Front Sprocket Again!!

[Freddy]

OK I read that .... it says NOTHING about " fretting " .... and I think that is the major issue .... Mike

Correct!!!!!! That's because 'it never happened' - like a few other things BRP doesn't admit to. It was the fix for fretting and pulleys falling off 'due to inadequate clamping force' applied to the bolt at the factory (the bulletin said on the page where it shows the X marked on the bolt iirc) which has been increased a couple of times since.

[Mikey]

Isn't that torq spec more now? And I am surprised they did say anything about lubing the splines while your there!

[PMK]

An honest and easily understood technical article about spline drives, spline wear, and spline lubrication.

https://assets.danfoss.com/documents...8en-000304.pdf

[PMK]

Isn't that torq spec more now? And I am surprised they did say anything about lubing the splines while your there!

I do believe the current torque spec represents the previous torque spec, plus run down torque resulting from the thread locking compound.

Not accounting for the run downs added friction, the previous torque spec of 94 lbft may be undertorquing by a small amount. This is one reason why the bolts should not be reused. The run down torque will be a fraction of that compared to a new bolt.

[porkchop1965]

You need to tell my RTL that, when I am coasting to a red light I sure feel every change and the associated speed decrease.

Exactly.

[pauly1]

Dynamic (engine) braking is recommended in every MC training course. H-D has run belts on their machines for 25 years, and while they have problems with belt longevity initially, they are rock-solid reliable. I've never had an issue with 160K miles on them. Something is wrong with the design. That stated, I'd rather lose the sprocket than the shaft. One of our F3 machines has 32K miles without issues and the other needs replacement at 20K miles.

[askitee]

I'm on version 3.0. I'm beginning to wonder if when I visit the gas station and fill I should then check the tyre pressure then check the front sprocket.

Its still hard to imagine that the parent company of Can-Am build aircraft - I can see the planes now

Co-Pilot : "bugger we've lost engine One..."
Pilot : "That's why we have Two my friend"
Co-Pilot : "You didn't let me finish sir...

[Mikey]

Love it!!!!!

[fatboy]

pauly you are talking to different drive trains hd has separate engine and trans with chain turning trans there is a compensator on the crank shaft to absorb the shock of down shifting

[Greven]

An honest and easily understood technical article about spline drives, spline wear, and spline lubrication.

https://assets.danfoss.com/documents...8en-000304.pdf

Very intersting read, well deserved both a like and a thanks!

[PMK]

I'm on version 3.0. I'm beginning to wonder if when I visit the gas station and fill I should then check the tyre pressure then check the front sprocket.

Its still hard to imagine that the parent company of Can-Am build aircraft - I can see the planes now

Co-Pilot : "bugger we've lost engine One..."
Pilot : "That's why we have Two my friend"
Co-Pilot : "You didn't let me finish sir...

Have you ever worked on a Bombardier aircraft? I have, and the irony of your comedy is that the engines are not made by Bombardier. Now if you said the landing gear proximity switch is having issues and I am not sure the wheels are down for landing...

[jcthorne]

if the bolt backs of from the torque of using the trans as a brake it does not matter how hard it is

The engine torque is not transmitted to the sprocket or belt via the bolt. The Bolt's sole purpose is to keep the sprocket from slipping off sideways. Higher bolt torque does NOT reduce wear on the straight splines. This is not a tapered spline so one has nothing to do with the other. The bolt tension does not resist (to any significant degree) the rotation of the sprocket on the shaft, nor was it intended to.

The new white sprocket revised the outer tooth profile to quiet the belt drive whine. It did not change the internal spline or the metallurgy. Nor has BRP claimed the new sprocket has done anything to improve the life of the spline drive.

[jcthorne]

Fretting corrosion is not that difficult to contend with. You either redesign the interface of the joint to prevent movement, or you apply a lubricant and accomplish maintenance events to clean and inspect the splines for wear, if no wear is indicated, relubricate the splines and correctly reassemble.

As I have mentioned previously, the pulley is a wear item, same as sprockets with a chain. Can Am should not recall, but rather publish a service bulletin advising the service intervals for inspecting the splines.

BRP cannot revise required service intervals without compensating owners for the increased cost. The maintenance costs and service intervals are part of the advertised specs of the vehicle. If they revise the service interval, they would be on the hook for the service cost on existing bikes. Going forward it would change but its too big of a cost for them to ever do it.

[fatboy]

sir i said nothing about torquing the bolt any higher

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

.... To the best of my knowledge ( I read every Red Dust issue post ) this problem has only showed up in the models made after 2013 ans mostly to the F-3 .... I think BRP may have changed the main supplier of these parts, or the specs for them ..... BRP has done this with tires and DESS modules .... jmho .... Mike

Good point Mike ... don't forget that BRP did the same thing with the A-arm bushings in 2013 and that became a real safety issue quickly because of the extreme twitchy steering. Initial complaints were from long time Spyder owners that knew to use a light touch -- I think an owner in Arizona was asked to use his machine as a test vehicle to first diagnose and then solve the problem.

Point is, not the first time BRP has "changed specs" (or suppliers) and had things "go south" ....... all the best .... Ann

[Buckeye Chuck 54]

This is a mystery to me. I just sold my 2014RT-S with over 188,000 miles, on the original front sprocket. I replaced the rear at 155,000 but the front looked fine. No red dust.

Chuck

[askitee]

Have you ever worked on a Bombardier aircraft? I have, and the irony of your comedy is that the engines are not made by Bombardier. Now if you said the landing gear proximity switch is having issues and I am not sure the wheels are down for landing...

My coffee is now burning my nostrils thanks to reading your comment

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Its still hard to imagine that the parent company of Can-Am build aircraft - I can see the planes now

Time for some off-topic trivia. The parent company of Can-Am is Bombardier Recreational Products, operating as BRP, Inc. In times past it was the Recreational Products Division of Bombardier who also built aircraft and commuter trains. In 2003 the recreational products division was split and sold off from Bombardier and no longer has any corporate connection to Bombardier. I believe some of the Bombardier family own stock in both companies but that's the extent of any connection between them. I don't recall when the recreational products company formally adopted the name BRP, Inc. So when we discuss Can-Am related issues they don't extend beyond BRP, Inc. and have no relation whatever to Bombardier.

[PMK]

BRP cannot revise required service intervals without compensating owners for the increased cost. The maintenance costs and service intervals are part of the advertised specs of the vehicle. If they revise the service interval, they would be on the hook for the service cost on existing bikes. Going forward it would change but its too big of a cost for them to ever do it.

While I often agree with you on most things, this I do not. Technically the pulley is a wear item. To issue a non mandatory service bulletin, stating the pulley inspection requirements does not mandate Can Am become liable for any issues after the release of the bulletin. That may not make customers happy, but as it is, those customers are pretty unhappy when the pulley fails.

As for trying to convince others here about what the bolt does, save your breath. Myself, I now just post a link to the Dan Foss document, same document I posted several years ago. Those that read it may understand spline drives better, then again, some folks minds and ideas are as closed as a rusty old trap.

[Genradman]

Front sprocket has been replaced, dealer stated there was updated last summer. What that means I do not know. Go to love good service bike was there a 9 am this morning and ready for pickup at 3:15.

Which dealer did you use?....The shop I was using has turned over all the repair staff...

[Chasinsparks]

Motorsports Inc, Hanover Pa about 2 hr 20 mins from you.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This is a mystery to me. I just sold my 2014RT-S with over 188,000 miles, on the original front sprocket. I replaced the rear at 155,000 but the front looked fine. No red dust.

Chuck

Thanks for this info Chuck .... as I said in another post, the spline Fretting issue is a mystery to me .... this has become an issue only since 2017 or 18 ..... glad I still have my 2014 ..... hope things are going well for you .... Mike

[Freddy]

.........this has become an issue only since 2017 or 18 .. Refer to reply 48 again.

[pieman9155]

what is the torque spec's for the new white sprocket

[PMK]

what is the torque spec's for the new white sprocket

Should be 110 lbft with a new unused bolt and clean dry threads.