Red dust of death on front sprocket

[UtahPete]

I've been trying to follow this topic on SL, but between ambiguous subject headings and the SL search engine's characteristics, I've been unable to find a definitive answer to my questions.

I'm assuming it is only the 1330 ACE engine that is affected, which is why I posted In this category. My questions are these;

Which model years are affected by these faulty front sprockets?

Is it only the 1330 engine that is affected?

Is it primarily the F3 engines that are affected, and if so, how are they different from the ones in the RT?

If RT engines are also susceptible, then how concerned should I be with two 2014 RTLs?

If I should be checking periodically for this issue, how do I expose the front pulley for inspection?

Since I do all my own maintenance because my local Can-Am dealer no longer sells or services Spyders, I want to be proactive about this issue before it becomes a major repair job or a breakdown on a long distance trip. Thank you in advance.

[fatboy]

if you dont down shift manually using the engine as a brake dont worry

[bikerchris1270]

I've been trying to follow this topic on SL, but between ambiguous subject headings and the SL search engine's characteristics, I've been unable to find a definitive answer to my questions.

I'm assuming it is only the 1330 ACE engine that is affected, which is why I posted In this category. My questions are these;

Which model years are affected by these faulty front sprockets?

Is it only the 1330 engine that is affected?

Is it primarily the F3 engines that are affected, and if so, how are they different from the ones in the RT?

If RT engines are also susceptible, then how concerned should I be with two 2014 RTLs?

If I should be checking periodically for this issue, how do I expose the front pulley for inspection?

Since I do all my own maintenance because my local Can-Am dealer no longer sells or services Spyders, I want to be proactive about this issue before it becomes a major repair job or a breakdown on a long distance trip. Thank you in advance.

From myfollowing on this subject…..the 1330 engine seems to be the primary engine with this issue as of late.
I would think the F3 model gets more attention due to how easy it is to check visually, fewer body panels.
I believe it’s a 10k inspection service event that should be added to the maintenance routine…..to each their own.

[billybovine]

I've been trying to follow this topic on SL, but between ambiguous subject headings and the SL search engine's characteristics, I've been unable to find a definitive answer to my questions.

I'm assuming it is only the 1330 ACE engine that is affected, which is why I posted In this category. My questions are these;

Which model years are affected by these faulty front sprockets?

Is it only the 1330 engine that is affected?

Is it primarily the F3 engines that are affected, and if so, how are they different from the ones in the RT?

If RT engines are also susceptible, then how concerned should I be with two 2014 RTLs?

If I should be checking periodically for this issue, how do I expose the front pulley for inspection?

Since I do all my own maintenance because my local Can-Am dealer no longer sells or services Spyders, I want to be proactive about this issue before it becomes a major repair job or a breakdown on a long distance trip. Thank you in advance.

Which model years are affected by these faulty front sprockets?
All. The sprockets are not faulty.

Is it only the 1330 engine that is affected?
No. Was a big topic on SpyderLovers in 2011 when I joined. The 1330 engine did not exists yet.

Is it primarily the F3 engines that are affected, and if so, how are they different from the ones in the RT?
There is no difference.

If RT engines are also susceptible, then how concerned should I be with two 2014 RTLs?
Don't be that concerned. Drive more worry less.

If I should be checking periodically for this issue, how do I expose the front pulley for inspection?
Inspect at every oil change/service. Never owned an RT so do not know specifically how to remove the side panel(s)

[EdMat]

if you dont down shift manually using the engine as a brake dont worry

I don't believe that.

[larryd]

I don't believe that.

I don't believe it either...I have a 2014 RTS SE with 30000+ miles and down shift almost every time...I check my sprocket for rust every year when I service it...NONE YET...

I think I remember seeing a recent post from a member (maybe Buckeye Buel or something like that) that had 188000 miles and never did anything to his front sprocket...He did say he replaced the rear sprocket once...

I think BRP installed some sprockets dry, without lube...While some were installed with lube??? Just my opinion...

AND, just like the DESS problems and some others, BRP is not going to own it either...Your on your own...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have a 14 RT with 58,000 + mi. ..... so far No Red dust ..... generally speaking I Let the computer downshift ..... good luck ... Mike

[UtahPete]

I have a 14 RT with 58,000 + mi. ..... so far No Red dust ..... generally speaking I Let the computer downshift ..... good luck ... Mike

Thanks Mike.

[cptjam]

Pete, To check,
Remove left mirror, wind deflector, black frunk panel, upper side panel, middle side panel, push on side panel, splash guard, black lower panel. The front pulley is easy to see then.

[UtahPete]

Pete, To check,
Remove left mirror, wind deflector, black frunk panel, upper side panel, middle side panel, push on side panel, splash guard, black lower panel. The front pulley is easy to see then.

Thanks, Cap'n!

[Cobwebs]

if you dont down shift manually using the engine as a brake dont worry

Just confirming if a massive burnout in reverse has the same effect?

[UtahPete]

Just confirming if a massive burnout in reverse has the same effect?

Do you really think this answers any of my questions? It doesn't.

[askitee]

I've been trying to follow this topic on SL, but between ambiguous subject headings and the SL search engine's characteristics, I've been unable to find a definitive answer to my questions.

I'm assuming it is only the 1330 ACE engine that is affected, which is why I posted In this category. My questions are these;

Which model years are affected by these faulty front sprockets? From my group its been 2014 thru to 2020

Is it only the 1330 engine that is affected? Havent seen it on the Rykers

Is it primarily the F3 engines that are affected, and if so, how are they different from the ones in the RT? They use the same front Sprocket, and yes both models are affected

If RT engines are also susceptible, then how concerned should I be with two 2014 RTLs? It seems pot luck

If I should be checking periodically for this issue, how do I expose the front pulley for inspection? With mine I just bend down and have a look with a torch, but its usually visible in daylight

Since I do all my own maintenance because my local Can-Am dealer no longer sells or services Spyders, I want to be proactive about this issue before it becomes a major repair job or a breakdown on a long distance trip. My last one was replaced by BRP at no charge and I am out of Warranty. Its my third. I do however have the spyder serviced at the dealership that convinced BRP to replace my Front Sprocket and Headlights at my 60,000km service outside warranty. I do think there is some benefit in having a relationship with a good dealership who gets to know you and your habits Thank you in advance.

My responses in bold in your quoted message

[PMK]

If paying someone, ensure they are willing to correctly accomplish the work, AND are willing to apply lubricant on reassembly.

[blacklightning]

if you dont down shift manually using the engine as a brake dont worry

Not true. I have 24k miles on my 2016 F3T and have downshifted manually less than 1% of the time. My front pulley just starting to show signs of the red dust of death. My 2014 RT was a manual and had no pulley issues at 28k miles.

[Snoking1127]

I stuck my phone up by the pulley and took this picture that shows only road dust. Done without removing tupperware panels.

[UtahPete]

I stuck my phone up by the pulley and took this picture that shows only road dust. Done without removing tupperware

That brings up an interesting tongue-in-cheek question; how does a Utah red rock country Spyder rider know?

Thanks for the tip; that's a simple way to check for the 'red dust' issue.

[UtahPete]

Not true. I have 24k miles on my 2016 F3T and have downshifted manually less than 1% of the time. My front pulley just starting to show signs of the red dust of death. My 2014 RT was a manual and had no pulley issues at 28k miles.

The majority seem to think, like you, that downshifting has no bearing on the front pulley red dust issue. So, I'm inclined to think that's a myth.

Does anyone know what causes the problem, which doesn't appear to be limited to just certain models or years?

[UtahPete]

That’s seriously funny. First about not downshifting, then saying “don’t worry”.

Best course of action, remove the pulleys on your machine well before red dust, clean, inspect, and reassemble with lube. Hopefully no wear to the shaft. If any wear on the pulley, replace it. Do not skimp on this. Find a maintenance interval that works for you. If you are doing this yourself, you know the quality of workmanship accomplished. If paying someone, ensure they are willing to correctly accomplish the work, AND are willing to apply lubricant on reassembly.

Are you saying this should be done on every machine with the belt drive? Just susceptible machines? If so, which ones?

Are you also suggesting that once this is done properly, the owner can stop being concerned about it?

Thank you for your knowledgeable input. I find it valuable.

[UtahPete]

My responses in bold in your quoted message

Excellent. Thank you.

[EdMat]

The majority seem to think, like you, that downshifting has no bearing on the front pulley red dust issue. So, I'm inclined to think that's a myth.

Does anyone know what causes the problem, which doesn't appear to be limited to just certain models or years?

You will notice that when downshifting manually or upshifting the good ole computer does a quick RPM match and it's a fairly uneventful and smooth process, that is IF you are NOT manually manipulating the throttle at the same time.

The only way we will know the cause for sure is if someone from Can-Am speaks out or some metallurgist and engineers get involved. My bet goes to we will still be typing about this five years from now.

[PMK]

You will notice that when downshifting manually or upshifting the good ole computer does a quick RPM match and it's a fairly uneventful and smooth process, that is IF you are NOT manually manipulating the throttle at the same time.

The only way we will know the cause for sure is if someone from Can-Am speaks out or some metallurgist and engineers get involved. My bet goes to we will still be typing about this five years from now.

No need for a reply from BRP. Since the spline is not tapered or pinched tight, there is micro movement under extreme pressure. That induces the conditions for fretting corrosion. The oxides worn from the pulley are extremely hard and propagate additional wear.

Straight spline joints require lubricant. Straight spline joints in many cases unless flowed with wet lubricant, should be disassembled, cleaned, inspected, and if not worn beyond limits, reassembled with new lubricant, then reinspected at specified intervals.

[PMK]

Drive pulleys technically are a wear item, same as a countershaft sprocket. Simply prevent the wear.

[UtahPete]

Lets not extend the requirement to all vehicles with belt drive, since some are designed differently than the Spyder.

Suggesting, have your Spyders pulleys removed, all splines cleaned and inspected, if not worn, reassemble with lubricant. Then reinspection / relube at selected intervals. Drive pulleys technically are a wear item, same as a countershaft sprocket. Simply prevent the wear.

I meant Spyders with belt drives, not any machines with belt drives. Sorry.

Do we yet know which model years are afflicted and why? Or, is it just one of those random quality control issues with parts or assembly?

[fatboy]

pmk where is that in the service manual SIR