. See the picture below.

Yep, as other's have said, I agree that there's absolutely NO gearing changes associated with ECO Mode, it's pretty much all in the throttle! And ignoring the dinky green arrows as nothing much more than an unnecessary reminder & basically cosmetic frippery to take your attention off the road & surrounding traffic etc, I don't think it's actually the ECU reducing the POWER & TORQUE that's driven by ECO Mode per se, it's more that selecting ECO Mode is effectively the flip side of installing a Pedal Commander

Adding a Pedal Commander intercepts the throttle signal and increases the rate at which your throttle input is applied to control the ECU & so extract power from the engine; while BRP/CanAm's version means that selecting ECO Mode simply intercepts the 'normal' throttle signal and decreases the rate at which your throttle input is applied to the ECU as per that Graph! . A Pedal Commander INCREASES the % throttle opening for any given degree of twist; while BRP's ECO Mode DECREASES the % throttle opening for the same given degree of twist!

Which as far as I can see means that quite simply, no matter how hard you wring it, the throttle signal is going to be reduced/delayed so you can't ever get the ECU to deliver as much fuel to the engine for any given throttle setting; and that, if teamed with a little 'short shifting' (but not by much ) in response to prompts from the dinky green light instead of the operator learning to shift at/near peak torque, just might even lead to your Spyder using a tiny amount less fuel in the long run - but that fuel saving comes at the cost of marginally less response being available all the time, slower acceleration, and getting into those higher gears sooner... which in itself juuust might increase the stresses on other parts of the driveline!!

Or if you like, when your Spyder's NOT in ECO Mode, the throttle input is NOT delayed/restricted (much! ); but when it IS in ECO Mode, the throttle input IS delayed/restricted as per the graph, so your engine is not ever going to see the same responsiveness &/or power/torque output from the same throttle setting - it's all going to be proportionally less as per the graph and you'll never get the 'normal' WOT that you get without ECO Mode selected.... Not that the WOT you get 'normally' really IS WOT anyway, cos it too is somewhat restricted due to the de-tuning our Spyders get courtesy of BRP's lack of confidence in our skills & ability to control such astonishing amounts of power....

Funnily enough, many of us who've had ECU Upgrades done; upgrades which for most IMPROVE the ECU's performance mapping & INCREASE the engine's power output at a given throttle setting, and for some even increase the WOT setting & broaden the rev range where this occurs; have found that when we're not wringing the throttle hard & thrashing our Spyders to the extreme, we consistently get measurably better fuel economy because of the better/earlier throttle response & greater access to power that means we can pull & hold higher gears more easily without stressing the driveline.... which to me seems to be the aim, but effectively be the opposite of what BRP is achieving with their ECO Mode!!

Still, all that ^^ palaver is just one of the reasons that I still own and I'm still ryding by preference my peppy, revvy, & exciting to ryde V-twin powered 2013 RT that doesn't have any of that ECO Mode clap-trap!! MY ECO Mode comes courtesy of how gently I twist my right wrist, and I don't need any dinky green arrows to remind me to short shift if I'm trying to eke the most miles from as little gas used as I can! But that's just me I guess!

I've said it before, but I'll still say it again - I like to Ryde More, & Worry Less! .

[Steve W.]

We tried ECO mode, we tried "Normal" mode. We found that the throttle was a bit too sensitive or "twitchy" in "Normal" mode, so we leave it in ECO.

As far as that "dinky green arrow" is concerned, let's just say that it's not any more visible than the turn signal arrows, and I am certainly not going to waste any time watching the gauges to see when (if?) it comes on. We don't even shift based on the tach reading, it's more by sound.

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[MRH]

If you'd like to push further past the response you get in normal mode and would like to have more of a sport mode (and not have to twist the throttle very far to get the power you may want), do a search here for "Pedal Commander". It's a great device for giving you the feeling of more power, and, some would argue, accessing a bit more power as well. There are a plenty of threads on the topic, and the video by Martin the Vlogger is a must see if it gets your interest.

[Peteoz]

If you'd like to push further past the response you get in normal mode and would like to have more of a sport mode (and not have to twist the throttle very far to get the power you may want), do a search here for "Pedal Commander". It's a great device for giving you the feeling of more power, and, some would argue, accessing a bit more power as well. There are a plenty of threads on the topic, and the video by Martin the Vlogger is a must see if it gets your interest.

Yes, and that is exactly what I am using my pedal commander for on my ‘21 RT, MRH. I had the ECM upgraded on the ‘16 F3-L to reduce the bogging down when you twisted the throttle hard. There is not so much lag on the ‘21 RT, but it is still there, so the pedal commander was installed to address that. Sure, it doesn’t give you the overall additional power of the ECM upgrade, but that isn’t an issue for me as my RT has more than enough power already for me………this solution works a treat for me, is a slightly cheaper option, there’s no risk of losing your ECM in the post, and it’s an easy remove when you trade.

Pete

[ARtraveler]

Tried ECO mode when it first came out in 2014. Gas savings (ECO?) were about one mpg compared to normal. My biggest complaint was watching for the green arrow telling me when to upshift. Yes, I know how to shift by sound and feel, but I wanted to know what ECO was telling me to do. I faithfully did it for a full gas tank.

My take, not worth the bother. And I get to do my rant again. Keep the ECO mode and give us back the automatic trunk release button.

[AeroPilot]

I guess it all comes back to how you like to ride. For those who like to "grip it and rip it" the more direct thottle program response (without ECO) or even as I understand the the pedal commanders that let you "Stand on it" can open the throttle and allow the 1330 to get the RPMs a rollin'.

The 990 twins needed 4500 RPM to get torque above 70 lbft to start and then reach peak performance of 80 lbft in the 5000 to 6000 RPM range for those who like to rev it.
The 1330 triple is happy to deliver 88 lb ft at 3000 RPM and we can still have our moments chasing the two wheelers through the twisties by dropping a gear and opening the revs to the peak torque from 4800 to 6000 RPM - different strokes for different folks as it were.

My cruising style is more to ease these old wrists into the throttle and only rev it up enough to keep up with the wifes F3T. Her last fillup was after 250 miles of mountain and non slab cruising. I think the wide band torque curve on this Rotax 1330 is what allows all of us to ride how we like to ride and just as there is no Best Tire for the Spyder, what is best is how you enjoy your Ryde.

[Motogordo]

August 31, 2021
In reference to the ECO vs Standard mode. I spoke to the dealer today and he said that since the throttle is electronically controlled (by wire) that it reduces the throttle wrist grip when in Non ECO. It reduces the response time and therefore it is faster. It reminds me of the pedal commander which also does the same thing. IMO. Quicker throttle response. I use the NON ECO now. I am not worried about the gas mileage. Like someone said before, get a Prius if worried. LOL. I bought it for fun, not for gas mileage. Maybe we should worry more about the price of these new Non-Caged motor toys. LOL.

[JayBros]

Now you're thinking!