Swaybar Bolt Crooked-ness Confirmation Needed

[bayoumanPIBE]

My bike is still shaking in the front end while riding over 55+ and never stops. I had a swaybar installed when I bought the bike...so far, nothing is helping.

See pic...I noticed this bolt looking like it is not attached correctly...but, it also look like it could be on a ball where this is normal..however, it looks crooked...is this normal?

I am trying to go down a short list of possibilities of this shaking...other than the bad install beating up the bolt, link and bar itself...could this crooked bolt be the cause?

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[BajaRon]

The bolt is fine, as far as it goes. It looks like the bolt may be hitting the link. It appears that there may not be enough room for the assembly to articulate fully. The ball joints in the end links move in every direction when in use. There is quite a bit of movement, depending on how hard you are riding it, loading, etc. The link will also twist left to right. All normal. But if there isn't enough room for this movement, hard parts will come together and create other issues. I can't tell, for sure, in this photo. But I would inspect these assemblies for any signs of contact and correct this.

The bolt should not be touching any other moving component. And the spacers should not come into contact with any moving component. If they do, this is not good. If any portion of this assembly runs out of free space to move. The leverage created when hard parts come together can be extremely high.

As far as the shaking. This is most likely an out of balance, out of round, cord separated or other tire issue. It probably has nothing to do with the sway bar. A sway bar cannot correct a rotating mass that is out of balance. How are your tires wearing? Are they cupping or showing signs of uneven wear? This is where I would recommend starting your search for a cure.

[RICZ]

If you have Kendas, at least on the front, I could not keep them in balance and got a whole lot shaking goin' on. When I swapped them for Federal Formoza tires, all was good - no shakin'.

[JayBros]

I too had a Crapenda front tire that after about 24,000 miles could not be balanced to the point where there was no vibration in the range of 45-55 mph. I tossed the Crapendas and had the shop install Federal EVO 595s that are doing fine with 27.9K on them and lots of tread left.

[2dogs]

I too went with Federal and the Crapends got tossed. Very good advice above. First, can't solve a vibration issue with poorly manufactured tires. Second, spin balance new quality tires. Third, get a rolo laser alignment and all your frontend issues should become a thing of the past. Good luck.

[bayoumanPIBE]

BTW, this post concerns my brand new not even 2 month old rather sexy looking 2021 F3 Limited...sorry, I should have posted that as well. She just rides like a pissed donkey...extreme exaggeration, but still rides bad with shaking starting about 55-60mph in my feet and the faster I go, the shaking works its way up to the handle bars and then windshield.

I have spent a lot of $$$ already with the purchase, custom work already done on it, driving back and forth 8+ hours many days...vibrations and shaking has been going on since day 1.

I'll try to answer many questions some might have...but, I am more than happy to have any discussion.

• The Kenda tires were supposedly balanced 3 times by the dealership (Pitbull), and 1 time by Head Motors (Can-am dealer a few miles down the road from me in Columbia, MO). Head discovered 3 1/2 oz. combined off both fronts...not cool. They balanced them again, machine said they were fine...bike still shook.
  
• I'd like to save trying to purchase new tires if at all possible until later...but, I will have to if nothing else pans out. I have already missed a lot of riding season from waiting on it to come from BRP, to building/customizing it and tweaking with things to try and fix this shaking.
• It has a belt tensioner.
• I do not use a death grip.
• This is not my first Spyder.
• I swapped wheels with another F3 riding friend...mine still rode like a POS, and his still rode smooth as expected.
• I discovered the front wheels were at 27.5 psi and the rear was at 37.5 psi by one or both dealerships.
• I am now investigating the shocks this week...might be done by first of next week.
• The swaybar is just another grasping at straw thought. I will check what I can underneath this weekend.
• The belt is nearly touching the inside wall...see pic. I am not sure if that's normal...I was told it needs to be about 1/8" from the wall. I have not measured it yet...

I really appreciate ya'll's time...

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[RICZ]

Yes the belt needs adjusting and more than likely loosening the tension. It should be the thickness of a credit card from the inner flange.
It's not a complicated operation which I do not trust a shop to do right or well. There are YouTube videos.
New front tires need not be pricey. Some say they bought Federals at Walmart for $51 apiece and some said Walmart install them free.
The above is a world cheaper than shocks. Your shocks are still good. You will be glad you installed a Bajaron swaybar. Do it.

[BajaRon]

Is this a shaking or a vibration? One is most likely front wheels. The other is probably the drive belt. Terminology is important.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If you have a NEW Spyder .... those front tires are under WARRANTY ..... Have the DEALER re-place them Under Warranty. If they can't be balanced on a SPIN balancer ... then they are DEFECTIVE, not a worn out item .... not un-common for Crapenda's ..... good luck .... Mike

[rjinaz86323]

I swapped wheels with another F3 riding friend...mine still rode like a POS, and his still rode smooth as expected.

don't see how it can be tires based on the above

[Mikey]

Is your little tie rod hooked up on your rear swing arm for you auto air ride??

[2dogs]

You haven't mentioned getting an alignment. A proper alignment is very important to a well-functioning spyder ride. Mine didn't settle down until I had an alignment done. The left front wheel on mine was over 2" out of alignment. Prior to having Squared Away alining my spyder I confronted the service department manager about my front tires cupping, his response was, "they all do that." So until you address all three, tires, balance, and alignment, you may never solve the problem. Keep us posted on your progress.

[bayoumanPIBE]

NOTE: I need to start off by saying...as many can relate...life has been crazy the past few years for everyone and every business, so I apologize for reading as if I am still not happy with anyone or any one company. It's all just been slow...and I'm not always patient. The Spyder family and community are the best. I have stirred up some folks and hornets' nests the past few months trying to get things right, and all have been patient with me. Thank you so much everyone in SpyderLovers, Pitbull, BRP, King Shocks, PPA Wheels and SpyderExtras.

@RICZ - adjusting the belt is part of the plan
@BajaRon - it is primarily shaking, my apologies
@BLUEKNIGHT911 & @rjinaz86323 - I was informed the front tires were replaced when at the dealership when looking into the shaking. I have read other posts where it took some ryders 3 or more sets of Kenda tires to realize it was the tires...so, I am not ruling out the tires yet even though I swapped tires...because Kenda's still surprise the h#ll out of me more than the ex-wives
@Mikey - I am not sure about the tie rod being hooked up to the rear swing arm. I’ll add that to the list of checks
@2dogs - I was told a laser alignment was performed

I will continue to work closely with the dealership (Pitbull) & BRP. We have a good plan of action, and I will update this post as soon as possible.

I’ll keep checking back here in case anyone else has any comments, questions and/or suggestions.

[bayoumanPIBE]

#1 - I mentioned vibrations in this bike...no, it is shaking / wobbling in the dash and windshield and trickling down to my feet and at times my butt.

#2 - So...the bike still wobbles / shakes. And, since everything THAT IS NOT aftermarket is up to specs per BRP and dealership...and, BRP has closed the ticket on my shaking/wobbling issue. So, it's all me now.

I'm up for any suggestions anyone might have...
The only options I can think of now is to:

1. buy a Krikit belt tension gauge and check the tension myself...however, my manual does not indicate the levels for tension...unlike other older manuals do. if it's not where it should be, i'll try to adjust the belt myself.
2. try another windshield such as a stock one. i have a large Madstad at the moment. *reminder, i do not have any of the stock items which were replaced when the bike was built...was just easier to add the aftermarket items during the build instead of taking things apart again. wish i'd not done that just to see if the bike was always broke.
3. have the wheels balanced on a road force machine
4. buy new non-Kenda friggin tires
5. sell the bike...it's just not enjoyable unless i'm under 50-ish mph...

p.s. sorry about the grammar...very frustrating conversation for me. thanks all...

[PMK]

You swapped tires with another Spyder, your tires / wheels did not shake on the other Spyder.
Your Spyder continued to shake with the loaner tires / wheels.

Therefore it is not front tires / wheels at this time.

The rotating parts that can induce a vibration at this point would be the rear wheel / tire. Though that would require a respectable imbalance.

Therefore, an easy test, wipe the area where the rear wheel balance weights reside, mark the wheel. Then remove those rear wheel weights. Was a change experienced. Take notes. If needed, the weights can be prepped and reinstalled at the witness marks.

Any worthy dealer knows there is a TSB regarding belt vibration, and should have, under warranty made adjustments to lower belt tension to the TSB specs. It appears you may attempt this yourself. Try it and note any change.

As for an alignment causing a vibration, very unlikely, and supposedly that was accomplished. Suggest checking accuracy yourself by using tape measures and marking the tire by raising it, spinning and drawing a line upon the tread. Accomplish marking both tires. With a helper, verify the dimension across the front is about no more than 1/4”. Measurement should be at the same heights and as far above the ground as the frame allows. Take good notes of the dimension.

As for the windscreen test, suggest removing it entirely, leave off, test ride without the windscreen. Take notes.

While troubleshooting by eliminating one item at a time can be time consuming, hopefully it offers up a noticed change that leads to a corrective action.

I am helping a friend, his customer has a recently purchased aircraft that has a vibration. Using similar logic, we have eliminated the common items that cause vibrations, tried various other techniques to demonstrate a change, and I myself assisted in dynamic balancing the prop to .025 IPS, which is well below the typical threshold of .1 IPS.
Downside here is now it gets expensive, partially open the engine checking crankshaft dampers, after that it is complete engine teardown / overhaul at a cost more than a fully optioned new Spyder, or we buy a new prop, but hunch says it is internal engine, or dynamic incompatibility of the engine and prop.

Point being, a couple of quality hours spent loving your Spyder might reveal a best course.

[PMK]

Wanted to add, if you do add lines to tires and check toe in, while spinning the tire inspect for a bad wobble or up/down runout. Possibly the front hub was machined incorrectly. Since a tire / wheel is secured to the hub, any error there translates as a wobble, shake, hop in the tire / wheel. Just another easy to check idea.

[BajaRon]

#1 - I mentioned vibrations in this bike...no, it is shaking / wobbling in the dash and windshield and trickling down to my feet and at times my butt.

#2 - So...the bike still wobbles / shakes. And, since everything THAT IS NOT aftermarket is up to specs per BRP and dealership...and, BRP has closed the ticket on my shaking/wobbling issue. So, it's all me now.

I'm up for any suggestions anyone might have...
The only options I can think of now is to:

1. buy a Krikit belt tension gauge and check the tension myself...however, my manual does not indicate the levels for tension...unlike other older manuals do. if it's not where it should be, i'll try to adjust the belt myself.
2. try another windshield such as a stock one. i have a large Madstad at the moment. *reminder, i do not have any of the stock items which were replaced when the bike was built...was just easier to add the aftermarket items during the build instead of taking things apart again. wish i'd not done that just to see if the bike was always broke.
3. have the wheels balanced on a road force machine
4. buy new non-Kenda friggin tires
5. sell the bike...it's just not enjoyable unless i'm under 50-ish mph...

p.s. sorry about the grammar...very frustrating conversation for me. thanks all...

I can understand the frustration. Several have tried to help. But diagnosing problems over the Internet is very difficult. You have an issue that requires a knowledgeable, experienced person to ride your Spyder. If we could do that, we could probably help you a great deal more. But I think we are running out of Internet Guesses. Time to get some hands-on expertise.

[bayoumanPIBE]

I totally understand the internet suggestions / guesses. I'll keep hammering away at what I have planned and the suggestions received. And, I am not selling her...just blowing off steam unnecessarily. I'll post anything which may come up. I appreciate everyone...great community!

[Piratezz]

It sucks, to have a machine, that doesn't work properly, I would (after reading this complete thread) go with the option PMK suggested, Look for a bad hub, it isn't that far fetched.
Easy to check, Remove the wheel, set up a cardboard box, next to the hub, and while holding a ruler, slowly spin the hub, if you see any movement in the hub/ brake rotor, that would be the culprit.

Might be even something stupid, as the wheel not seated correctly, If you change tires from left to right, just to test...

[Poasttown]

My comment probably doesn’t apply to your bikes issue but I will throw it out there anyway. I had a really bad vibration on my bike beginning around the lower seventies mph. I had my BRP tech test ride and he indicated a belt vibration dampener would help. I installed a belt vibration dampener and the vibration went away except for a slight vibration in the lower fifties. Again, your description sounds different and I generally don’t like to just begin replacing /adding parts to solve problems. However, the vibration dampener is a pretty inexpensive item and relatively easy to install.

Poasttown, 2019 F3L

[PMK]

It sucks, to have a machine, that doesn't work properly, I would (after reading this complete thread) go with the option PMK suggested, Look for a bad hub, it isn't that far fetched.
Easy to check, Remove the wheel, set up a cardboard box, next to the hub, and while holding a ruler, slowly spin the hub, if you see any movement in the hub/ brake rotor, that would be the culprit.

Might be even something stupid, as the wheel not seated correctly, If you change tires from left to right, just to test...

The method of checking the hub / disc you mentioned is somewhat difficult to do in a simple accurate way. The reason being is that the brake disc is not part of the hub, like on old cars. This requires any checking to be done at the hubs small diameter, after removing the brake caliper and brake disc.
By spinning and watching the wheel it could indicate a concern to investigate further, which could then be checking at the hub.

Great suggestion though.

[Piratezz]

Seems to me that topic-starter has tried everything else, What I don't hear is how the other spyder rode, with his wheels on, could also be a slightly warped wheel...
We are guessing to the problem, we need to rule out everything,

[PMK]

Seems to me that topic-starter has tried everything else, What I don't hear is how the other spyder rode, with his wheels on, could also be a slightly warped wheel...
We are guessing to the problem, we need to rule out everything,

If you go back and read the detailed list from the OP in post #6, he stated his front wheel assemblies did not induce issues on the other Spyder.

[BajaRon]

If you go back and read the detailed list from the OP in post #6, he stated his front wheel assemblies did not induce issues on the other Spyder.

The OP has done a pretty good job of eliminating possibilities. But it seems he's no closer to a cure. That's what is tough about this one.

[PMK]

The OP has done a pretty good job of eliminating possibilities. But it seems he's no closer to a cure. That's what is tough about this one.

Maybe he needs a sticker...

Ron, I offered up some methodical items to check and help eliminate as needed possible concerns. Entirely his choice, how or if he decides the info shared could help. My opinion is he is close and will be resolving the issue in short time.