Bad Key, not DESS Error - anyone else? Ideas?

[dvmdf]

2015 F3S here with 18000 miles, periodically upon turning the key to "on" position I get the message "Bad Key", If I take it out and reinsert, everything is fine. There's no "DESS error" message, just "Bad key"
Anybody else had that? I am thinking maybe its time for a new battery, I still have the original one.
Thanks

[trikermutha]

The ECM does not recognize the key.

Either module or Antenna.

Or as others like to do is disable it thru BUDS.

[billybovine]

Try your other key for a while and see if it does the same thing.

[trikermutha]

If the ECM does not recognize the key code, it does not allow engine starting. It will also trigger the BAD KEY message in the multifunction gauge as well as a CHECK ENGINE light.

[dvmdf]

There's no check engine light, It happened twice so far, a few weeks apart. Works fine upon removal and re insertion.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

There's no check engine light, It happened twice so far, a few weeks apart. Works fine upon removal and re insertion.

I've had this occur a few times, however like you after removing key and re-inserting everything functions normally .... after my DESS module was canceled and removed, the Bad key has not occurred again .... could re-lated but I can't say for sure. .... a good Tech might be able to trace it back but I wouldn't hold my breath ..... good luck ... Mike

[Jdr00ejr]

My 2015 F3 never gave an error that said "DESS" but did give the Bad Key Error. Its the same thing - but some dashes say DESS and some don't. It may be sporadic now - but will likely get worse and worse. Couple of points of interest - make sure you don't have a phone or GPS around the key area that could be giving off interfering RF noise. Replacing the DESS Module on the F3 is not bad - you need to pull the frunk liner out - and it's accessible from there. Or you can find someone who can disable it for you.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

My 2015 F3 never gave an error that said "DESS" but did give the Bad Key Error. Its the same thing - but some dashes say DESS and some don't. It may be sporadic now - but will likely get worse and worse. Couple of points of interest - make sure you don't have a phone or GPS around the key area that could be giving off interfering RF noise. Replacing the DESS Module on the F3 is not bad - you need to pull the frunk liner out - and it's accessible from there. Or you can find someone who can disable it for you.

I read almost all posts on this forum, and I'm very sure I have read Every DESS post. .... I don't think the " Bad Key " & " DESS " are the same. Also A DESS warning should be heeded. That problem will NOT heal itself. The module will completely Fail at some point - it's operating on borrowed time..... This why I moved mine after it failed and was replaced. Then I didn't need a dealer only the Module. .... good luck .... Mike

[billybovine]

If the DESS module cannot read the key or reads it as the wrong code. The ECM will set a fault and the dash will display the message "Bad Key". So the possible causes are: You have a bad key and it does not respond at all or not correctly. Easiest and cheapest fix. Use the other key. Next possible cause. The antenna could be bad or the wiring to it. Highly unlikely but anything is possible. If the antenna is bad it would have shown up a long time ago. It is a simple coil of wire with no moving parts. Possibly a bad connection, maybe water in the connector between the antenna and the DESS. Take it apart and check it. Last possible cause that I can think of. The DESS module has gone bad and needs to be replaced. That's possible, but try the other key first.

[Jdr00ejr]

I read almost all posts on this forum, and I'm very sure I have read Every DESS post. .... I don't think the " Bad Key " & " DESS " are the same. Also A DESS warning should be heeded. That problem will NOT heal itself. The module will completely Fail at some point - it's operating on borrowed time..... This why I moved mine after it failed and was replaced. Then I didn't need a dealer only the Module. .... good luck .... Mike

I'm glad to hear you are all read up. I am admittedly not nearly as read up as you - but I've also not seen a post yet talk about a 2015 F3 that gave a DESS error - but instead just the Bad Key error. As one who experienced this myself - only ever getting the bad key error - to the point that it nearly left me stranded more than once - I did my own research and replaced the DESS module (which was fairly easy to do on the F3 - as I tried to outline above) and that corrected the problem right away. HOWEVER, Clearly I don't have your tenure and have not read up nearly as much as you - so I'll stop sharing my own personal experiences regardless of if I think they are relevant and/or they might be able to help someone else. I'll just wait for you to come along and clear everything up for everyone. Please forgive me for sharing.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm glad to hear you are all read up. I am admittedly not nearly as read up as you - but I've also not seen a post yet talk about a 2015 F3 that gave a DESS error - but instead just the Bad Key error. As one who experienced this myself - only ever getting the bad key error - to the point that it nearly left me stranded more than once - I did my own research and replaced the DESS module (which was fairly easy to do on the F3 - as I tried to outline above) and that corrected the problem right away. HOWEVER, Clearly I don't have your tenure and have not read up nearly as much as you - so I'll stop sharing my own personal experiences regardless of if I think they are relevant and/or they might be able to help someone else. I'll just wait for you to come along and clear everything up for everyone. Please forgive me for sharing.

and I apologize for sharing what I thought was useful info to YOU ... I will no longer Share anything I'm familiar with ... with YOU PERSONALLY !!!! .... good luck .... Mike .... PS, it would be better if you no longer read anything I post ...

[dvmdf]

Thank you everyone for chiming in, I appreciate all the inputs, thoughts and experiences.

[jcthorne]

Bad Key is the same error as DESS Error. It depends on which dash you have. The 2015 F3 being discussed in this thread has the older style monochrome LCD instrument cluster with very limited text display. It shows BAD KEY for the same error code that later versions and RTs with the color display show DESS error.

The fix is the same. Turn off DESS.

[Spiderfrog]

I am pretty new to the Spyder world, but it seems to me everyone is saying its the DESS, or battery for this type of issue. Is it at all possible it's the key (especially it the spare works fine) or just removing it and trying it again. The keys are programed and just maybe the key got an error in the program (virus if you will) I would try having the key in question reprogramed or even just get a new key before assuming there's something wrong with the bike DESS.

[jcthorne]

The keys are not programmed. They are static and factory encoded. The bike is programmed to accept the key code.

Also this error problem with the DESS module is well known a common in 2014 and newer Spyders.

[trikermutha]

Each key is programmed to the ecm.
Jcthorne hit it right on

[Spiderfrog]

Each key is programmed to the ecm.
Jcthorne hit it right on

Ok, well as stated I'm new to the Spyder world just bought my first one ever 2021 S2S a couple months back. If its a known issue with the DESS on those years I got it, but I would still see if maybe its just the key first before jumping to the bigger parts. The dealer gave me two keys when I bought mine, but when i got home I tried the other key before putting it away and it did not work, wouldn't even turn. keyed for a different bike all together, when I took it back to them they said they would have to order a new key blank and would need the bike to cut and (program / encode) it to the bike. I did not see what or how they did it, but I would guess it involves some form of electronic (computer) set to do it as there are no dip switches on the key. Took about a half hour now both keys work. So maybe not the key but the ECM to key match is off?

[trikermutha]

Since your is a new model take it back and let the service dept fix it under warranty.

[Deanna777]

Since your is a new model take it back and let the service dept fix it under warranty.

I agree!

Deanna

[Deanna777]

I am pretty new to the Spyder world, but it seems to me everyone is saying its the DESS, or battery for this type of issue. Is it at all possible it's the key (especially it the spare works fine) or just removing it and trying it again. The keys are programed and just maybe the key got an error in the program (virus if you will) I would try having the key in question reprogramed or even just get a new key before assuming there's something wrong with the bike DESS.

Send send BRP care an email or call them, OPEN UP a case with BRP, put it thru the warranty.

Deanna

[Peter Aawen]

I am pretty new to the Spyder world, but it seems to me everyone is saying its the DESS, or battery for this type of issue. Is it at all possible it's the key (especially it the spare works fine) or just removing it and trying it again. The keys are programed and just maybe the key got an error in the program (virus if you will) I would try having the key in question reprogramed or even just get a new key before assuming there's something wrong with the bike DESS.

The keys are not programmed. They are static and factory encoded. The bike is programmed to accept the key code.

Also this error problem with the DESS module is well known a common in 2014 and newer Spyders.

Send send BRP care an email or call them, OPEN UP a case with BRP, put it thru the warranty.

Deanna

As jcthorne mentioned, the keys are static, ie passive - it's the Spyder's/Ryker's DESS that 'reads' the code stored on the embedded ROM Chip in the key.... so unless the key's been plugged into a 110/240v power outlet or otherwise had enough (ie, LOTS! ) of voltage/amperage run thru it to fry &/or melt the embedded 'Read Only' chip, it's NOT gonna be the key!!

However, it could be that the Dealer screwed up programming the SPYDER's DESS Module to accept the code that it reads from the key, which means it's still a Spyder/DESS error and not the key!! Aaaand, as you found out by the dealer giving you one key to another machine instead of yours spiderfrog, there's no denying that some Dealers/techs are more than capable of stuffing up the most simple of things, let alone programming the DESS!

So, trikermutha & Deanna's recommendation is probably the smartest thing to do....

[trikermutha]

When you take it in for warranty make sure you bring both keys to be sure both are programmed to the ecu. If you do have a bad module this would be the first posted on a 2021.