Cornering Nightmare - Update

[Circ]

We have a 2018 Spyder RT which is the perfect vehicle for our needs....unless we are in a hurry. During casual driving it performs better than expected and there are so many things about it that we love. During spirited driving, however, I hate it! There is a sensor somewhere that slams the brakes on or cuts fuel out if it determines I am taking a corner too fast. I believe it to be the brakes but can't tell for 100% sure. This happens mostly in town but also happened the other day on the highway at about 65mph around a fairly tight corner. Mind you, this is not hanging off the saddle, trying to get the back end to slide around (which would be impossible given this feature) but merely spirited driving. I am a seasoned motorcycle rider for 50+ years, having owned everything from 100cc dirt bikes to a Moto Guzzi 1000SP to an '82 Harley Sturgis so I have a pretty good feel for motorcycles and their idiosyncrasies. We have adapted to the Spyder, having put over 10,000 mi on it and I describe the steering as more similar to a snowmobile than a motorcycle.

I have been to 2 different dealers and one of the service techs took it for a test ride, was able to duplicate the phenomenon and told me that was normal. I do not believe this to be the case and am looking for more experienced feedback, explanation or better yet, how do I override the sensor. I will close this with a further elucidation as to how violent the bike slows. My wife's helmet usually slams into the back of mine! followed by a few choice words directed at the manufacturer. I LOVE/HATE my Spyder.

[Rednaxs60]

I'll chime in here. Have had my 2014 Spyder RT LE since end March and have some 7000 Kms on it. You're right as to the snowmobile issue.

Researched the forums for information on these. Had several issues with mine that I have been correcting. I felt that the cornering was not as expected and the ride quality lacked as well. My Spyder was supposed to have the BajaRon sway bar, but the feel of the Spyder when cornering did not indicate such. Found that the sway bar was loose in the sway bar bushings, tightened up the sway bar bushings IAW the install instructions and there was an immediate improvement. Still not up to what I wanted so aftermarket shocks. Ordered, received and installed front/rear M2 shocks.

The front shocks come with 250 Lb springs, the rear with a 525 Lb spring. Thinking for your riding profile, you may want to consider a 300/350 lb front shock spring - minimize preload. The preload for my install and riding profile is 2.2 cm. M2 recommends a max of 1 cm. Have Hagon shocks on my '85 Goldwing Limited edition and the preload adjustment from no preload to full is only 1 cm.

Had M2 send a second rear spring, 700 Lb (600 Lb spring rate would probably be good) - no more bottoming when riding two up, installed it on the rear shock and installed. Immediate improvement in the Spyder ride quality and performance. Had to reset the ACC calibration.

Having mentioned the above, you are probably overdriving the Spyder system(s), mechanical as well. You probably notice that the front suspension in a corner is fully compressed as is the shock, and that the shock does not recover until you come out of the corner. Shocks may be good, but the spring is too soft for your riding profile.

BajaRon has an aftermarket front shock preload adjuster that can be installed, but you still have too soft a spring from what you describe. A new spring with at least a 250 Lb rating along with BajaRon's preload adjuster may work for you. If you keep the OEM front shocks, I would think that changing the spring to a stiffer rate would be beneficial in meeting your riding profile. You won't have any additional adjustments such as rebound damping, but you may find that you don't need it.

From your two wheel experience, you probably know that if you upgrade the front suspension, you will probably be doing the rear. h0grider did a good thread on upgrading the rear shock without going aftermarket. This is a good read: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ension+upgrade I found with the new rear shock that I had to calibrate the ACC system - mine is the remote automatic system. Need the B.U.D.S. software to do so.

In discussion with M2 shocks regarding a front spring upgrade for my application.

My thread regarding what I have done to my Spyder is: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...nance-and-Work I'm using this thread as sort of a journal and documenting what I have done and found.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[EdMat]

Welcome to the wonderful world of living with the nanny, as she is sometimes (*&%(&^% called. I will probably get shot down for saying this but you might try disconnecting the seat switch under the passenger because it is my understanding that when it senses weight the nanny will kick in earlier.


And

[trikermutha]

Unless your driving like a crazy person then that don't sound right. I drive mine at times pretty quick and never had it do what you described. They need to recalibrate something and need BUDS to determine it.
Does it on happen when you are two up riding?

[Spiderfrog]

Solo riding 2021 RTL I can take 90 degree ish turns up to about 30mph have hit 35mph in a little more of a degree turn with no intervention (dampening) from the Nanny haven't tried aggressive driving with a passenger yet any way.

[Circ]

trikermutha, thanks for your reply. While I HAVE been called crazy (on more than one occasion) I am definitely not driving like a 'crazy person' the bike won't let me get anywhere near that level of aggressive riding.
it happens whether I am riding alone or 2 up. More info: I weigh 150 lbs and my beautiful assistant weighs 110... "115 on a bad day" she says. Please forgive my ignorance but what is BUDS?

[JayBros]

If you have not read your operator's guide begin this time at pg 51 and read through pg. 55. Yes, you have lots of motorcycle experience and for that reason there are some things you have to unlearn because the Spyder does not behave like a two wheeler. That said, to take curves on the roadster you should lean into the turn, forward and over the inside bar, and plant your outside foot hard on the floorboard. If you are riding two up instruct your pillion to follow your body movements, just as she should if you were riding a tandem bicycle. IMO, if one is riding at 65 and sets off the Vehicle Stability System in a tight curve one is riding over one's head for one's level of experience with the Spyder.

[Circ]

Thanks EdMat, I did try to research this phenomenon on the forum before I posted this and discovered the Nanny but no one seems to have any where near this degree of Nanny intervention. The dealer told me there was no way to disable it. Your suggestion might help when we are 2 up but it also happens when I'm solo.

[Circ]

Thank you for your reply JayBros. Because the Spyder is a different vehicle I DID read the owners manual in its entirety before extensive riding. I re-read the pages you suggested to see if I missed anything. I have been applying the techniques you (and the manual) recommend ever since my first ride. I agree with you that riding a Spyder in a 'tight' curve at 65mph could be very dangerous. Which is why I used the term 'fairly tight' to define the curve. I do NOT in any way feel I was riding any where near over my head (my passenger concurs). I was merely attempting to illustrate that the VSS or nanny comes on at all speeds and it is my strong belief there is no way it should have come on during that turn. I have found that prior to entering a turn, I drop my inside elbow and begin to push on the outside bar (much like a snowmobile). This motion sets up the body position you described.

[RICZ]

I saw MTV's (Martin The Vlogger) under the passenger seat switch cancel outer and made my own using an appropriate size plastic bottle cap. I placed it under the stock "button" so it won't depress. That switch numbs the performance and heightens the nanny's sensors when there's a passenger on board. The trouble is, if you place a heavy case on the passenger seat, it does the same thing.

[Rednaxs60]

trikermutha, thanks for your reply. While I HAVE been called crazy (on more than one occasion) I am definitely not driving like a 'crazy person' the bike won't let me get anywhere near that level of aggressive riding.
it happens whether I am riding alone or 2 up. More info: I weigh 150 lbs and my beautiful assistant weighs 110... "115 on a bad day" she says. Please forgive my ignorance but what is BUDS?

B.U.D.S. software is what you need to use to do a bit of maintenance on your Spyder, check calibrations and the like. You can check it out at this site: https://www.powersports-diag.com/en/...tec-e-tec.html I have this software and consider it essential if you are a DIY work/maintenance person, as are the service manuals.

[ARtraveler]

Living with "nanny" is a part of Spyder ownership. That said, you have to be going pretty hard and fast for "nanny" to kick in. I have had "nanny" kick in four times in my eleven year ownership of Spyders. Twice gaining control over "hydroplaning" incidents, and twice while doing spirited riding on twisties here in Arkansas.

"Nanny" senses the bike losing its grip, and that is when it kicks in. My usual rule, if I enter a curve and have to use the brakes to be safe, I am going to fast. I like to be able to accelerate during the turn. I can easily exceed 20 mph above posted, but am more comfortable with 10 - 15.

Have not heard of a "nanny" being overly intrusive. But, that is not saying you may have an issue on your Spyder.

[JayBros]

...I was merely attempting to illustrate that the VSS or nanny comes on at all speeds and it is my strong belief there is no way it should have come on during that turn...

The turn is a good example of the involvement of the yaw sensor in the VSS; unfortunately BRP does not publish, at least not to us poor guinea pigs, all the factors and parameters that activate and how they control the VSS. I will tell you that in a curve situation similar but at slower speed than yours an oncoming car partly in my lane forced me to quickly and drastically change my line in the curve, had to severely tighten it, and the VSS not only killed the throttle but also applied the left front brake so hard it smoked the tire. Fortunately the oncoming driver got out of my lane and Nanny kept me out of a ditch so I'm here to relate the incident.

[RayBJ]

I ride hard and the nanny was really messing up my cornering frequently UNTIL I replaced the OEM tires with Q5s and the added traction reduced the nanny to an occasional intervention. Swapping the shocks & sway bar added to the muting of her.

[Longtimer]

Find someone in your area that has a spyder let them ride it and see what they think or go to a dealer and test ride one on the same road and see if it does it and also check your tire pressure to make sure you are not over or under inflated and what's contion of you tires tread wise

[Circ]

Rednaxs60 Thank you very much for your input and for the links. I will look into purchasing the BUDS, it sounds very helpful. Also appreciate your ideas of upgrading suspension. I notice one front shock is compressing or compressed when the VSS decides it needs to protect me from myself. Since neither my wife nor I weigh a lot (well under 300 between the 2 of us) I had not considered a fairly new vehicle to need new shocks.

[Circ]

Thanks RayBJ, I intend to put a swaybar on but I wanted to get to know the bike first. Plus my CFO has not given authorization for that upgrade yet. No offense but I am sooo glad I am not the lone ranger (rider?) here. I was beginning to think I got an anomaly. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience. I look forward to trying your suggestions.

[Rednaxs60]

Rednaxs60 Thank you very much for your input and for the links. I will look into purchasing the BUDS, it sounds very helpful. Also appreciate your ideas of upgrading suspension. I notice one front shock is compressing or compressed when the VSS decides it needs to protect me from myself. Since neither my wife nor I weigh a lot (well under 300 between the 2 of us) I had not considered a fairly new vehicle to need new shocks.

Most welcome. The B.U.D.S. software may be able to identify some issues not considered such as the calibration of the ACC system - rear air system, may need to be calibrated, mine did.

You wouldn't think a fairly new vehicle would need upgraded shocks. My 2014 had 9100 Kms on it four months ago, now has over 16K Kms. Shocks were probably still good, but for my riding profile and when riding two up, the OEM shocks were not up to the task. I'm never sporty when riding two up, but when solo riding I do like to push myself a bit. I noticed early on with my Spyder that even at posted speed limits in corners/curves such as on a cloverleaf off/on ramp, and riding solo, the front suspension was completely compressed - BajaRon's sway bar installed, not good. I would have to slow to bellow the posted speed limit to make a difference in the lean/roll of the Spyder. Made up my mind to correct this soonest, new shocks ordered. Have since installed new tires, but do not attribute the old tires to this issue.

The issue I have with suspension is that it is primarily there to support the weight of the vehicle, in this case the Spyder. The spring supports the Spyder weight and additional load, the shock controls the oscillation of the spring. These RTs have a high centre of gravity and with this comes more lean/roll in corners and curves.

If you can see the front suspension compressed, the amount of force on the front end is overpowering the front shocks and springs. I installed M2 shocks and have been watching closely to determine how much compression the front end is doing, but have yet to see a discernable amount. My Spyder does lean/roll, but the amount of lean/roll is greatly reduced compared to the OEM shocks, and the lean/roll is being absorbed by the shock spring. Have to compress the shock spring on the M2 shocks considerably to replicate how the OEM shock performs. I would expect the design of the shock contributes to this as well in that it controls spring oscillation very well. I would think a good aftermarket shock such as Elkas, Wilbers and the likes will do the same, I just happen to have settled on M2 shocks.

If you have the ACS automatic rear load leveling system, this affects the front end as well. The rear shock is not adjustable, and is designed to provide a "Cadillac" ride. Soft, plush, and such, the same with the front suspension. The air pressure in the air shock is used to maintain a ride height, but in doing so, makes the rear of the Spyder firmer and with this less weight transfer aft when riding. Going into a corner/curve at speed, and you haven't shed enough speed before entering the turn puts more downward force on the front of your Spyder. This force is in addition to the weight of the Spyder and the additional weight of the rider(s), and the front suspension has to work against this additional force so it is easy to overpower the front suspension. Have a look at the bumper stop on the front shock(s) after a good, spirited ride and you will probably find the bumper hard up against the top of the shock spindle.

BRP has to design, produce and market a product that suits a wide variety of purchasers, so a more spirited rider such as yourself regardless of personal weight is an anomaly to its marketing. This is why I mentioned the thread from h0grider in a previous post for the rear shock, and a low cost front suspension improvement.

Into the suspension aspect at this time because I am setting up my Spyder with the new M2 shocks. Once it is done, I'll move onto the next issue.

Good luck.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The yaw sensor is a key input into Nanny, so you will want make changes mentioned above to keep your Spyder more level in corners. Consider changing to the F3 in the future. It is designed for more aggressive riding than the RT. I've had Nanny hold back on the throttle quite often when I'm first in line at a traffic light and make a spirited left turn when the light changes!

My thought is you are a more aggressive rider than you realize.

[WilcoJunoHotel]

Agree with what others have posted that something doesn't sound quite right with your Spyder. I frequently get the brief slight "retard throttle" moment but I have only had it apply the brakes 1 time in 5000 miles of hard riding and that was up on the Dragon on one of those tight, hard, off-camber turns. I guess I didn't brake enough and about mid-turn I felt the brakes applied hard enough to slow me down about 5mph AND it wasn't just a momentary thing - It lasted a full 2-3 seconds.

[pidjones]

I ride less "spirited" than you, maybe. And I do have a '21 RTL with lowered COG and perhaps improved suspension. Only have a couple thousand on it so far, but the road we live off of has much tighter turns that the Dragon and I've yet to feel Nanny kick in.

[BajaRon]

We have a 2018 Spyder RT which is the perfect vehicle for our needs....unless we are in a hurry. During casual driving it performs better than expected and there are so many things about it that we love. During spirited driving, however, I hate it! There is a sensor somewhere that slams the brakes on or cuts fuel out if it determines I am taking a corner too fast. I believe it to be the brakes but can't tell for 100% sure. This happens mostly in town but also happened the other day on the highway at about 65mph around a fairly tight corner. Mind you, this is not hanging off the saddle, trying to get the back end to slide around (which would be impossible given this feature) but merely spirited driving. I am a seasoned motorcycle rider for 50+ years, having owned everything from 100cc dirt bikes to a Moto Guzzi 1000SP to an '82 Harley Sturgis so I have a pretty good feel for motorcycles and their idiosyncrasies. We have adapted to the Spyder, having put over 10,000 mi on it and I describe the steering as more similar to a snowmobile than a motorcycle.

I have been to 2 different dealers and one of the service techs took it for a test ride, was able to duplicate the phenomenon and told me that was normal. I do not believe this to be the case and am looking for more experienced feedback, explanation or better yet, how do I override the sensor. I will close this with a further elucidation as to how violent the bike slows. My wife's helmet usually slams into the back of mine! followed by a few choice words directed at the manufacturer. I LOVE/HATE my Spyder.

There are a number of things that enter into this equation. The first is riding style. You may already know this and are already taking these steps. But it's worth revisiting.

There is a saying that 'Smooth is Fast'. Sudden or jerky movements into a turn can really upset the Nanny and cause her to react in the ways that you describe. Working on braking before the turn, entering wide, turning to the apex and accelerating out can go a long way towards reducing or eliminating the Nanny's interference. To a point. Because 'Smooth is Fast' will eventually run up against the suspension deficiencies built into the Spyder which, in my opinion, severely limit the excellent handling that the Spyder is capable of. Various models and years have varying amounts of this problem. Some being much worse than others.

At the very front of the line is that the stock sway bar is too weak, and there is no Pre-Load adjustment on the front shocks. Upgrading the sway bar will make a big difference to handling, stability, and toning down the Nanny. She never goes away, (which is a good thing, because she is needed) but these suspension improvements will go a long way towards managing her.

The sway bar does things that the shocks cannot do. And the shocks do things that the sway bar cannot do. Depending on how you approach these 2 components, trying to compensate for one with the other can give an unnecessarily harsh ride at the benign end. And a dangerous ride at the other end. The sway bar and shocks will, ideally, work in harmony to give you both awesome, confidence inspiring handling, and a great ride.

Many people stop with the sway bar, or upgraded shocks. But if whichever path you decide to take does not quite get you to WHERE you want to go. Upgrading the component you didn't address is usually the next step to take. The sky is pretty much the limit for what you can spend in this pursuit. But you can achieve probably 90% of the machines potential without braking the bank. And frankly, 90% is probably more than most will ever use.

[Rednaxs60]

Agree with BajaRon. Suspension is a package deal. There will be a difference with each change, but only for what the component is designed for. I mentioned having to secure the sway bar bushings on my Spyder, these were loose. Made a difference but still could not fully compensate for the excessive lean/roll. Add new shocks, now we're getting somewhere.

BajaRon's sway bar and BajaRon's front shock preload adjusters, with new front shock springs will make a huge difference. May also wan to read this thread by spacetiger: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ont-Suspension Check out the spring collection on eBay.

Some innovative ideas out there.

Cheers

[KX5062]

I also agree with all that's been written and would second the motion that the stock Kenda tires are not up to the task either. The difference in handling between the OEM Kenda's and top notch automotive tire is both subtle and dramatic at the same time.

[ThreeWheels]

This thread is getting a bit too long to read all the comments, so I'm probably repeating what's been said.
The Spyder has a VSS (Vehicle Stability System) otherwise known as "The Nanny" (with apologies to Fran Drescher).
Basically, it doesn't let you do any maneuvers that could cause a roll over.
The first time mine kicked in while making an accelerating left turn at an intersection during traffic, well, it caused a skidmark in my shorts because I thought I wouldn't get out of the way of an incoming car.
The point is, the nanny will kick in and slow the bike down in certain situations to save your ass.
I see two possibilities:
If the nanny is faulty in some fashion, it might kick in prematurely,
There are a myriad of sensors that go into the nanny, including wheel speed, handlebar angle, engine speed, and who knows what else. I think the color of the Spyder is also a factor. We all know the Anthracite Gray is the fastest color.
Have the dealer check out all the sensors and the sensor connection to make sure the VSS system is running properly and that you have the latest updates.
If the nanny is functioning properly, then you're overdriving the nanny, probably driving on the verge of unsafe, and need to tone it down a bit.
The RT is, essentially a touring machine.
Perhaps you'd be happier with an F3 or Ryker, something that's more sporty ?

As always, my free advice comes with a double your money back guarantee,