Juice box need?

[Mgfever]

I recently bought a 2008 Spyder GS. This is my first. The Spyder had a very loud HMF muffler that appeared to be, and sounded like, a straight pipe. I got it with the original muffler so after a couple of rides decided to put the original back on. I’ve noticed since then that the gas mileage is not very good and it’s running pretty warm, even hitting the high alarm when I joined a parade for a short time. It cools down as soon as it gets up to speed. I finally decided to investigate the issue so pulled off the Tupperware. Noticing the radiator looked a little dirty, I washed it out with a good stream of water. It runs a little cooler but still gets up to the top third of the scale. While I was cleaning I discovered the Juicebox. Not knowing anything about that I’ve found some information on the web and downloaded the manuals. I haven’t spent any more time learning more about it but I wonder though if that device is necessary without the HMF muffler. I’m looking for advice from the community. Thanks for any help.
Tony

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hey Tony. Welcome to Spyder Land. Un-install it. Electronic fuel injection systems, even as far back as 2008 and well before, control the air - fuel ratio based on a feedback control from the O2 sensor. Any change you make with the juicebox will be undone by the O2 sensor feeding that information back to the computer. The only place it would possibly change anything is when you get close to wide-open throttle. So, unless you plan on drag racing and have access to a dyno, it's just another thing that can fail and leave you broke down someplace.

BTW - this thread might be helpful to you too, regarding the 998 info.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-Spyder-owners

[Mgfever]

Hey Tony. Welcome to Spyder Land. Un-install it. Electronic fuel injection systems, even as far back as 2008 and well before, control the air - fuel ratio based on a feedback control from the O2 sensor. Any change you make with the juicebox will be undone by the O2 sensor feeding that information back to the computer. The only place it would possibly change anything is when you get close to wide-open throttle. So, unless you plan on drag racing and have access to a dyno, it's just another thing that can fail and leave you broke down someplace.


BTW - this thread might be helpful to you too, regarding the 998 info.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-Spyder-owners

Thanks Doug. I have read that post. It has a lot of great information. I’m still trying to learn to keep the revs up while riding! I was actually thinking about removing the Juicebox so now I will. Maybe I’ll find another owner who wants that loud exhaust and Juicebox!

[Mikey]

Thanks Doug. I have read that post. It has a lot of great information. I’m still trying to learn to keep the revs up while riding! I was actually thinking about removing the Juicebox so now I will. Maybe I’ll find another owner who wants that loud exhaust and Juicebox!

I think you are doing a good thing there myself!!! After you get closer to this new ride and watch your shift points you will find that you will be using 5th gear more as like a overdrive gear, after you dump the aftermarket junk!! My hopes for you is that I hope that bike hasn't had to many hot suppers!!! Keep good oil in it and check the water pump weep hole to see if there's any dripping going on!! That 998 is a good motor it just likes to rev up and breath!!!

[Peter Aawen]

The OE Muffler on those early Spyders had a Catalytic Converter cell included in the front/engine end of the muffler, and Cat Converters NEED fairly high temps (650°C plus IIRC?!?) to properly activate the catalytic material in order for them to work properly. The HMF muffler almost certainly did NOT have a Cat Converter included, which is why they are so much lighter and generally run at significantly lower temps! And, since the HMF didn't have the massive choke point in it that those Cat Converters are, it probably would've caused the engine to run a tad oddly without the juicebox, so adding that would've provided access to more power and reduced the banging & popping on decel as well as minimising the risk of engine damage from running too lean at anything less than WOT... and probably even if paradoxically it might have improved the low/mid range fuel economy too - in a nutshell, better power in the revs you use most means less wringing of the throttle & therefore returns better fuel economy despite the (marginally?) increased fuel delivery!

All of which means that now you've re-fitted the heavy OE Muffler with it's integrated Cat Converter, it adds up to those high temps you're experiencing until you get up into higher throttle settings where the air flow in is better - the OE Muffler with it's Cat Converter is now almost certainly generating a LOT of that extra heat, especially at low revs, by choking the exhaust off (as it's designed to in order to generate the heat it needs to work) but that's then made worse due to the power loss caused by the more restrictive exhaust and the extra fuel (now wasted & simply costing you fuel economy) that the juicebox is pumping into the engine with little effect, especially at low to mid-range revs where it's added power/fuel would've been most beneficial IF it could be pushed out the exhaust, even with the standard ECU settings.......

So if you really want to reduce the heat & get some of that fuel economy back, I'd suggest the easiest/cheapest way to achieve that would be to keep the juicebox, toss the OE Muffler & it's integral cat converter (again), and re-fit the HMF muffler only with a baffle or two installed to reduce the sound output, or a quieter a/mkt free flowing alternative. That'll also have the benefit of giving you back some of the low & mid range power you may not yet even have realised you lost by re-fitting the OEM Muffler & it's heat generating choke point of a cat converter & which then would be compounding by removing the juicebox & de-tuning the engine completely back to its std settings to suit!

It sounds like someone did a really good job with the HMF & juicebox re tuning it all properly for low-mid range power & fuel economy, only they didn't mind the noise.... (probably deaf already?! ) so why waste all that good work & effort and return your Spyder to the de-tuned pre-mod mediocrity it left the factory with - just fix the noise from the HMF with a baffle or two; maybe even swap to a quieter a/mkt muffler if you must; but certainly try to keep the tuning, the low/mid range power, & the fuel economy improvements your machine already had that come with the juicebox & a free flowing exhaust without a Cat converter, AND at the same time, avoid the excessive heat & added weight that comes with the OE Muffler & its integrated cat converter!

Just sayin', & playing the Devil's Advocate here!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I would check to see if have any leaking in the exhaust pipe joints .... the OEM gaskets were not great quality and many here learned that HONDA made better ones that fit ..... someone will chime in on the part # ..... I hope .... Mike

[Mgfever]

Wow Peter, I wasn’t re-checking this site since I last posted so missed your post before I removed the juice box. Just finished that today so haven’t had a lot of road time to compare the performance yet. Now I’m really conflicted! I didn’t know you could add baffles to these mufflers. I guess I’ll need to review my decision.