Cornering Nightmare - Update

[Circ]

Thank you to all who responded, especially those who gave constructive, positive feedback regarding the nanny and NOT my riding style. I have taken the first step and replaced the sway bar with a Baja Ron. It is a huge improvement and based on many of your suggestions, I will either be installing pre-load adjusters, stiffer springs or new shocks. My extensive motorhead experience has taught me to only do 1 upgrade at a time and put some seat time in before attempting another upgrade. That is why I have 12k mi on the machine before any changes were made. The Nanny is slightly muted with the new sway bar but I can still kick it in by tightening the radius on 'almost any' corner. If the corner is off camber, the nanny comes on with very little rider input. That fact alone tells me something is not right.

[Woodaddict]

just one aspect of nanny is all 3 wheels are metered, for anti lock brakes, if one slightly lifts, that shows slower rotation of 1 of 3 wheels and nanny kicks in

[SpyderGoldwingOwner]

I ride both a 2018 Goldwing DCT and a 2020 Spyder RT. Here is what has helped me enjoy the Spyder more. Please try it!

I added the Baja Ron Sway/Link bars
Get a laser alignment

Try this for a day on cornering the Spyder.

1-If cornering left-push the bars with your right hand-relax your left hand-don't pull on the bars. It's along for the ride
2-Do the opposite when turning right
3-Look thru the turns-any slow down do before the turns with down shifting
4-accelerate thru all turns and lean in to the turn
5-practice

The above works for me. Good luck

[Joel The Biker]

Go to the dealer or find someone with BUDS near you and reset your YAW RATE SENSOR. It requires the spyder to be parked on a level surface with someone sitting on the seat during the reset. This should solve your problem and make it less sensitive.

[Circ]

Thank you Joel, that sounds like exactly what I need to do. I did take it to one dealer and as I stated previously, they told me it was normal and nothing could be adjusted. I will be back in Las Vegas (where I purchased) in a few weeks and intend to pursue that path. This just can't be right. I am not throwing the bike into corners like a madman, nor am I lifting either of the front inside wheels off the ground but since the springs are soft, I am creating a yaw factor. I do believe the laser alignment could be (as some have suggested) beneficial but I did not want to do that until I put new rubber on the front (shortly). Can't wrap my head around the alignment affecting the yaw but I suppose anything is possible.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Can't wrap my head around the alignment affecting the yaw but I suppose anything is possible.

I would say it doesn't except as a secondary effect. Misalignment can lead to understeer and oversteer, which may be some of what you are experiencing. The extra lean caused by sudden changes in the turn caused by under and over steer can be reflected in the yaw sensor.

[PMK]

Thank you Joel, that sounds like exactly what I need to do. I did take it to one dealer and as I stated previously, they told me it was normal and nothing could be adjusted. I will be back in Las Vegas (where I purchased) in a few weeks and intend to pursue that path. This just can't be right. I am not throwing the bike into corners like a madman, nor am I lifting either of the front inside wheels off the ground but since the springs are soft, I am creating a yaw factor. I do believe the laser alignment could be (as some have suggested) beneficial but I did not want to do that until I put new rubber on the front (shortly). Can't wrap my head around the alignment affecting the yaw but I suppose anything is possible.

Joel has an excellent recommendation. To clarify a bit further, his suggestion, you must realize and understand that the handlebars pointed straight and the wheels properly aligned is strictly a mechanical function and setting. Now to complicate this, the Spyder has two sensors, one is the steering angle sensor, the other is the yaw sensor.

The steering angle sensor is essentially attached to the handlebars. With the bars straight, it is nulled or zeroed. Turn the bars and it tells the computer. If not nulled, the sensor could tell the computer the bars are turned, when actually they are straight. So mechanically all could be correct, but electronically there could be an error.

The yaw sensor, like the steering angle sensor converts a mechanical input to electronic input. As Joel mentioned, the Yaw sensor must be nulled under certain conditions. The entire vehicle is the mechanical input for yaw. If Yaw is not nulled, it tells the computer there is a sideways input such as sliding, or other input parameter. Again, if not nulled, mechanically the Spyder could be rolling straight ahead, but the computer is being told otherwise.

Correctly done by an experienced person that knows how to correctly align a Spyder, they should null both sensors. Unfortunately, not all dealers understand or are able to accomplish a correct alignment on a Spyder. Additionally, if you were to take your Spyder to the dealer, ask them to reset the two sensors, most likely they will not do it based on your words. The dealer tech will insist on accomplishing a multitude of stuff, that may ultimately get done this simple 5 minute task. All the best with getting it resolved.

[Circ]

THANK YOU PMK! That is the most in depth and logical explanation I have received so far. I have been reluctant to take it in to a dealer...again...due to what they told me the first time. Sounds like I need to keep trying to find a dealer with a bit more knowledge, experience and credibility. NOW... anyone have any ideas on where I might find such a dealer. We travel and the Spyder goes piggyback between the Volvo 730 and our fifth wheel which means I am not locked into a particular location. Areas I frequent are: Vegas (as mentioned), Phoenix, Denver and Rapid City. Note: The Spyder looks kinda cool on the back of the truck, I will try to figure out how to add that to my profile page.

[pegasus1300]

Give Young Power Sports in Bountiful Ut (Salt Lake) a call.They have done well for me. Also Moto United in Draper Ut.

[PMK]

THANK YOU PMK! That is the most in depth and logical explanation I have received so far. I have been reluctant to take it in to a dealer...again...due to what they told me the first time. Sounds like I need to keep trying to find a dealer with a bit more knowledge, experience and credibility. NOW... anyone have any ideas on where I might find such a dealer. We travel and the Spyder goes piggyback between the Volvo 730 and our fifth wheel which means I am not locked into a particular location. Areas I frequent are: Vegas (as mentioned), Phoenix, Denver and Rapid City. Note: The Spyder looks kinda cool on the back of the truck, I will try to figure out how to add that to my profile page.

I should add also, ideally, resetting the sensors will end the concerns. I suggest though that it takes only a moment to have the tech note onto paper, the current settings prior to resetting.

Honestly, since you roam about, seriously consider getting in touch with Squared Away. Have them check the sensors prior to any other changes. They then could accomplish the reset, or better still, have them correctly align the Spyder, then accomplish the reset. They could even accomplish a sway bar upgrade or other work you deem viable.

I did notice you had mentioned holding off on alignment until new tires or something similar. Just be aware, the Spyders primitive steering design only allows adjustment for wheel toe setting. There is no caster or camber adjustments to be made. Therefore, I believe it could be a benefit to have all the work done, even if replacement tires are installed at a later date. There will be no need for another alignment, unless you have tapped a front wheel hard enough to bend something.

[PMK]

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...Away-Alignment

Speak with Ann and Joe, explain to Joe what is going on. He has done many alignments and is not a dealer, so he should be able to work with you away from a flat rate pay scale. Unless you went to a dealer tech such ad Shawn Smoake, as I mentioned, the service writer will note your concern. The tech will likely blow off anything you have explained, and then start troubleshooting on his own, hopefully to maybe resolve the issue. Again, all the best with it, but seriously, give Joe a call. Even ask him to read these posts and call you back.

[canamjhb]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. A lot of good advice, especially in the last 2 days. I would trust Joe and Ann (Squared Away) more than most dealers. And, as luck would have it, they are based in Vegas. I know they have been traveling the country for BRP doing dealer demo rides. If they are unavailable, I'm sure they can steer you to the right place to have your issues addressed. Good luck..... Jim

[RayBJ]

Re: Alignment after tire swap.
My RT was aligned with the Kenda tires. I swapped to car tires soon after and put ~3000 miles on the RT before I had it re-checked and the RT was still spot on.

[Steve W.]

Touching back a bit on the suspension. You mentioned extensive experience and changing just one thing at a time. Great concept.

In the 2-wheeler world, I am amused by the riders that install thicker fork oil to prevent diving while braking. It takes quite a bit to convince them that it's the SPRINGS that control how MUCH it dives, the thicker oil only slows how QUICKLY it dives.

Carry that concept to the Spyder "shocks". Remember that the "shocks" are actually two components. The SPRINGS will control how MUCH the suspension moves, the DAMPERS will control how QUICKLY it moves.

Except for the Q5 tires and a Baja Ron (anti-)sway bar, the suspension on my wife's Spyder is all stock. Works great for the way we ride, we have never experienced Nanny. In fact, I had the Spyder in a parking lot a week or so ago, and was able to lift a wheel in a tight turn without Nanny noticing. Not sure that is proper, but we don't ride that hard, anyway.

.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Touching back a bit on the suspension. You mentioned extensive experience and changing just one thing at a time. Great concept.

In the 2-wheeler world, I am amused by the riders that install thicker fork oil to prevent diving while braking. It takes quite a bit to convince them that it's the SPRINGS that control how MUCH it dives, the thicker oil only slows how QUICKLY it dives.

Carry that concept to the Spyder "shocks". Remember that the "shocks" are actually two components. The SPRINGS will control how MUCH the suspension moves, the DAMPERS will control how QUICKLY it moves.

Except for the Q5 tires and a Baja Ron (anti-)sway bar, the suspension on my wife's Spyder is all stock. Works great for the way we ride, we have never experienced Nanny. In fact, I had the Spyder in a parking lot a week or so ago, and was able to lift a wheel in a tight turn without Nanny noticing. Not sure that is proper, but we don't ride that hard, anyway.

.

Lifted a front wheel and NANNY didn't notice !!!!. .... either something is wrong with your NANNY or in all the excitement you didn't see the ICON flash on the dash screen ( which is very easy to do in daylight ) . I trigger Nanny all the time when I'm at 9/10 ths. in the twistie's ... Sometimes I'll see it, but most times I won't, because I tend NOT to stare at my dashboard, when I'm at 9/10 ths. ..... good luck .... Mike

[canamjhb]

A different point of view..... Previously it was suggested to push with the outboard arm and relax the inboard arm in turns. This is not the first time I have read about that technique. In fact, I tried riding that way for quite a while. Then I read somewhere that I should do just the opposite. Pull on the inboard and let the outboard relax. When I switched my riding became much more relaxed and I felt more control in higher speed turns. I don't know all the dynamics. But it seems that firmly planting the outboard foot and pulling the inboard handlebar helped counteract the forces that wanted to throw me from the bike in aggressive turns. I'm not saying one way is right or better than the other. Just suggesting another point of view..... Jim

[Peteoz]

Thanks Jim, I am currently a “push with the outside arm” guy. I’ll give this method a run

Pete

[BajaRon]

A different point of view..... Previously it was suggested to push with the outboard arm and relax the inboard arm in turns. This is not the first time I have read about that technique. In fact, I tried riding that way for quite a while. Then I read somewhere that I should do just the opposite. Pull on the inboard and let the outboard relax. When I switched my riding became much more relaxed and I felt more control in higher speed turns. I don't know all the dynamics. But it seems that firmly planting the outboard foot and pulling the inboard handlebar helped counteract the forces that wanted to throw me from the bike in aggressive turns. I'm not saying one way is right or better than the other. Just suggesting another point of view..... Jim

I use both methods, usually at the same time. I bias which arm is supplying most of the effort depending on the conditions. Both arms are using the effect of centrifugal force as a counter-weight. But you still need to anchor your body well (Before you start into the turn). Momentum can help, or hurt. You can use it to your advantage if you prepare for it. Use your momentum. Don't let it use you.

Experimentation to find your preference is a good idea. Smooth is Fast! Fast is Safe! Safe is Fun!

I can tell you that you have more control pulling that pushing. If you use just one arm, you are using just one set of muscles for 100% of the input. This can fatigue you more quickly. When using both arms, you're using 2 sets of muscles in each arm, and reducing the effort each arm must exert to get you through the turn. It can also help you stabilize your body motions.

If you can get into a balanced rhythm, it helps.

I don't think anyone ever 'Arrives' on this. But when you get to where you're no longer having to think about it. You are getting very close.

[cptjam]

Looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. Looks interesting! Joe

[Circ]

I had not considered implementing both techniques! Can't wait to try that. Baja Ron spoke of 'anchoring' and I believe this is an underrated concept. I engage my core before any motion but especially when combining upper and lower body functions.

[PMK]

I had not considered implementing both techniques! Can't wait to try that. Baja Ron spoke of 'anchoring' and I believe this is an underrated concept. I engage my core before any motion but especially when combining upper and lower body functions.

As a suggestion that I base on decades of experience racing and testing setups on two wheeled vehicles and more. Simply, ensure the Spyder settings are correct regarding the basics of tire pressures, those electronics in question are nulled, and ideally, you have a correct front wheel alignment.

Adding a Band Aid by altering your riding style when any of those settings are in question is compromising not only the handling, but also the safety of you and the vehicle.

There are times when applying that Band Aid is needed, but in simple terms why fight with a poor setup of the vehicle.

When the chassis is correctly set up, the remarks about riding with a looser grip on the bars, body position, even weighting the outside floorboard when cornering, or clamping the dummy fuel tank with your knees, all those things become more natural and instinctive, vs being an overreaction to a bad setup.

A correctly set up Spyder is extremely easy to ride relaxed and with minimal effort, basically you control the vehicle and it does not object, except maybe a Nanny flash occasionally.

All the best, whatever you decide.

[Papa103]

As another poster suggested. You need to find someone who has experience with Spyders and swap machines. See if he has the same problem with yours or you have the same problem with his. If you both agree its your machine then you will at least know where to start. This may save you a lot of time and money chasing a ghost so to speak.

[Circ]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

[PMK]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

Very cool you now have it sorted out. As you learned, and many others should follow, adapting your riding technique to overcome an improper setup is not a great solution.
Out of curiosity, did you happen to note beyond mechanically aligning the wheels, were the sensors far from nulled? Maybe Joe, did not do a before worked on settings check.
Regardless, glad you now have a safer, fun machine to enjoy.

[cptjam]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe