Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Active Member TheCajun1957's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kilgore Tx.
    Posts
    305
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default Front Suspension Brain Teaser

    On my 2018 F3L, if I tighten the adjustment nuts so that I compress the front shock springs (harder ride), does the bottom of the tire Toe In or Toe Out?
    2018 White F3 Limited

  2. #2
    Very Active Member Snoking1127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    952
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCajun1957 View Post
    On my 2018 F3L, if I tighten the adjustment nuts so that I compress the front shock springs (harder ride), does the bottom of the tire Toe In or Toe Out?
    Are you referring to camber adjustment?

    2018 RT Limited - Asphalt Metallic - East Valley of Phoenix/ 2018 RT Limited Chrome
    Champagne Metallic Lake Stevens, Wa

    (Champagne/Hooker)Magic Mirrors, 360 LED head lights, BajaRon sway bar, H&R springs and shock adjusters, dash cam, foam grips, third brake light 4 LED strobe for 7 seconds and then on steady, rear LED turn signals/8 ohm 50W resistors, sequential turn signals on front fenders, Federal Formosa's front and General out back, and driver backrest.

    Things that move between machines: Ikea sheep skins, Zuno XT GPS, and extra tools. Hooker is going to be my summer up North and Hookie my winter trike down South.

    (Asphalt/Hookie) Elka shocks on front - BajaRon sway bar, OEM drivers backrest, LED headlights, dual USB with volt meter, dash cam, foam grips - magic mirrors - front tires Vredestein Quatrac SL on PPA ORB Chrome wheels.


  3. #3
    Very Active Member Snoking1127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    952
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    This is what my 2018 RTL service manual says: Camber 0 degrees to +/- 0.5 degrees. So they want the wheels more or less vertical. Chris
    2018 RT Limited - Asphalt Metallic - East Valley of Phoenix/ 2018 RT Limited Chrome
    Champagne Metallic Lake Stevens, Wa

    (Champagne/Hooker)Magic Mirrors, 360 LED head lights, BajaRon sway bar, H&R springs and shock adjusters, dash cam, foam grips, third brake light 4 LED strobe for 7 seconds and then on steady, rear LED turn signals/8 ohm 50W resistors, sequential turn signals on front fenders, Federal Formosa's front and General out back, and driver backrest.

    Things that move between machines: Ikea sheep skins, Zuno XT GPS, and extra tools. Hooker is going to be my summer up North and Hookie my winter trike down South.

    (Asphalt/Hookie) Elka shocks on front - BajaRon sway bar, OEM drivers backrest, LED headlights, dual USB with volt meter, dash cam, foam grips - magic mirrors - front tires Vredestein Quatrac SL on PPA ORB Chrome wheels.


  4. #4
    Very Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Lake Wylie, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,040
    Spyder Garage
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCajun1957 View Post
    On my 2018 F3L, if I tighten the adjustment nuts so that I compress the front shock springs (harder ride), does the bottom of the tire Toe In or Toe Out?
    Since there is no camber or caster adjustment, the only thing that will measurably change is ride height. Toe in/toe out is controlled by the tie rods. The amount of arc travel altered by the ride height will not change the toe setting enough to be as much of a problem as the ride height change. Either way, set the front suspension to the proper ride height for your normal weight load, then set the rear suspension height measurement properly in BUDS, get a Baja Ron sway bar, and a quality laser alignment. Your Spyder will reward you with great handling.
    2020 RT Limited , Marsala Red

  5. #5
    Very Active Member Snoking1127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    952
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    Since there is no camber or caster adjustment, the only thing that will measurably change is ride height. Toe in/toe out is controlled by the tie rods. The amount of arc travel altered by the ride height will not change the toe setting enough to be as much of a problem as the ride height change. Either way, set the front suspension to the proper ride height for your normal weight load, then set the rear suspension height measurement properly in BUDS, get a Baja Ron sway bar, and a quality laser alignment. Your Spyder will reward you with great handling.
    And some good car tires!
    2018 RT Limited - Asphalt Metallic - East Valley of Phoenix/ 2018 RT Limited Chrome
    Champagne Metallic Lake Stevens, Wa

    (Champagne/Hooker)Magic Mirrors, 360 LED head lights, BajaRon sway bar, H&R springs and shock adjusters, dash cam, foam grips, third brake light 4 LED strobe for 7 seconds and then on steady, rear LED turn signals/8 ohm 50W resistors, sequential turn signals on front fenders, Federal Formosa's front and General out back, and driver backrest.

    Things that move between machines: Ikea sheep skins, Zuno XT GPS, and extra tools. Hooker is going to be my summer up North and Hookie my winter trike down South.

    (Asphalt/Hookie) Elka shocks on front - BajaRon sway bar, OEM drivers backrest, LED headlights, dual USB with volt meter, dash cam, foam grips - magic mirrors - front tires Vredestein Quatrac SL on PPA ORB Chrome wheels.


  6. #6
    Active Member ButterSmooth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Central Oregon
    Posts
    470
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Isn't that just a different spin on the 'bump steer' question? How do the wheels point differently as the suspension moves through it's travel?
    Head in the game, eyes down the road... 2020RT
    Spyder Tryke Pylot
    2020 RT , Lamonster extender Petrol

  7. #7
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoFlo
    Posts
    4,300
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Deleted

  8. #8
    Very Active Member Rattlebars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Girard OH (summer) Greenville SC (winter)
    Posts
    877
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Yes, exactly.

    If as he says, he adds preload technically the wheels will toe in from raising the front of the chassis.
    Here's why: https://www.steedablog.com/2018/01/2...eck-bumpsteer/
    to see my 2016 F3-T and many how to's
    2016 F3-T SE6 Roadster , Extended brake pedal for which I drilled out the brake rod yolk to lower it and added spacers to lift it slightly Black/Grey

  9. #9
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,545
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCajun1957 View Post
    On my 2018 F3L, if I tighten the adjustment nuts so that I compress the front shock springs (harder ride), does the bottom of the tire Toe In or Toe Out?
    As the bike lowers on the a-arms, the wheels toe outward.

    Blue Flame Spyder F3-S
    2015 F3S , Blue Flame

  10. #10
    Active Member TheCajun1957's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kilgore Tx.
    Posts
    305
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Sorry about that, yes I ment camber, as I add more preload to the shock, does the camber go more positive or negative? I noticed my tires were wearing a bit more on the inside like the camber was abit too negative. Do I increase the preload, raise the front end or decrease the preload, lower the front end?
    2018 White F3 Limited

  11. #11
    Active Member TheCajun1957's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kilgore Tx.
    Posts
    305
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    I wonder what is the proper ride height for my F3L? Where would I find that?
    2018 White F3 Limited

  12. #12
    Very Active Member Rattlebars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Girard OH (summer) Greenville SC (winter)
    Posts
    877
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCajun1957 View Post
    Sorry about that, yes I ment camber, as I add more preload to the shock, does the camber go more positive or negative? I noticed my tires were wearing a bit more on the inside like the camber was abit too negative. Do I increase the preload, raise the front end or decrease the preload, lower the front end?
    Toe changes too.
    to see my 2016 F3-T and many how to's
    2016 F3-T SE6 Roadster , Extended brake pedal for which I drilled out the brake rod yolk to lower it and added spacers to lift it slightly Black/Grey

  13. #13
    Very Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Lake Wylie, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,040
    Spyder Garage
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCajun1957 View Post
    I wonder what is the proper ride height for my F3L? Where would I find that?
    420mm measured from the upper to the lower shock mount bolts, with the weight of rider, passenger and cargo. From the service manual.
    2020 RT Limited , Marsala Red

  14. #14
    Very Active Member Rattlebars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Girard OH (summer) Greenville SC (winter)
    Posts
    877
    Spyder Garage
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    420mm measured from the upper to the lower shock mount bolts, with the weight of rider, passenger and cargo. From the service manual.
    Image1.jpg
    to see my 2016 F3-T and many how to's
    2016 F3-T SE6 Roadster , Extended brake pedal for which I drilled out the brake rod yolk to lower it and added spacers to lift it slightly Black/Grey

  15. #15
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Greeneville, TN
    Posts
    13,515
    Spyder Garage
    0

    Default

    Love these threads! Amazing how we are able to take a simple question and make it complicated. Then run it off the rails! Not complaining or attempting to flame anyone. I do the same thing! Just saying how much I love it. Though it does give moderator's heartburn at times. Again not my (or your) intention. Just the nature of the beast, me thinks.

    Anyway, as others have already correctly stated. As the frame travels upward (suspension downward) You get an increase in 'Toe-In'. And just the opposite as the frame/suspension travels in the other direction.

    The change seems to be more pronounced as the suspension is compressed than as it is extended. This is why you have to make steering corrections as you negotiate a sweeping or tight curve. As the outside suspension collapses, you get a Toe-Out condition which changes your trajectory, while the lifting outside wheel pretty much maintains it's prescribed Toe-In condition. A Toe-Out condition will cause wandering and difficulty in keeping your line. This action forces you to make steering adjustments to compensate.

    Keeping your Spyder/Ryker more level in turns, while maintaining compliance, gives you much needed stability and cornering ability. There are other factors as well. But this Toe-In/Toe-Out transition is a major one.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 06-11-2021 at 01:01 PM.
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

    Only SLOW people have to leave on time...





Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •