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  1. #1
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    Default RT engine vs Gold Wing engine

    Ok let me start by saying this is more of a question and answer thread, because i dont know much about the true facts about the wing engine. Hear is my two cents. we are already hearing that the engine on the RT is to small and the gas milage is bad, before 99% of the people have even riden the RT. it is not a 30 year old concept like the gold wing, it is all new, i thing the BRP design team did a great job on the first two models in three years in the market of on the road riding, here again is my two cents.
    RT vs GW
    lets say the RT gets 30 mpg and the GW gets 40 mpg.
    30 x 6 = 180 miles
    40 x 6 = 240 miles
    so we spending $ 25000.00 on the machine, are we worried more about the extra $ 5.00 it cost us to go 60 more miles or that we could ride 60 more miles?
    I think if we are spending $ 25,000.00, $5 bucks is not going to make me buy a GW.

    Second= what is the percentage of people that ride over 180 miles without stopping. not me!
    Third = RT will go over the US speed limit, so how fast do you need to go?

    When you go buy a new car do you buy the one that gets 40 mpg over the one that get 30 mpg. or how far you can go on a tank of gas, NO you buy the one you like the best.

    Can't wait for my RT-S and trailer to get here.

  2. #2
    Mod Maniac ataDude's Avatar
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    You just have to ride one to believe how torque-y (is that a word?) the 1800cc engine is (or the 1500cc for that matter).

    You can lug it down to about 15mph in 5th and still nicely accelerate... without roughness or hurting the engine. Plus, they are bulletproof... hundreds of thousands of miles on engines without ever opening them up. That's the rule, not the exception.

    I have a Valkyrie... which has a modified GW 1500cc engine... and it is the same... torque-y and bulletproof.

    Did I mention smooth? Ever hear of the nickel trick? On the Valk, you can place a nickel on it's edge on one of the valve covers and start it up, gun it... whatever... the nickel stays in place.

    Did I mention I'm a huge fan of Honda's flat six engines?

    But... I'm with you... mileage is secondary to a large degree. And range... it doesn't matter much either... I like to get off every 100 miles or so.
    .
    Last edited by ataDude; 09-15-2009 at 09:29 PM.
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    There are two kinds of people: (1) those who can read, reason and apply the experiences of others; and (2) those who just have to pee on the electric fence. ataDude, 2009

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  3. #3
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    "When you go buy a new car do you buy the one that gets 40 mpg over the one that get 30 mpg. or how far you can go on a tank of gas, NO you buy the one you like the best."

    In this day and age, all things being equal, of course you buy the one with the better mileage. At least I would.
    Love my

    Statistics show that most motorcycle accidents are caused by a defective nut holding the handlbars.

  4. #4
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    Looks like a Goldwing trike doesn't get much better mileage if any:

    http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/s...d.php?t=199695

  5. #5
    Very Active Member BLACK WIDOW's Avatar
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    Default GOLDWING

    Quote Originally Posted by ataDude View Post
    You just have to ride one to believe how torque-y (is that a word?) the 1800cc engine is (or the 1500cc for that matter).

    You can lug it down to about 15mph in 5th and still nicely accelerate... without roughness or hurting the engine. Plus, they are bulletproof... hundreds of thousands of miles on engines without ever opening them up. That's the rule, not the exception.

    I have a Valkyrie... which has a modified GW 1500cc engine... and it is the same... torque-y and bulletproof.

    Did I mention smooth? Ever hear of the nickel trick? On the Valk, you can place a nickel on it's edge on one of the valve covers and start it up, gun it... whatever... the nickel stays in place.

    Did I mention I'm a huge fan of Honda's flat six engines?

    But... I'm with you... mileage is secondary to a large degree. And range... it doesn't matter much either... I like to get off every 100 miles or so.
    .


    Michael


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  6. #6
    Very Active Member Firefly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyryder View Post
    Looks like a Goldwing trike doesn't get much better mileage if any:

    http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/s...d.php?t=199695
    And that is the proper comparison to make in my opinion.

    Give it time---- There will be a Spyder with a bigger engine.

    Spyder #1 - 2008 GS SM5 Premier Edition #1977. RIP after 80,000 miles.
    Spyder #2 - 2012 RT SM5. Traded in after 24,000 miles.
    Spyder #3 - 2015 F3 SM6. Put 13,000 miles on and sold it.
    Spyder #4 - 2017 F3 SM6. Too good of a deal to pass up!

  7. #7
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    My Rune has a modified GW 1800cc engine, My Rune is cammed different and has 6 injectors were the GW has 2. The Rune is as smooth as they come. I seldom think of coming out of 5th unless I'm under 35. Has all the torque and HP most people could ever want. Personally there are 2 things you can never have to much of, clevage and HP.

  8. #8
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    As a big fan of the flat 6 and the Spyder I would love to see the flat 6 in the Spyder, that would be the perfect setup but it ain't happening. You have trade offs. Do you go with the Spyder that is much safer as a 3 wheeler and will do everything needed to do in a real world situation with enough money left over to buy a used RS or do you go with a proven leader in reliability that has power to spare and will most likely out live the owner?

    If Honda made a Spyder like Roadster I would be all over that in a heart beat but knowing Honda they will wait 20 years to see if it's a good idea or not. They just came out with their first side by side two years ago and last year they came out with the Fury (Chopper) way after the chopper crazy was over.

    BRP on the other hand invented the snowmobile, the first sit down PWC, the first two seater atv and now the Spyder. From where I stand BRP still has the passion for what they do and that's why they are moving forward while all the other companies are dropping back.

  9. #9
    Very Active Member BLACK WIDOW's Avatar
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    Default Honda vs BRP

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamonster View Post
    As a big fan of the flat 6 and the Spyder I would love to see the flat 6 in the Spyder, that would be the perfect setup but it ain't happening. You have trade offs. Do you go with the Spyder that is much safer as a 3 wheeler and will do everything needed to do in a real world situation with enough money left over to buy a used RS or do you go with a proven leader in reliability that has power to spare and will most likely out live the owner?

    If Honda made a Spyder like Roadster I would be all over that in a heart beat but knowing Honda they will wait 20 years to see if it's a good idea or not. They just came out with their first side by side two years ago and last year they came out with the Fury (Chopper) way after the chopper crazy was over.

    BRP on the other hand invented the snowmobile, the first sit down PWC, the first two seater atv and now the Spyder. From where I stand BRP still has the passion for what they do and that's why they are moving forward while all the other companies are dropping back.

    Yes, I pretty much agree on all counts. I understand that Honda was seriously considering building a 3-wheel Trike (2 back-1 front) and the idea was put on hold because of the product liability issue. Honda took a beating after building and selling the 3-wheel ATV's (remember those issues). I know that BRB is not done with touring machines and I think we all know that engine options are coming sooner maybe than later. IMHO
    I think the best is yet to come. Don't count Honda out either; they didn't become the world's largest Motorcycle manufacturer by being stupid.


    Michael


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  10. #10
    Very Active Member Dudley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyryder View Post
    Looks like a Goldwing trike doesn't get much better mileage if any:

    http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/s...d.php?t=199695

    Thank you for this information. It is very informative for those who are looking for comparison.
    2008 GS SE5 in 2008
    Traded at 43,000 miles for a left over
    2010 RT SM5 in 2011
    Traded at 57,000 for a left over
    2014 RTS SE6 in 2015, which has 35,000 miles
    Oct 19th, 2017, totaled 2014 RT while killing a Javaline
    Dec 12th, 2017 drove a 2017 F3L home. What an awesome machine!

    Never had any breakdown stranded issues.

  11. #11
    Very Active Member retread's Avatar
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    When I ask conversion trike owners about their gas mileage, they change the subject. Any 3 wheeler is going to get less mileage than a comparable 2 wheeler, laws of physics kick in.

    john

  12. #12
    Registered User Magic Man's Avatar
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    So my question is....

    Why does everybody seem to be shocked that a motor almost twice the size (998cc to 1800cc) with 3 times the cylinders is more powerful and smoother than the V-Twin Spyder motor?

    Given that thinking the 6 cylinder GW is way down on power compaired to the 6 cylinder Volvo 16 liter engine in my tractor trailer.

    The old saying "THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT" has not been around so long for no reason.

    I'm not really sure how many people will really be torn between a 2 wheeled GW and a 3 wheeled Spyder ether. It's really two different kinds of bikes for sure. Both for touring but different.

    Now if we want to talk 3 wheels, than the Spyder's mileage next to a 3 wheeled GW is not that far off, and once the GW starts pulling all the extra weight as a 3 wheeler it's performance goes way down as well.

    Then there is the whole price issue too. An RT will be far cheaper than a 3 wheeled GW by a good deal. So, how much gas can you buy with 15K?

    Also, how is that factory warranty on the GW once you start pulling a trailer with it?

    Take the only other major OEM trike out there, the Tri Glide by HD and the Spyder looks GREAT on every count. Price, power, mpg, trailer pulling, and on and on.

    All I can say is, if you want a Spyder to be a GW than you are missing the whole Spyder thing big time. There will ALWAYS be somebody making something that may have a better this or that when looked at one at a time. But overall I think the Spyder is the best major OEM made 3 wheeler out there, hands down.

    Now, if you want to compair it to all bikes (2 wheeled units) I'm sure there may be some shortcomings, but then it's not suposed to be a 2 wheeler ether.

    MM
    Last edited by Magic Man; 09-16-2009 at 04:37 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Man View Post
    So my question is....

    Why does everybody seem to be shocked that a motor almost twice the size (998cc to 1800cc) with 3 times the cylinders is more powerful and smooth than the V-Twin Spyder motor?

    Given that thinking the 6 cylinder GW is way down on power compaired to the 6 cylinder Volvo 16 liter engine in my tractor trailer.

    The old saying "THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT" has not been around so long for no reason.

    I'm not really sure how many people will really be torn between a 2 wheeled GW and a 3 wheeled Spyder ether. It's really two different kinds of bikes for sure. Both for touring but different.

    Now if we want to talk 3 wheels, than the Spyder's mileage next to a 3 wheeled GW is not that far off, and once the GW starts pulling all the extra weight as a 3 wheeler it's performance goes way down as well.

    Then there is the whole price issue too. An RT will be far cheaper than a 3 wheeled GW by a good deal. So, how much gas can you buy with 15K?

    Also, how is that factory warranty on the GW once you start pulling a trailer with it?

    Take the only other major OEM trike out there the Tri Glide by HD and the Spyder looks GREAT on every count. Price, power, mpg, trailer pulling, and on and on.

    All I can say is, if you want a Spyder to be a GW than you are missing the whole Spyder thing big time. There will ALWAYS be somebody making something that may have a better this or that when looked at one at a time. But overall I think the Spyder is the best major OEM made 3 wheeler out there, hands down.

    Now, if you want to compair it to all bikes (2 wheeled units) I'm sure there may be some shortcomings, but then it's not suposed to be a 2 wheeler ether.

    MM
    Yes, could not have put it better! The Spyder is a unique vehicle. We should truly appreciate and embrace its singularity.

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  14. #14
    Very Active Member BLACK WIDOW's Avatar
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    Default Trike

    Quote Originally Posted by retread View Post
    When I ask conversion trike owners about their gas mileage, they change the subject. Any 3 wheeler is going to get less mileage than a comparable 2 wheeler, laws of physics kick in.

    john
    The group I ride with, of which there are three Goldwing trikes all get in the lower to upper 30's depending on conditions. This is usually always with 2 up and some luggage. We usually fill our rides up at the same stop so I see what they all put in (Kind of a contest). I usually win because mine usually takes more fuel. I didn't buy my Spyder for Gas mileage so I just tell them that a racing machine will always take more fuel and they all think the Spyder is very fast.Hope we never have to actually race!


    Michael


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  15. #15
    Registered User Magic Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamonster View Post
    the first sit down PWC
    BRP's PWC was actually the First PWC sold period.

    It was out before Kawaski started selling the Jet-Ski.

    It had some clutch and water issues and was not sold very long, but it was still the first PWC sold.

    MM
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  16. #16
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    Default The Real Issue

    Let's face it guys, all the tech talk is okay BUT the Spyder is a chick magnet. I've had more women want to sit on the Spyder than would ever want to sit on a GW. (Haven't told my wife yet).
    Happy owner, so far

  17. #17
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    Default mpg

    your darn right i look at mpg. i live rio rancho nm. at 5000ft. i drive moderately. whether its around toen or mixed driving, i am getting a constant 39mpg. lamont posted that he usually gets 32mpg when he pulls
    his trailer. 2 people i know have gold wings 2 and 3 wheelers. the 2 gets 45 to 48 mpg and the trike gets 38 to 40 mpg. both are 1800's.
    its not just the torque, its the gearing. if the hondas were geared like the
    spyder thet would be getting terrible mpg too.
    lamont posted that the torque on the new spyder comes on at 1000rpm
    sooner. my 2008 spyder pulls from 2700rpms in all gears even riding 2 up.
    according the posts i have read the rpms on the new rt rpms are 5500 at
    75mph. the same as my spyder. in 5th gear. as i have said before they
    can easily have 5th gear 4500rpms at 75mph. i do not think having a bigger engine is going to help if brp cannot figure out how to gear it
    properly. also remember some of the 1st spyders had some problems.
    even if i decide to buy an rt. it wont be the 1st year. and it will not
    happen untill they improve the mpg.

  18. #18
    Registered Users Dragonrider's Avatar
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    Well, my SM5 gets 27, my K1200LT gets 58, my V-Rod gets 35, and my Valk gets 38 (BTW attadude, my Valk's license is "F6" - eat your heart out)

  19. #19
    Very Active Member chris56's Avatar
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    i think the times of the goldwings are gone .. now we live in the spyder-century..
    to discuss about the 2 engines - we need the weight first..
    so the spyder would be 20% (?) more heavier with this flat6..
    so also more mpg aso..
    as far as i know the rotax is they lightweights on the market..
    chris
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Man View Post
    BRP's PWC was actually the First PWC sold period.

    It was out before Kawaski started selling the Jet-Ski.

    It had some clutch and water issues and was not sold very long, but it was still the first PWC sold.

    MM
    Right you are. Clayton Jacobson worked with Bombardier to develop the first Sea Doo in 1968. After two years of assorted mechanical and liability problems, they gave up and Jacobson bought the rights to the idea from Boambardier. He went to Kawasaki where they built the first stand up Jet Ski in 1973. Bombardier was five years ahead of Kawasaki who many still believe "invented" the PWC.

  21. #21
    Very Active Member Oldmanzues's Avatar
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    I have been following this for a while. I am starting to get old and wanted a three wheeler. Actually bought a VTX 1300 to trike. Rode several different trike conversions with different bikes. None was what I was looking for. I know, to each his own, I am not trying to start anything.

    I was able to demo a Spyder at Vintage Days in Ohio last year for several miles. Liked it. Went to a dealer for slow in parking lot stuff, bought it. A little over 4K on it in five months. No matter what the age, Spyders are fun and easy to ride. My ST 1100 does not get much use anymore.

    A engine to replace the Rotax. How about a V 4 ST1300 ?

    Old Man Zues

  22. #22
    Very Active Member BLACK WIDOW's Avatar
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    Default Goldwing engine VS Spyder engine

    It was brought to my attention that comparing a Goldwing to A RT/RS/GS engine would be impossible in that they were designed to do very different things. The Rotax 990 was built to be a racing/sport bike engine that developes high HP (for its size) and does it by turning very high PRM. The Goldwing engine, on the other hand, was exclusively designed for a touring motorcycle and the engine is not used for anything else (except the RUNE and don't know what you would call that). So the difference is in the intended use as by design. They are both very good at what they were designed for. The Rotax for high performance racing, the Goldwing for touring. In its present state the Goldwing would not make the best racing engine, as the Rotax would not be the best power plant for touring. IMHO


    Michael


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  23. #23
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    It's not easy to get real apples to apples stats for this but here is what I found.

    Spyder RT vs Goldwing 1800

    Horsepower - 100hp - 118hp
    Torque - 80 lb-ft. -125 lb-ft.
    Weight - 929 lbs. - 928 lbs. (2 wheeled version)
    Fuel Tank 6.6 gals. - 6.6 gals.

    I did find one weight spec for a Cobra Goldwing trike kit of 1080 lbs. Hard to believe that triking the Goldwing would add just 90 pounds.

    Triking a Goldwing does not require adding all the storage that has been added to the standard Spyder for the RT.

    But triking the Goldwing does require adding some heavy components like 2 large automotive tires/wheels, an automotive type differential, axle and suspension. Not to mention large fender skirts to cover it all.

    You do lose the original tire/drive/suspension/fender but you are certainly replacing these with much heavier systems.

    Not only will the Goldwing trike be heavier than the RT, but there is additional power train loss wth the trike system that does not ocurr in the RT.

    So yes, the Goldwing trike power plant is bigger and has both more HP and Torque. But it also has more to deal with in Weight and Power Train loss than the RT.

    After riding with Lamont on his loaner RT, I think those that actually get to ride one will be surprised.

    The RT isn't going to give crotch rockets a run, but I'll bet there are a number of Goldwing owners jumping over to the RT.
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  24. #24
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    Default I've demoed both, sort-of.

    Last year I demoed an SM5 Spyder and about six weeks ago demoed a new unsold 2007 GL1800 Goldwing with a Roadsmith Trike conversion on it. This unit was still priced at $29,999 and it had the lateral g-forces similar to the Spyder to contend with. It had an easy-steer rake kit but still required quite a bit of effort in tight corners. Very roomy and very quiet with a plush ride to it and seemed to have more than adequate power out on the road. Since it cost more than my first house I passed on it. The RT Spyder looks intriguing, but the top shelf model only comes in about 5 grand below the GW trike. I'll still have to demo one when the opportunity arrives as the base RT looks to be a bit less pricey. It still boils down to an apples and oranges comparison in my humble opinion.

  25. #25
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinie View Post
    Last year I demoed an SM5 Spyder and about six weeks ago demoed a new unsold 2007 GL1800 Goldwing with a Roadsmith Trike conversion on it. This unit was still priced at $29,999 and it had the lateral g-forces similar to the Spyder to contend with. It had an easy-steer rake kit but still required quite a bit of effort in tight corners. Very roomy and very quiet with a plush ride to it and seemed to have more than adequate power out on the road. Since it cost more than my first house I passed on it. The RT Spyder looks intriguing, but the top shelf model only comes in about 5 grand below the GW trike. I'll still have to demo one when the opportunity arrives as the base RT looks to be a bit less pricey. It still boils down to an apples and oranges comparison in my humble opinion.
    In some respects I agree, it is apples and oranges. Especially when you compare the price of a 2 (soon to be 3) year old clearance GW trike to a 2010 RT. Though I get your drift it's still not an even comparrison.

    But in other respects it's just 2 different ways to arrive at the same destination and I think it comes close to apples and apples that way.

    We just talked to a guy that had a brand new Champion Trike conversion that cost him $38k. I'm assuming that was the Out-The-Door price, not sticker price. It was a very nice machine but as Lamont went over the RT the GW owner kept saying things like "Mine doesn't have that, or Mine won't do that".

    The real killer was when his wife sat on the RT and said it was more comfortable than their GW.

    Admittedly, she didn't ride on the back but still, it did'nt put a smile on the guys face.

    I'm not saying the RT is a better deal. The Honda is a fine machine that is proven and has something the RT will never have, Honda engineering.

    But I am saying I think the RT has something that the Honda does not, and will give the GW a run for the money. And it's the Apples to Apples part that will make it a competitor in that market.

    It will be interesting, to say the least.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 09-25-2009 at 06:21 PM.
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