Oil leak on left side of engine - Troubles continue!

[ARNIE R]

Should have done this 2 years ago, but having it taken in tomorrow while it is still under the B.E.S.T. warranty.

On every oil change since new, there has always been a few oil drops hanging off the bottom of the rubber shift boot. Additionally, there was oil staining on the inside of the left bottom cover directly under the boot.

Then, oil staining started appearing on the left side of the engine, then slowly progressed to drops on the very bottom of the engine and very wet staining around the front belt pulley. I always wiped everything down before putting everything back together, but during the next oil change, the same thing.

It is very difficult to ascertain where the leaking is coming from, so that is why I am having the dealer service department handle it. I am hoping it may be the main seal behind the front pulley and the oil is being "flung" outward and collecting all over the place, but I also see multiple spots that seem to be contributing to the mess. Never so bad as to leave drops on the garage floor, but enough to leave a wet mess on the inside of the bottom cover.

Anyway, we'll see what they find.

[ARNIE R]

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[ARNIE R]

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[ARNIE R]

Well, this isn't going to be fun.

I contacted the dealer today for a followup on the oil leak issue and was informed that it was the valve cover gasket leaking on the rear cylinder.

Spyder is still under the B.E.S.T. coverage, however, the dealer must first wait for BRP to actually formally approve the repair under warranty before the first nut or bolt is removed, Then, after approval, the parts must be ordered and then the wait for them to arrive. Then, if something else is discovered amiss during the repair, more waiting for BRP approval and parts to arrive.

Then, they can start repairing.

I cringe at the fact that it may be a complex and time consuming affair to actually remove and properly replace all the parts without screwing something up - knowing how tight and cramped everything is under the tupperware. The few times that they have done any repair work in the past has resulted in missing or broken clips or screws not being installed completely.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of repair, and if so, am I worrying needlessly over nothing? And, I am sure the Spyder is sitting out in the parking lot uncovered in the elements while they wait for BRP. (normally lives in the garage).

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well, this isn't going to be fun.

I contacted the dealer today for a followup on the oil leak issue and was informed that it was the valve cover gasket leaking on the rear cylinder.

Spyder is still under the B.E.S.T. coverage, however, the dealer must first wait for BRP to actually formally approve the repair under warranty before the first nut or bolt is removed, Then, after approval, the parts must be ordered and then the wait for them to arrive. Then, if something else is discovered amiss during the repair, more waiting for BRP approval and parts to arrive.

Then, they can start repairing.

I cringe at the fact that it may be a complex and time consuming affair to actually remove and properly replace all the parts without screwing something up - knowing how tight and cramped everything is under the tupperware. The few times that they have done any repair work in the past has resulted in missing or broken clips or screws not being installed completely.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of repair, and if so, am I worrying needlessly over nothing? And, I am sure the Spyder is sitting out in the parking lot uncovered in the elements while they wait for BRP. (normally lives in the garage).

WHY do have it ???? if repairs may be a month or more down the road .... If I were you I'd DEMAND a loaner Spyder or allowing me to keep mine until they are ready to fix it ..... JMHO .... Good Luck .... Mike .... PS I haven't heard about " head gaskets " being an issue for the 1330 motor ....

[ARNIE R]

Right now, I have to wait until I hear something back from them.

I am planning to leave Virginia in a few weeks to go to Florida to deal with some medical issues with my parents and am not certain how long I may be. Normally, I would tow the bike down with me. They did initially indicate that if and when they do/did order any parts, it may be awhile (few weeks, a month?) before they get them in stock, so they would give the bike back to me until then, as it is still ok to ride. If they are able to let me know something more definitive on a timelime, I can take the bike with me and wait til I get back home to get it repaired.

Otherwise, If they are not able to determine anything definite, then I might just leave it with them and they can repair it when the parts come in while I am gone. If I did not already have travel plans, then I would request a loaner for use til then.

Or, maybe they will give me a loaner to take to Florida - haha - fat chance......

[Bfromla]

If & when inspect it well before dropping off, pictures, walk around video, note any blemishes before.
Being warranty: anything & everything involved should be back in place for PROPER operation if not sadly don’t pick back up until whatever is addressed, too many times they get away with unseen thing till 5 miles down the road. Do the 5 miles in parking lot, LET THEM SEE YOU inspecting it hopefully can while in the escorted shop area.(they may just “bring it around front” so inspect right front of main doors) Test all panels (not just where work may have been),lights, mirror wobbles ,follow safety card 2X & then some, a flashlight for some areas. & not just for show, just be seen.
Yes you want your bike back No you don’t want to bring it right back

[ARNIE R]

Still waiting to get the bike back.

In addition to the valve cover gasket issues (turns out both were leaking), I had also requested that they investigate all the oil drops that were always hanging off the bottom of the rubber boot covering the shift linkage every time I did an oil change. This leak was an entirely different issue from the valve cover leaks.

I had already sent BRP an email regarding the whole scenario for reference and had spoken directly to a BRP rep on the phone so as to have everything documented. I had also requested if they could contact the dealer directly since the info I was getting from the dealer was vague at times.

Hadn't heard anything from the dealer for a week, so I went by Friday afternoon to inquire about any progress and was told that the work had been completed and the service advisor stated that he was just finishing up the paperwork. I asked what exactly had been done and was informed that both valve cover gaskets had been replaced, however, the rubber shift boot had not been addressed at all, as they assumed that it was related to the valve cover gasket leaks. Also, they had not done any cleanup on the engine from where all the oil was, so by looking at it, one might assume that it was still leaking oil. I had the service advisor go out to inspect the work and he came back with oil all over his hand and agreed it was a mess. He allegedly spoke to the service manager and came back and advised me that the job was "messy" and not done properly, Furthermore, they were going to pull it back into the shop Saturday to determine why the shift boot was leaking oil, so no bike.

Got a call from BRP shortly after I left for home and discussed what I had just been thru and what the dealer was going to do. I insisted that BRP get in touch with them and see if they could get things straightened out in a timely manner.

Got another follow-up call from BRP today advising me that they had indeed contacted the service department and got everything documented on what was going on and how it was going to be handled. The bike will be worked on again Tuesday, as they are closed on Mondays. So depending on what they find that needs replacement and then waiting for those parts to arrive, I have another waiting session.

Getting more grey hairs (what little is left) on this whole thing.

[ARNIE R]

Another annoying follow-up.....

Got a call from the dealer service department stating they cleaned up the messy engine and wiped everything down and then took it on a test ride, etc. Claimed there was no sign of any new oil anywhere, especially from around the rubber shift boot cover area, so they were still insisting that it was all residue from the valve cover gasket failures.

I told them that the two leaks were unrelated to each other as there was a three year time period between both. Showed them a picture of the inside of the bottom cover panel when the bike was only one month old and had oil staining on it then, which I attributed to them doing the first maintenance service and not fully cleaning up thoroughly. Told them that I had removed the rubber boot twice myself in the past (plus, always having to wipe it clean during every oil change) and always found oil inside of it and asked if this was normal or not. I was told that they would go back and speak to the tech to find out and would call me back.

Two hours later, I got tired of waiting, so I made a copy from the service manual of the innards of the shift linkage parts including the hydraulically operated piston which is responsible for moving the shift rod assembly thru the various gears. I was particularly concerned about the skirted sealing rings at each end of the piston possibly having failed, therefore allowing oil to flow past and into the rubber boot area.

Interesting enough, apparently the service advisor and the tech had also thought about this possibility after the phone call,and when I arrived there, he had already brought the schematics up on his computer and had printed them out and was studying them. I showed him the parts I was concerned about and he agreed that they indeed were probably damaged and needed replacement. Of course, why this avenue was not thoroughly investigated when I first brought the bike in is still a mystery to me.

So, he started making a list of literally everything related to the piston and linkage assemblies and put them in for a parts order. Most of the parts are in a Georgia warehouse and can be over-nighted, however, a few of them are only located in Quebec and depending on how quickly they can clear customs will determine when they actually arrive here for the repair.

If I had known for certain that this would have dragged out for so long, I certainly would have requested a loaner, but as I am in the middle of trying to make a trip to Florida to deal with some family medical issues, I bypassed the idea - almost sorry I did.

So, more waiting..........

[Mikey]

[ARNIE R]

You can put away your popcorn now........

Finally got the bike back today after another delay during the week and more parts having to be ordered. I had contacted BRP again and received a call from them on Tuesday confirming their conversation with the dealership for a follow-up and was informed all parts had arrived and the repair should be done by Thursday.

Bike was put up on the rack on Wednesday to start and it was discovered that a few more parts were needed, so it was back to ordering more stuff and having it to wait for them to arrive.

Stuff came in Friday and all was completed late last evening.

Other than the usual oily hand and finger prints all over the place, the rain spots mixed with the pollen dust, a few tiny scratches on the very lower portion of one side panel, misaligned mirror covers, several disconnected wires and connectors for my after market LED lighting, 3/4 of a quart low on oil, and two missing plastic body clips, all else seemed fine. I'll give it a ride tomorrow to see if the oil leaks were taken care of.

Glad to finally get the thing home........

[Bfromla]

You can put away your popcorn now........

Finally got the bike back today after another delay during the week and more parts having to be ordered. I had contacted BRP again and received a call from them on Tuesday confirming their conversation with the dealership for a follow-up and was informed all parts had arrived and the repair should be done by Thursday.

Bike was put up on the rack on Wednesday to start and it was discovered that a few more parts were needed, so it was back to ordering more stuff and having it to wait for them to arrive.

Stuff came in Friday and all was completed late last evening.

Other than the usual oily hand and finger prints all over the place, the rain spots mixed with the pollen dust, a few tiny scratches on the very lower portion of one side panel, misaligned mirror covers, several disconnected wires and connectors for my after market LED lighting, 3/4 of a quart low on oil, and two missing plastic body clips, all else seemed fine. I'll give it a ride tomorrow to see if the oil leaks were taken care of.

Glad to finally get the thing home........

Would for sure document & send to BRP Cares as well try might excuse delays with parts but NOTHING for :” the usual oily hand and finger prints all over the place, the rain spots mixed with the pollen dust, a few tiny scratches on the very lower portion of one side panel, misaligned mirror covers, several disconnected wires and connectors for my after market LED lighting, 3/4 of a quart low on oil, and two missing plastic body clips.” fine blemish for the ratings that will most likely not receive a survey for.

[Mikey]

Glad you got her back on the road!!!

[pegasus1300]

they should have at least wiped it down

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You can put away your popcorn now........

Finally got the bike back today after another delay during the week and more parts having to be ordered. I had contacted BRP again and received a call from them on Tuesday confirming their conversation with the dealership for a follow-up and was informed all parts had arrived and the repair should be done by Thursday.

Bike was put up on the rack on Wednesday to start and it was discovered that a few more parts were needed, so it was back to ordering more stuff and having it to wait for them to arrive.

Stuff came in Friday and all was completed late last evening.

Other than the usual oily hand and finger prints all over the place, the rain spots mixed with the pollen dust, a few tiny scratches on the very lower portion of one side panel, misaligned mirror covers, several disconnected wires and connectors for my after market LED lighting, 3/4 of a quart low on oil, and two missing plastic body clips, all else seemed fine. I'll give it a ride tomorrow to see if the oil leaks were taken care of.

Glad to finally get the thing home........

)OMG ... I hope they at least fixed the leaks ...... Mike

[ARNIE R]

Just a small followup on what caused the oil leak from the rubber boot covering the hydraulic piston assembly attached to the gear shift rod/lever linkage. One of the skirted sealing rings was totally split in half, therefore allowing the oil to bypass the piston and flow to the inside of the rubber boot and then eventually leak out from around the edge.

Glad I pushed the issue on that one as they initially kept insisting that it was residual oil collecting from the leaking valve cover gaskets.

[ARNIE R]

After having my Spyder in the shop for almost a month during April-May for engine oils leaks, I thought that they had figured out the issues and corrected them (broken valve cover gaskets and shift piston boot leaks). Been keeping a close eye on everything (because I am Paranoid) and found a few oil spots here and there in June. I attributed them to possibly residual oil just finally dripping off and spotting at the bottom of the engine.

Put about 1500 miles on it since June and checked today and found wet oil spots on the inside of the bottom cover panel and oil drops hanging off then bottom of the engine right at the central frame member. Pulled panels off to see if I could locate the source, but couldn’t tell where it’s might be coming from.

Called the dealership right away and got the response of “ we are backed up thru October, so if you want to drop it off anytime, we may find a spare moment to look at it before then”.

Called another dealer 35 miles away and got a similar response.

You might think that since they dealt with this issue only 3 months ago and it was a BEST warranty repair, they might make some extra effort to accommodate me sooner - but I guess I am living in a fantasy world of unicorns and white picket fences……….

Just sounding off……….

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hey Arnie. So, you have some on the central frame, now. Does the inside of the bottom cover panel on the right side, underneath that bottom radiator hose, have oil laying on top of it or around that area. If so, check the leak indicator hole for wetness or any trail of oil staining. The hole is in between the oil seal and the water seal for the water pump shaft. It's there on purpose to indicate seal leakage. Whichever fluid comes out of it tells you which seal is leaking. Oil will run down the motor and congregate around that center frame piece. It's hard to find and you may need a telescoping mirror. Of course, a failed seal is something you want to fix before the warranty expires.

[ARNIE R]

I'll take a look, but the oil is collecting on the left side of the engine where the lower panel cover, brake lines and frame member meet. The oil drops are near where the oil filter housing and drain plug are located, but they are both clean.

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[Joel The Biker]

Are you running full synthetic oil? If so, try switching to semi- synthetic oil. I ran into the same problem on a motorcycle a few years ago. Unless the bike was built to handle full synthetic oil, the gaskets may seep oil. Conventional oil will swell some gasket material and keep it from leaking. For the non-believers, research it for yourself. I have personal experience with this problem and it was solved by switching back to semi-synthetic oil. It seems paper gaskets are most prone to this. I cant say it will fix this leak, but an oil change wont hurt.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

In the second picture, where you see the word OUT, is this the location? If so, then two things come to mind - there is an o-ring where the oil tube meets the engine block. If you think that could be it. It looks like that area right above the drip.

However, the most likely source of leakage in this area is from the o-ring in the oil filter cap. Are the screws tight enough? O-ring missing or damaged?

Otherwise, the second thought goes back a few years. The filter cap screws for the HCM oil filter and the engine oil filter, while they are the same thread and head size, are different lengths. The HCM screws are 5mm longer. If, during an oil change, one or both screws are swapped, those longer screws may bottom out in the engine filter cap holes and not adequately tighten down on the filter cap o-ring. So, they feel tight enough, but they aren't squeezing the o-ring tight enough. So then, oil seeps around the o-ring and migrates to wherever it wants to go. I've never actually tested that, but it was mentioned on here many moons ago. After that, I always practiced the policy of only removing one filter at a time. See what you think.

[ARtraveler]

Well, this isn't going to be fun.

I contacted the dealer today for a followup on the oil leak issue and was informed that it was the valve cover gasket leaking on the rear cylinder.

Spyder is still under the B.E.S.T. coverage, however, the dealer must first wait for BRP to actually formally approve the repair under warranty before the first nut or bolt is removed, Then, after approval, the parts must be ordered and then the wait for them to arrive. Then, if something else is discovered amiss during the repair, more waiting for BRP approval and parts to arrive.

Then, they can start repairing.

I cringe at the fact that it may be a complex and time consuming affair to actually remove and properly replace all the parts without screwing something up - knowing how tight and cramped everything is under the tupperware. The few times that they have done any repair work in the past has resulted in missing or broken clips or screws not being installed completely.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of repair, and if so, am I worrying needlessly over nothing? And, I am sure the Spyder is sitting out in the parking lot uncovered in the elements while they wait for BRP. (normally lives in the garage).

Been there, done that. After a "valve check" service, dealer "forgot" to replace the gasket. It leaked all over. I brought it back to them and they had to fix it on their dime. You have BEST warranty, that too, will be on their dime. The tear down for valve check is close to $1000. Be glad its not your pocket book.

[ARNIE R]

In the second picture, where you see the word OUT, is this the location? If so, then two things come to mind - there is an o-ring where the oil tube meets the engine block. If you think that could be it. It looks like that area right above the drip.

However, the most likely source of leakage in this area is from the o-ring in the oil filter cap. Are the screws tight enough? O-ring missing or damaged?

Otherwise, the second thought goes back a few years. The filter cap screws for the HCM oil filter and the engine oil filter, while they are the same thread and head size, are different lengths. The HCM screws are 5mm longer. If, during an oil change, one or both screws are swapped, those longer screws may bottom out in the engine filter cap holes and not adequately tighten down on the filter cap o-ring. So, they feel tight enough, but they aren't squeezing the o-ring tight enough. So then, oil seeps around the o-ring and migrates to wherever it wants to go. I've never actually tested that, but it was mentioned on here many moons ago. After that, I always practiced the policy of only removing one filter at a time. See what you think.

I always do the two filter covers separately. However, Both are tight and clean around their perimeters. I'm gonna have to look a little closer. Right now, aside from where it is collecting, I can't actually determine where the oil may be coming from other than the fact that the drops are there and eventually end up collecting along the lower left frame/cover panel area.

I know after the dealer did the valve cover gasket repairs, they did clean up most of the residual oil on the engine components and I went in afterwards and spot cleaned every nook and cranny I could get into, so everything was looking good. I had been frequently monitoring the area with a flashlite every week or so by looking into the cut-out where the shift linkage arm is and did not notice anything until the other day, so I am going with the concept that this is very recent.

Further investigation is in order.

[ARNIE R]

Well, I have a mess. The Spyder will definitely be going back to the dealer, much as I hate to do so.

Pulled both the left and right lower cover panels today. Double - checked everything for tightness again on the left side and found no new apparent issues.

The right side, however, was a mess. Found more oil drops and obvious oil all over the front, right side and lower portion of the engine. The appearance was similar to what one would see if spraying a liquid from a spray bottle, not dripping, but obviously wet. Inside of the right bottom cover panel was also wet and stained.

Also noticed small two drops on the right side of green coolant mixed with the oil drops.

I am a little puzzled over the oil all over the front of the engine - even the starter motor was wet. No sign of any leakage from the oil cooler, so I can't comprehend why that area would be oil covered.

So, I cleaned everything up best I could (took pictures beforehand for the dealer) and will get a few rides in this coming weekend before I drop it off next week.

Not looking forward to the dealer visit as they quoted me an October date as the earliest they had for an appointment. Otherwise, the other option would be to drop it off anytime and they might be able to look at it earlier if they had any free time before then - which means, it could sit in their lot for a week or more likely probably more.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, Arnie. I'd probably go to another dealer. That seal leak indicator hole I talked about is over on the right side. But, if you have a large mess, especially on TOP of the starter motor, looks like it's just running down from the front valve cover gasket....which they worked on....which is a pain and easy to screw up because of all of the intake stuff up there. Depends how much more you want to troubleshoot this on your own. You could clean everything up with Gunk degreaser, start it up and watch it for awhile looking for the leak location. But, that's up to you. This is taking up a lot of your time already. Good luck.