Checking The Oil Level

[Adventurer]

The owners manual on my 2021 RT (page 102 & 103) says to warm the engine up prior to checking the oil level by 1. Take a ride of at least 9 miles. 2. Park on level surface. 3. Let the engine idle for 10 minutes then check the oil level within 2 minutes after stoping the engine.

Can someone kindly explain the logic and the why of number "3. Let the engine idle for 10 minutes" after having just completed a minimum 9 mile ride?

Does this mean if I'm out on a full day ride or multi-day trip and I stop for fuel I still need to let it sit and idle for 10 minutes at the pump before checking the oil? I've never seen anything like that on any other vehicle I've ever owned and I don't understand the BRP's logic on that particular instruction.

[2dogs]

Don't feel alone. You're not the only one on that. The 1330 doesn't use oil, I put in 5 qt's when I change oil and I don't look back. Well.......yes I do. I check it on occasion just for the practice so to speak, but it's always on the stick where it is supposed to be. Ditch the 10 minutes and do it around 2 minutes after shut down.

[BajaRon]

Ignore the 10 minute recommendation. It's a waste of time, money, and not good for the engine. (So much for the theory that 'The Engineers Know What They are Doing') The important part is to get the engine oil to operating temperature before checking. Not the coolant. I check my oil level at the end of a ride, or, on a long ride I may check it at a gas station or stopping point along the way. Once you get an idea of how much oil your engine is using (the 998 V-Twin uses oil). Then you will not have to check it as often.

Remember, the BRP XPS oil tends to foam. If you get foam on the dip stick, check again as the foam can give you a false (higher than it is) reading.

[JayBros]

In the 1330 ACE engine there are three scavenge pumps that return oil from various places in the engine to the dry sump oil tank that is integral to the engine, and that return isn't instantaneous. That is why the step is included in the operator's guide. The dip stick measures the oil level in the tank. It's your Spyder, check the oil any way you choose.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ignore the 10 minute recommendation. It's a waste of time, money, and not good for the engine. (So much for the theory that 'The Engineers Know What They are Doing') The important part is to get the engine oil to operating temperature before checking. Not the coolant. I check my oil level at the end of a ride, or, on a long ride I may check it at a gas station or stopping point along the way. Once you get an idea of how much oil your engine is using (the 998 V-Twin uses oil). Then you will not have to check it as often.

Remember, the BRP XPS oil tends to foam. If you get foam on the dip stick, check again as the foam can give you a false (higher than it is) reading.

.... after or during a ride makes lots more sense ( less wasteful of time and money ). ... this is the only way I've done it.... my 1330 uses possibly an ounce in 5000 mi. ( un-like the V-twin ) ... after stopping I let it idle for about 30 to 60 seconds then shut-off and check the level.... I don't remember ever adding oil between changes ..... good mike ... Mike

[2dogs]

Many years ago M/C owners parked their rides on top of cookie sheets. On long rides, if you stopped smelling burnt oil you'd pull over and get more oil. Today things have changed, now we're concerned with carrying extra gas, not oil. When the vintage M/C groups come through town and stop to take a break, you don't want to walk around where they were parked.

[Adventurer]

I think I have figured out a good way to test the Owner's manual 10 minute idle instruction. 1. I am going to take a ride of at least 9 miles, then check the oil without letting it idle, but check it within 2 minutes after stoping the engine. Then, 2. I will restart and let it idle for the recommended 10 minutes and see if there is any remarkable change in the oil level. My expectation is there will not be any noticeable change!

Thanks everyone for your input. @JayBros I don't really understand the scavenger pump thing, seems to me if they are always scavenging oil they would never affect the oil level, but I admittedly don't know much in-depth detail about how motors work.

Let me know if I should modify my test, like on #2 above, should i go for another 9 mile ride, then let it idle 10 minutes prior to stoping the motor? Does stopping the motor long enough to check the oil invalidate the procedure and require a complete restart from scratch? Doesn't seem to me that stopping the motor just long enough to check the oil level, then immediately restarting for the 10 min. idle would have any effect, but what to i know!

[Woodaddict]

a dry sump engine is hard to understand. maybe you could look up by searching internet to get better understanding. many first time owners are "WHAT?????? CHECK oil AFTER a ride or the specified warm up!!!!!" no WAY, I always check cold...................if you do ...........you run the risk of overfilling............even dealers athat not trained properly make these mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Adventurer]

a dry sump engine is hard to understand. maybe you could look up by searching internet to get better understanding. many first time owners are "WHAT?????? CHECK oil AFTER a ride or the specified warm up!!!!!" no WAY, I always check cold...................if you do ...........you run the risk of overfilling............even dealers athat not trained properly make these mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for trying to help me understand this issue. I get checking the oil level on a warm engine but I’m thinking I didn’t make my original post clear enough. The way the owner’s manual is written it basically says warm up the engine by riding minimum of 9 miles and then let it sit and idle for 10 minutes before checking the oil level. It is clear the manual is not saying ride 9 miles or idle for 10 minutes. I just do not understand the idle part of the instructions. I’ll do my proposed testing tomorrow and report back to the thread.

[Steve W.]

a dry sump engine is hard to understand.

Actually, a "normal" dry sump engine is rather easy to understand. It's a Can-Am dry sump that's hard.

The concept of a "dry sump" is easy. Instead of having the oil reservoir under the crank, it's in a separate container. When oil comes off the crank, rods, cams and other places, it flows naturally to the bottom of the crankcase. Instead of simply collecting in the pan, there are scavenging pumps that pump it to the reservoir. This allows the engine to be lowered several inches, which lowers the center of gravity for better handling.

What puzzles me is ... why does the engine have to be run? Sure, the oil is going to expand a bit when warmer, but look at the other fluids on your vehicles. Most of them have "COLD" and "HOT" marks for checking the level. Why can't Can-Am do that for the oil? Some have said that oil transfers from the reservoir back into the engine when it has not been run for a while. Why? If it runs back into the engine, doesn't it endanger the crank by getting too close to it?

Yes, it's a baffling procedure, but most here have adopted the practice of checking it at the end of a ride. When you approach the bike the next morning, just look under it. If it's all dry, the oil must still be in the bike and you are ready to ride.

[JayBros]

What I mentioned about the scavenge pumps was reported by a gentleman at BRPCare named Steve years ago after I specifically pointed out errors in the 2014 operator's guide which was crappy in some respects. BRP did an atrocious job of editing and proofing that guide, even having a picture of a V-twin dipstick that looks nothing like the 1330 one. The scavenge pumps work as a function of not only engine rpm and the gear ratios of the pumps but also as a function of vehicle movement, stopping, starting hard turning, etc. Once the vehicle has come to a stop and sits with the engine idling for some period of time, I don't know where BRP comes up with 10 min., they figure that the maximum amount of "stray" oil that has been moving throughout the engine has been pumped back into the oil tank and it's OK to turn off the engine and check the oil level within 2 min. After 2 min., Issac Newton goes to work and gravity begins to allow some oil to drain back into the crankcase, how much and how fast the engineers don't tell us since they don't need to because if we check the level w/in 2 min it will give us an accurate enough reading on the dipstick to know if the oil level is low or within the specified minimum level, i.e., at the "Min" bump on the dipstick. The 1330 engine doesn't use any appreciable oil so if one fills with the amount specified in the op guide oil change procedure section we're fine. Since oil not only lubricates but also cools the engine I add a bit mort than the 5qt called for, between 6 - 10 oz to bring the level on the dipstick somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the way up the dipstick to the "Max" mark. I too have been a victim of a tech overfilling my engine; that's why I do it myself.

[rjinaz86323]

What I mentioned about the scavenge pumps was reported by a gentleman at BRPCare named Steve years ago after I specifically pointed out errors in the 2014 operator's guide which was crappy in some respects. BRP did an atrocious job of editing and proofing that guide,

coming from years of riding Harleys and using their manuals I agree. The CanAm manuals are some of the worst I have seen. But I like their Spyder

[Adventurer]

What I mentioned about the scavenge pumps was reported by a gentleman at BRPCare named Steve years ago after I specifically pointed out errors in the 2014 operator's guide which was crappy in some respects. BRP did an atrocious job of editing and proofing that guide, even having a picture of a V-twin dipstick that looks nothing like the 1330 one. The scavenge pumps work as a function of not only engine rpm and the gear ratios of the pumps but also as a function of vehicle movement, stopping, starting hard turning, etc. Once the vehicle has come to a stop and sits with the engine idling for some period of time, I don't know where BRP comes up with 10 min., they figure that the maximum amount of "stray" oil that has been moving throughout the engine has been pumped back into the oil tank and it's OK to turn off the engine and check the oil level within 2 min. After 2 min., Issac Newton goes to work and gravity begins to allow some oil to drain back into the crankcase, how much and how fast the engineers don't tell us since they don't need to because if we check the level w/in 2 min it will give us an accurate enough reading on the dipstick to know if the oil level is low or within the specified minimum level, i.e., at the "Min" bump on the dipstick. The 1330 engine doesn't use any appreciable oil so if one fills with the amount specified in the op guide oil change procedure section we're fine. Since oil not only lubricates but also cools the engine I add a bit mort than the 5qt called for, between 6 - 10 oz to bring the level on the dipstick somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of the way up the dipstick to the "Max" mark. I too have been a victim of a tech overfilling my engine; that's why I do it myself.

Thanks for the additional info, I’m understanding better now and as you can tell by now I’m huge on understanding in order to know the why do something a certain way vs. just taking someone’s word for it...character flaw I guess!

But you’ve opened a whole new can of worms for me! Seems like you’re saying when you add the specified amount of oil after an oil change the specified amount barely registers on the minimum fill mark. My 2016 Super Tenere does the exact same thing only it uses a sight glass and the manufacturers specified amount of oil with a filter change barely registers in the sight glass...what! If when it’s full it hardly shows in the sight glass,so how am I going to know if it’s low. Some of these motorcycle manufacturers drive me crazy with their logic! Never had a car or truck that barely registered on the dipstick after adding the amount of oil called for at an oil change.

This is like someone giving me driving directions to somewhere I’m not familiar with and the say turn left a half mile before you get to the bridge! How will I know when I’m a half mile from a bridge I’ve never seen! I’ve had people give me directions like that more than once, drives me nuts!

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks for trying to help me understand this issue. I get checking the oil level on a warm engine but I’m thinking I didn’t make my original post clear enough. The way the owner’s manual is written it basically says warm up the engine by riding minimum of 9 miles and then let it sit and idle for 10 minutes before checking the oil level. It is clear the manual is not saying ride 9 miles or idle for 10 minutes. I just do not understand the idle part of the instructions. I’ll do my proposed testing tomorrow and report back to the thread.

You are correct, for some reason the manual says to do BOTH the ryde AND the 'idle for 10 mins' thingie, while doing either (alone, ie. just one of those 2 choices ) will suffice!

There's lotsa good info in the manual, but sadly, it seems to have suffered a lot in the preparation & translation process..... it's apparent, at least to those of us who try to use the manual regularly, that at least some of the most significant parts of it MUST have been originally written in 'Canadian-French' (or maybe that should be French-Canadian?? ) and it probably made absolute sense originally too - but that version seems to have then been translated into some form of 'obscure English dialect' by a committee of translators who's only qualification seems to have been that they studied 'French' French in Grade School for no more than 1 semester at least 37 years ago..... and somehow, a few inexplicable but 'perfectly understandable' glitches have crept in as a result! (Yeah, right! )

BUT, just to make things a little more interesting and probably to save a bit of money on correcting it all, those glitches weren't ever remedied; instead, it appears they were compounded by re-translating each Manufacturing Year/Model Upgrade's Manual (said reprints being based SOLELY upon the previous year's manual) into a third language (apparently said third language was selected from a bunch of names on slips of paper jumbled in a hat & listed on the proviso that they all differing from the language used in every prior year too) in order for it to be reviewed & 'corrected' by another team of translators; only that review team was completely replaced each year so they had no clue about what it was the last lot were trying to say; besides which, they were all selected from a pool of personnel qualified by speaking/reading ONLY yet another language (ie, NOT French nor English NOR even the chosen 'third language' for that year or any year prior!! ) so that the resulting revised manual for that MY could then be re-translated back into a French-Canadian/English (or was it English/Canadian-French??) argot/patois and passed on for proof-reading & correction in the remaining 16 minutes immediately prior to the deadline for the final print run that year because they were already sealing the crates on those MY Spyders/Rykers.....

So, we can guess that at it's most basic/earliest level, the manual WAS correct (originally, anyway.... maybe?? ) and the minor but completely incomprehensible errors which have crept in gradually since are simply an unavoidable by-product of the absofreakinlutely necessary process of translation, re-translation, translation into a third language for a final review & correction by skilled readers of kindergarten stories in yet another language and ultimately, the final re-translation back into the absolutely clear & completely comprehensible, understandable manual that we all know & love so much today!

It's a bloody good thing these Spyders are such fun to ryde, innit???

[Adventurer]

You are correct, for some reason the manual says to do BOTH the ryde AND the 'idle for 10 mins' thingie, while doing either (alone, ie. just one of those 2 choices ) will suffice!

There's lotsa good info in the manual, but sadly, it seems to have suffered a lot in the preparation & translation process..... it's apparent, at least to those of us who try to use the manual regularly, that at least some of the most significant parts of it MUST have been originally written in 'Canadian-French' (or maybe that should be French-Canadian?? ) and it probably made absolute sense originally too - but that version seems to have then been translated into some form of 'obscure English dialect' by a committee of translators who's only qualification seems to have been that they studied 'French' French in Grade School for no more than 1 semester at least 37 years ago..... and somehow, a few inexplicable but 'perfectly understandable' glitches have crept in as a result! (Yeah, right! )

BUT, just to make things a little more interesting and probably to save a bit of money on correcting it all, those glitches weren't ever remedied; instead, it appears they were compounded by re-translating each Manufacturing Year/Model Upgrade's Manual (said reprints being based SOLELY upon the previous year's manual) into a third language (apparently said third language was selected from a bunch of names on slips of paper jumbled in a hat & listed on the proviso that they all differing from the language used in every prior year too) in order for it to be reviewed & 'corrected' by another team of translators; only that review team was completely replaced each year so they had no clue about what it was the last lot were trying to say; besides which, they were all selected from a pool of personnel qualified by speaking/reading ONLY yet another language (ie, NOT French nor English NOR even the chosen 'third language' for that year or any year prior!! ) so that the resulting revised manual for that MY could then be re-translated back into a French-Canadian/English (or was it English/Canadian-French??) argot/patois and passed on for proof-reading & correction in the remaining 16 minutes immediately prior to the deadline for the final print run that year because they were already sealing the crates on those MY Spyders/Rykers.....

So, we can guess that at it's most basic/earliest level, the manual WAS correct (originally, anyway.... maybe?? ) and the minor but completely incomprehensible errors which have crept in gradually since are simply an unavoidable by-product of the absofreakinlutely necessary process of translation, re-translation, translation into a third language for a final review & correction by skilled readers of kindergarten stories in yet another language and ultimately, the final re-translation back into the absolutely clear & completely comprehensible, understandable manual that we all know & love so much today!

It's a bloody good thing these Spyders are such fun to ryde, innit???

You might be on to something

[JayBros]

To give you an idea of just how much of s**t BRP doesn't give about the up to date status of their operator's guides just look at pg 131-132 of your op guide. The picture of the Spyder on a rollback truck is exactly the same pic that appeared in their 2008 op guide. Yes, the principles of transporting our three wheeled vehicles haven't changed but you'd think the company selling the vehicles would at least update photographs to correspond with the vehicles manufactured in the MY of the op guide. Would Harley, or Honda, or Kawasaki or BMW use 13 year old pictures? Hell no!

[Adventurer]

I’m starting to catch and believe everybody’s drift about the BRP op guide being full of inaccurate info. Very disappointing for someone who wants to consider it their reference bible.

[pegasus1300]

Part of the vagaries of translating from French to English.

[JayBros]

Part of the vagaries of translating from French to English.

And that's exactly part of the problem. One would think that our friends north of the border would hire qualified, competent editorial employees who speak and write the language their largest customer base uses.

[pidjones]

Ok, here's a question that maybe a few can answer: if you also own another Rotax 1330 engine (ATV, snowmobile, jetski, etc.), is the procedure different?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

As I understand it French is the legally required first language in Quebec which means all documentation must be prepared in French and then translated. It makes no difference the largest market base is English. Another issue I've seen is inconsistency in the the nomenclature of parts. Look for microswitch in the manual. You won't find it even though that is the universal English word for the switch for the frunk lid and the parking brake pulley.

[Mikey]

To give you an idea of just how much of s**t BRP doesn't give about the up to date status of their operator's guides just look at pg 131-132 of your op guide. The picture of the Spyder on a rollback truck is exactly the same pic that appeared in their 2008 op guide. Yes, the principles of transporting our three wheeled vehicles haven't changed but you'd think the company selling the vehicles would at least update photographs to correspond with the vehicles manufactured in the MY of the op guide. Would Harley, or Honda, or Kawasaki or BMW use 13 year old pictures? Hell no!

Yes , but BRP is like any other company out there that don't want to spend any more money than they have to, and want to do more with less! Like not change there body styles for how long from start to now? Making us do more R+D for them, and then not owning up to there screw ups and making us pay for them! On and on and the worse part is they are all doing it, and not just bikes!

[Adventurer]

Okay, went for a ten mile ride, stopped the motor and checked the oil level within 2 minutes of stopping the engine. Oil level read completely full, up to the upper ball on the dipstick.

Immediately restarted the engine, let it idle for 10 minutes, stop the engine and within 2 minutes checked the oil again and got the exact same reading as the first check above.

*after stopping the bike at the ten mile mark, I did not move it until after both readings were completed, i.e. both readings taken with the bike in the exact same position no chance in different levelness (word?) having any affect on the reading.

That’s the last time I’ll let it idle 10 minutes just to check the oil.

[Bangorbob]

Lot's of good info. My problem is being able to actually see the oil on the almost same color dipstick. I guess I need dirtier oil.

[Lew L]

.

So easy to lay the dipstick on a paper towel.