Fans running a lot??

[Lew L]

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Thank you, one and all. Now I'll just have to ride the poor, old, slow V-Max if it ever cool down here.

[UtahPete]

Lew, we just rode our bikes 200 miles in 90+ temps towing 400# trailers and experienced no overheating, even idling at rest for 5 minutes or so or lugging up over a 10,000 foot pass. The needle never moved from just below 1/2 on the gauge.

I got to thinking about what might be different with your bike and all I can thing of is you have done the ECU flash I think. Could that be making it run hot?

Just a thought.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Yes they will ... I recently posted that I was in very heavy traffic ( ie. like a parking lot ) during our past HOT spell .... the Temp reading hit 115 F and yep the fans were running a lot .... however the 1330 stayed at 4 bars and didn't go any higher..... Love this machine ..... Mike

[baxter]

i read most of the pages and comments, i was running along gulf coast last week through hot congested traffic and fans came on quite a bit to the point that both would run after shut down without stopping. with the ambient temp and humidity high thought little about it. the temp gauge was in normal range. finally checked the fans relay by tapping on it and fans stopped running all the time. rest of trip fans came on and off as needed. stuck fan relay….

[Lew L]

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Hi Bax,
If the temp gauge had not almost pegged to the max --- your comments might be right on the money. When I pulled the pump ( DON"T ever do this), a " piece" fell out. It goes behind the thermostat and is in a chamber with a metal plate and a spring. It shouldn't have come loose. New pump wouldn't seal after 3 tries so it's off to the dealer.

Lew L

[trikermutha]

Still wondering why its leaking

[UtahPete]

Still wondering why its leaking

It wasn't leaking before removing the pump, so that wasn't the cause of overheating apparently.

[Lew L]

Still wondering why its leaking

I tried 3 times to mount the pump,lubed the gasket, checked for flatness of the mounting surface, cleaned everything. Still leaked out. It did NOT leak before I removed the pump. I believe the overheating was caused by the " MYSTERY PART" that fell out of the pump when I removed it.

Behind the thermostat there is :

1. A round , flat piece of stainless steel,
2. A short spring about 1 and 1/4" long
3. The " mystery" that fell out of the pump when I removed it. A picture of it is in post #164 with a penny for size reference. It fell out of the pump as I removed it.

. The Mystery part seriously restricted the coolant flow in the pump. After dissecting the old pump I realised I had NEVER seen the three pieces under a thermostat. I honestly don't think anybody else on Spyderlovers has disassembled the coolant pump . My is going to the shop to have a " pro" mount the new pump that I purchased and tried to mount.

[trikermutha]

Yep hope they figure it out why it is leaking.

Yeah your probably right about the mystery part.

Hope you get it resolved soon.

[trikermutha]

It wasn't leaking before removing the pump, so that wasn't the cause of overheating apparently.

Yes I agree. So what is causing the Leak?? I am really curious.

Still its related to the thermostat and mystery parts

[UtahPete]

I believe the overheating was caused by the " MYSTERY PART" that fell out of the pump when I removed it. A picture of it is in post #164 with a penny for size reference. It fell out of the pump as I removed it. The Mystery part seriously restricted the coolant flow in the pump.

I'm not a mechanic, so I have no expertise or experience with this stuff, but wouldn't a blockage in the cooling system cause overheating at any road speed, not just when idling?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm not a mechanic, so I have no expertise or experience with this stuff, but wouldn't a blockage in the cooling system cause overheating at any road speed, not just when idling?

Yes ..... normally over time Radiators can become LESS efficient because of slow build-up of particulates..... think " arteries " like in your body, they " clog " in a similar manner .... Mike

[Peter Aawen]

I'm not a mechanic, so I have no expertise or experience with this stuff, but wouldn't a blockage in the cooling system cause overheating at any road speed, not just when idling?

Just for those who may not realise - the thing about cooling systems is they rarely block completely &/or all of a sudden; instead they tend to gradually block over time & reduce cooling efficiency as they do. Radiators can gradually become clogged with mud or bug debris, eventually stopping the air flow thru them; or over time, water pumps wear out impellers &/or the coolant galleries clog up with cement-like encrustations! When it comes to thermostats, they are generally made so that there's some coolant that will get thru all the time; so even if they suddenly jam shut, there will usually STILL be SOME coolant getting thru & hopefully allowing the engine to continue to run, even if it's not for long &/or not very hard!

Furthermore, most modern cooling systems are designed to operate on a 'thermo-syphon' basis - the airflow thru the front is channelled in such a way that it increases its cooling efficiency the faster you go; and cooling system itself is likely to be too small/inefficient to keep the engine cool at peak load without SOME airflow - the more airflow thru the front, the less the cooling system actually has to 'work' to keep the coolant & engine temp down, because the more the engine can rely on the airflow to do that job! This is so the engine can provide more power at high revs/faster speeds - the fan & cooling system doesn't NEED to run so hard simply to keep things cool, so it reduces its power-sapping load on the engine, free-ing up more of that power to drive the vehicle along!

All of which adds up to the fact that while even a compromised cooling system should be able to keep your engine operating safely when it's idling for short periods; probably also when it's running at moderate speeds/light loads; but as the speed increases & the load on the engine increases, any failure or shortfall in the fairly complex cooling system can mean there's not enough air flow to keep things cool, or there's not enough coolant flow to keep things cool - and neither will do the job entirely on their own! If, as apparently is the issue in this case, the cooling system fluid flow is compromised by a blockage that almost completely stops the coolant from circulating at all, then the engine will eventually overheat at idle; even if it doesn't overheat when it's moving faster & has some airflow to help, as per the system design! Similarly, if the air flow is blocked almost completely, the system will likely be able to keep things cool at idle, but not at higher speeds/higher power demand conditions!

So while they're not the ONLY things that are involved &/or capable of doing this, any issues that reduce air flow AND/OR coolant flow are likely to cause engine temps to rise - either if the engine idles for more than just a short period, when air flow can't help & coolant flow is compromised; OR when the coolant flow is sorta OK but the air flow is compromised, then it'll likely overheat as the vehicle speed &/or power load rises!

Make sense?!

[UtahPete]

Furthermore, most modern cooling systems are designed to operate on a 'thermo-syphon' basis - the airflow thru the front is channeled in such a way that it increases its cooling efficiency the faster you go... the more airflow thru the front, the less the cooling system actually has to 'work' to keep the coolant & engine temp down, because the more the engine can rely on the airflow to do that job!

If, as apparently is the issue in this case, the cooling system fluid flow is compromised by a blockage that almost completely stops the coolant from circulating at all, then the engine will eventually overheat at idle; even if it doesn't overheat when it's moving faster & has some airflow to help, as per the system design!

So ...any issues that reduce ... coolant flow are likely to cause engine temps to rise ...then it'll likely overheat as the vehicle speed &/or power load rises! Make sense?!

I think I understand what you're saying, Peter:

Even if the coolant system is blocked, causing overheating at low road speeds because of insufficient air flow through the radiator (even with fans running), at higher road speeds (and therefore higher loads on the engine), with greater natural air flow over the radiators somehow that compensates for a blocked coolant system and is enough to bring down the engine temperature (because there's no longer the load of the fans running).

Is that it?

[Peter Aawen]

As far as the bits you quoted UP, then yep; pretty much!

[UtahPete]

Is this it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon

[Peter Aawen]

Is this it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon

That's the basic principle, only the system modern ICE powered vehicles use is more correctly described as an 'aided thermo-syphon' system, because it's got a water pump of some type to 'power' the coolant circulation; a viscous coupled fan or two to aid/regulate air flow thru the radiator/heat exchanger; while the rate of coolant circulation thru the radiator is controlled/regulated by the thermostat.

But it's still basically a thermo-syphon system that works on the circulation of both the coolant, that is pumped by the water pump & regulated by the thermostat, and the air that flows/is forced/gets sucked into & thru the radiator & engine compartment. So the thermo-syphon principle is actually working both internally for the coolant, and externally via the air flow!

Make sense?!

[UtahPete]

That's the basic principle, only the system modern ICE powered vehicles use is more correctly described as an 'aided thermo-syphon' system, because it's got a water pump of some type to 'power' the coolant circulation; a viscous coupled fan or two to aid/regulate air flow thru the radiator/heat exchanger; while the rate of coolant circulation thru the radiator is controlled/regulated by the thermostat.

But it's still basically a thermo-syphon system that works on the circulation of both the coolant, that is pumped by the water pump & regulated by the thermostat, and the air that flows/is forced/gets sucked into & thru the radiator & engine compartment. So the thermo-syphon principle is actually working both internally for the coolant, and externally via the air flow!

Interesting. Do you have a source for what just described? I'd like to research it more.

[Peter Aawen]

There's a vast array of info on this Pete, and my knowledge on the subject comes from many years of study & work; so no, I'm sorry but I don't have a single authorative reference source that I could refer you to in order to learn all about it. But I'm sure that if you're interested, you be able to do a bit of research & find a whole more on the subject.

[UtahPete]

There's a vast array of info on this Pete, and my knowledge on the subject comes from many years of study & work; so no, I'm sorry but I don't have a single authorative reference source that I could refer you to in order to learn all about it. But I'm sure that if you're interested, you be able to do a bit of research & find a whole more on the subject.

Maybe this? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the shape of the radiator fins, but I think it does explain how coolant water can continue moving through the system even when the engine is shut off and the water pump not running.

Early cars, motor vehicles and engine-powered farm and industrial equipment used thermosiphon circulation to move cooling water between their cylinder block and radiator. They depended on forward movement of the car and fans to move enough air through the radiator to provide the temperature differential that caused the thermosiphon circulation.

As engine power increased, increased flow was required and so engine-driven pumps were added to assist circulation. More compact engines then used smaller radiators and required more convoluted flow patterns, so the circulation became entirely dependent on the pump and might even be reversed against the natural circulation.

An engine cooled only by thermosiphon is susceptible to overheating during prolonged periods of idling or very slow travel when airflow through the radiator is limited, unless one or more fans are able to move enough air to provide adequate cooling. They are also very sensitive to low coolant level, i.e., losing only a small amount of coolant stops the circulation; a pump driven system is much more robust and can typically handle a lower coolant level.

[Lew L]

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OK---- I've gotten my back Turns out that the second water pump had an internal flaw causing the leak I complained so mightily about. It was a cracked passage in the pump that lead to one of the bolts. It is warrantied so when the shop put in a third one, I was not charged $260 (for a PLASTIC water pump ) for it. The is happily resting in the garage and will be tested before any serious trip. Had a short blast up Mt. Rose Hwy in 98* weather and it ran FINE. Got a new battery also so we're good to go.

Lew L

[K80Shooter]

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OK---- I've gotten my back Turns out that the second water pump had an internal flaw causing the leak I complained so mightily about. It was a cracked passage in the pump that lead to one of the bolts. It is warrantied so when the shop put in a third one, I was not charged $260 (for a PLASTIC water pump ) for it. The is happily resting in the garage and will be tested before any serious trip. Had a short blast up Mt. Rose Hwy in 98* weather and it ran FINE. Got a new battery also so we're good to go.

Lew L

Glad you found out what the problem was, it's good to know that it's nothing you did to cause the leak.

[Lew L]

Glad you found out what the problem was, it's good to know that it's nothing you did to cause the leak.

.

Thanks---- I was doubting my skills for a while. I hate to give up and it cost some but the shop was fair as I know how much work it is to R&R the waterpump.
Lew L

[trikermutha]

Well at least its back running again.

Hopefully that fixed your original problem too.

How the help did the new one have a cracked passage? Defect?

[Lew L]

Well at least its back running again.

Hopefully that fixed your original problem too.

How the help did the new one have a cracked passage? Defect?

Yes it did have a defect. The service manager had opened the pump and showed me the cracked passage and loose piece of plastic. Actually it looked like it happen during assembly of the pump.

Lew L