ECU flash - does a Stage 2 cost more than Stage 1?

[rjinaz86323]

Do they charge more for a Stage 2 vs. a Stage 1. Is there a reason to only do a Stage 1 if the price is the same or close to the same?

[troop]

Stage 2 is $123 more. If you you want max performance, go stage 2.
https://wick-itperformance.com/shop-...-can-am-spyder

[Jdr00ejr]

Stage 2 costs more - and you need to send in your airbox lid to have it modified. If you go stage 2 - you need more air flowing through - you get the best bang for the buck by using a K&N air filter and free flowing exhaust. You also will only want to run premium fuel if you do stage 2. Stage 1 definitely wake it up - but Stage 2 makes it AMAZING!

[blacklightning]

How does this stage 1 and stage 2 compare to installing the pedal commander and other devices that I have heard that really wake the bike up? I still have some warranty left on my bike, but will be doing something for a little more power really soon.

[Peter Aawen]

The Pedal Commander & other similar devices do NOTHING to the power output of your Spyder/Ryker's engine; they don't change the mapping, timing, air flow, exhaust or any of that - ALL they do is adjust the responsiveness of the throttle. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, cos it will mean less twist needed from your right wrist & a 'seemingly more responsive' machine, except all you're really doing is getting more throttle opening earlier in your twisting effort!

The Stage 1 and/or Stage 2 ECU Upgrades & associated mods ACTUALLY CHANGE the way the computer/s & those mods/upgrades/snarly exhausts etc make your engine run, so you will TRULY be getting more horsepower & torque out of the motor, and usually without even exceeding the 'proven reliable' outputs these engines have provided for many miles/hours in/on other platforms!

And you know what?? If you REALLY have a need for tire shredding, smoke producing, arms-outta-sockets pulling response from your Spyder/Ryker, you could always do both!

[Jdr00ejr]

How does this stage 1 and stage 2 compare to installing the pedal commander and other devices that I have heard that really wake the bike up? I still have some warranty left on my bike, but will be doing something for a little more power really soon.

The Stage 1 /2 Flash is remapping the ECU in a few ways. First it's changing the fuel air mixture. It's optimizing the engine performance for the fuel you run as well. And lastly - it modifies the throttle response.

The Pedal Commander ONLY modifies the throttle response. Think of it this way....

Twist the throttle:
->->->->->100% Throttle

Turn on Pedal Commander to say City Mode:
->->->100% Throttle

Pedal Commander Sport Mode:
->->100% Throttle

You aren't changing what 100% throttle does to the bike - you've given the bike no more power. What you are changing is how much you have to twist the throttle to get to the 100%. Basically - if you rotate your wrist from straight to 90 degrees to get 100% throttle - with pedal commander maybe you rotate your wrist from straight to 45 degrees to get 100% throttle - which means the last 45 degrees of twist does nothing - you are already at 100%.

People claim it wakes the bike up - because it just feels more twitchy, excited, etc. As you tweak the PC settings - you can just barely spin your wrist to reach 100% throttle instead of fully twisting your wrist. If you like this sort of thing - it's a lot of fun - if you are in stop and go traffic and you have it on Sport or Sport+ you will feel like the bike is super twitchy and annoying.

Now - take me - I did the Pedal Commander because it was cheaper - and I could plug and play it - I didn't have to send my ECU off. Once installed I was like - yeah, this is great. I love it. BUT....I had no more "power" - just faster access to it....and hooligan rider that I am - I finally caved and sent my ECU and breather cap in to get the stage 2 - WOWZERS! Absolutely AMAZING! Why did I wait so long? Now - you want to have some real fun - Stage 2 + PC set on City is my preference - push the PC up to Sport and she gets real twitchy! :-)

[308gunner]

The Pedal Commander & other similar devices do NOTHING to the power output of your Spyder/Ryker's engine; they don't change the mapping, timing, air flow, exhaust or any of that - ALL they do is adjust the responsiveness of the throttle. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, cos it will mean less twist needed from your right wrist & a 'seemingly more responsive' machine, except all you're really doing is getting more throttle opening earlier in your twisting effort!

The Stage 1 and/or Stage 2 ECU Upgrades & associated mods ACTUALLY CHANGE the way the computer/s & those mods/upgrades/snarly exhausts etc make your engine run, so you will TRULY be getting more horsepower & torque out of the motor, and usually without even exceeding the 'proven reliable' outputs these engines have provided for many miles/hours in/on other platforms!

And you know what?? If you REALLY have a need for tire shredding, smoke producing, arms-outta-sockets pulling response from your Spyder/Ryker, you could always do both!

I agree and concur...I have BOTH the Stage II and the Commander(set on sport +1). Also add the K & N filter plus free flow exhaust...with a shot of 101 octane racing fuel..its a wild ride!!!!

[nycgordonf]

Well, I'm joining the club. I shipped my ECU via overnight delivery for a Stage 2 reflash yesterday to Monster Fuel. Hope to have it back by Memorial Day. Last week I added Lamonster cat bypass pipe and Akrapovic. What serious weight savings. The Akrapovic is considerably larger than the OEM muffler, yet much lighter. I did use the bottle-can baffle in the Lamonster pipe. Without it, it was just a bit too loud (and I use earplugs).

Just ordered the K&N air filter too. Hope to have it all back together next week.

Oh yeah, and Vredestein QUATRAC 5 tires arrived today. Going to have those mounted & balanced this week in place of the gooey OEM tires from China.

[2dogs]

In days gone by we called it a 1/4 turn throttle. 1/4 turn to 100% WFO! A lot of people got hurt with that setup. They also hurt others who were too close to them.

[dbcrum]

Might be a silly question, but how does "nanny" respond to the stage 2?

On my stock RTL, she insists on keeping the smoke on the tire - just won't let me burn any of it off! Is it safe to assume that with the ECU remap, nanny is taught to relax a little? I'm not really looking for speed, just a little more power and quicker response. Besides, I think a few donuts would be the perfect end to the OEM Kendas.

Don't get me wrong. The majority of my riding is two-up and I do appreciate nanny looking out for me - most times. But occasionally, when I'm solo and the urge strikes, nanny slaps me on the wrist and says "not on my watch"!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Might be a silly question, but how does "nanny" respond to the stage 2?

On my stock RTL, she insists on keeping the smoke on the tire - just won't let me burn any of it off! Is it safe to assume that with the ECU remap, nanny is taught to relax a little? I'm not really looking for speed, just a little more power and quicker response. Besides, I think a few donuts would be the perfect end to the OEM Kendas.

Don't get me wrong. The majority of my riding is two-up and I do appreciate nanny looking out for me - most times. But occasionally, when I'm solo and the urge strikes, nanny slaps me on the wrist and says "not on my watch"!

The computer fondly referred to as the " NANNY " is the one that controls the " VSS " system. The Stage 1 & 2 ( from Monster ) controls the " ECU " which has to do with engine management ... as in HP & Torque ..... Mike

[dbcrum]

The computer fondly referred to as the " NANNY " is the one that controls the " VSS " system. The Stage 1 & 2 ( from Monster ) controls the " ECU " which has to do with engine management ... as in HP & Torque ..... Mike

Separate systems? So, stage 2 will give me the power I want, but nanny won't let me use it except in a straight line? No donuts?! Please tell me I'm wrong.

[Jdr00ejr]

Separate systems? So, stage 2 will give me the power I want, but nanny won't let me use it except in a straight line? No donuts?! Please tell me I'm wrong.

You aren't wrong. Stage 2 gives you more power - but it doesn't stop the nanny from kicking in. No crazy donuts. You just need to learn to co-exist with the Nanny. You can overcome it to an extent but on an RT that's probably at lot less than on my 2015 F3S.

[Peter Aawen]

Separate systems? So, stage 2 will give me the power I want, but nanny won't let me use it except in a straight line? No donuts?! Please tell me I'm wrong.

The VSS is actually a suite of systems, including ABS, EBD, Dynamic Power Steering, Traction Control etc, all fed by sensors including wheel speed & braking sensors, yaw sensors, etc and al, entirely separate from the ECU (Engine Control Unit) & the TCU (Transmission Control Unit) & probably a bunch of other acronyms, sensors, &/or computers tha tt I've forgotten.... so yeah, Separate Systems, but they AREN'T necessarily as restrictive as you might initially think! Even on an RT!

Unless you have an F3-S with 'Sport Mode' that tones down the Traction Control on the rear wheel juuust a little (but it NEVER gets to turn it off completely - well, not unless you feel like paying out some big bucks & really want to ryde a rabid pig! ) donuts are pretty much OUT on most un-modified Spyders, including those with ECU Upgrades of any sort! They're not quite so far OUT on a Ryker, especially the Rally versions, but our Spyders are more civilised than that! However, given some few miles and a little 'commited practice' teamed with some judicious 'pushing of the Nanny's limits', so that you learn how to ryde juuuust within those limits, you can learn to hang the tail a bit, maybe drift a little, possibly even give 'the Spyder Salute' (raise one front wheel) at will while retaining control... so much so that all up, you can get a Whole Lot of Enjoyment out of your Spyder (or Ryker) in a way that you never could in or on anything else!!

Once you learn how to ryde your Spyder/Ryker smoothly juuust within the Nanny's limits in the tighter twisties with shortish straights, especially on potentially 'iffy' roads where wet leaves & or gravel can make things precarious for speeding 2-wheelers, there's not much short of a Supercar that'll even keep up with a well ridden Spyder or Ryker; and there's waaaay fewer machines out there that can out-brake them once you've come to grips with their stability & extreme braking capabilities! The steerability & stability provided by Three Wheels, with Two of them up front, teamed with the Nanny and our Spyders Brembo brakes, can make for some astoundingly short braking distances once you learn how to really stomp on them & truly bring the ABS, EBD, Traction Control, DPS, & the whole VSS suite fully into play!

In fact, given some commited ryding by a practiced & competent ryder who isn't scared to hang their butt off the seat or scrape a knee every now & then, it's really only once the twisties open out into those wide, loooong sweepers of corners and/or the straights get long enough that the bloody big slab of air our machines hafta push ahead of them starts being a real drag that too many other machines will get to see anything much besides that big wide rear tire on the rear of a Spyder/Ryker disappearing into the distance ahead of them!! Those sorta Ryders are a joy to watch in action - and I like to dream that one day, I juuust might be able to keep them in sight a wee tad longer!

Learn to ryde it smoothly and well, then get an ECU Upgrade & make whatever other mods tickle your fancy &/or enhance your Spyder/Rykers agility & speed, and enjoy! There's really a reason that so many and such a broad spectrum of people appreciate the Miles of Smiles their Spyders/Rykers can bring..... and if you don't want to push the limits of speed &/or 3-wheeled adhesion thru the twisties, you can STILL enjoy the heck out of one!

Go On, DO IT! You Know you want to!

[Jdr00ejr]

Very poetically stated Peter. It's amazing fun to keep the Nanny on the edge of her seat. ;-)

[308gunner]

Well, I'm joining the club. I shipped my ECU via overnight delivery for a Stage 2 reflash yesterday to Monster Fuel. Hope to have it back by Memorial Day. Last week I added Lamonster cat bypass pipe and Akrapovic. What serious weight savings. The Akrapovic is considerably larger than the OEM muffler, yet much lighter. I did use the bottle-can baffle in the Lamonster pipe. Without it, it was just a bit too loud (and I use earplugs).

Just ordered the K&N air filter too. Hope to have it all back together next week.

Oh yeah, and Vredestein QUATRAC 5 tires arrived today. Going to have those mounted & balanced this week in place of the gooey OEM tires from China.

What year/model Spyder you ride???...when you get your ECU back ..please give a review.

[nycgordonf]

So thus far my performance mods are as follows:

Handling Improvements:
- Bajaron sway bar
- VREDESTEIN QUATRAC 5 SL - 165/60R-15

These significantly improve cornering and highway stability.

As for performance upgrades:
- K&N air filter
- Lamonster cat bypass pipe (I'm using mine without the included baffle)
- Akrapovic muffler
- Monster Fuel Injection - Stage 2 ECU remap

Lamonster pipe comes with a little baffle insert for those who want to keep things a bit more civil, but I have found that without it, the Stage 2 tune from Monster really shines, as the whole exhaust system is pretty much unrestricted. The noise is only obnoxious at WOT. During regular country road cruising in low gear, the exhaust has a very nice throaty feel to it.

I should note that I wear ear plugs all the time as a matter of habit. The exhaust tone is further subdued at highway cruising, as the speed of wind carries the sound backwards and is really not an issue at all.

With that being said, the Stage 2 ECU flash really lets the F3 shine. Throttle response is much more sensitive off the line. OEM programming had the throttle respond very gradually, taking off like a Toyota Camry. Gentle and smooth. Stage 2 makes it much more responsive off the bat. Certainly in-line with F3's sporty character. In the upper RPM range, the stock 115hp rating is increased to approximately 140hp with Stage 2, and you really feel it in 2nd and 3rd gears, where the thing simply rockets forward.

Monster Fuel tells me the engine actually runs cooler with Stage 2 and cat bypass because there is much less restriction on the exhaust flow, which makes sense. My coolant temperature has remained unaffected, even after riding in yesterday's 92 degree weather.

You do have to ship the ECU to Canada, which can take some time. I shipped mine overnight via UPS and had it back the same week, although that certainly adds cost to the whole upgrade. It is worth mentioning that Stage 2 ECU reflash requires you to ship the air filter lid as well to Monster Fuel, as they drill two large holes in it for additional air intake (makes sense).

Overall, initial impressions are very positive. I'll report back here should I come across any engine issues, but I am happy to have turned my sewing-machine-sounding F3 that rode like a Camry into something I actually look forward to riding every day.

Cheers.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So thus far my performance mods are as follows:

Handling Improvements:
- Bajaron sway bar
- VREDESTEIN QUATRAC 5 SL - 165/60R-15

These significantly improve cornering and highway stability.

As for performance upgrades:
- K&N air filter
- Lamonster cat bypass pipe (I'm using mine without the included baffle)
- Akrapovic muffler
- Monster Fuel Injection - Stage 2 ECU remap

Lamonster pipe comes with a little baffle insert for those who want to keep things a bit more civil, but I have found that without it, the Stage 2 tune from Monster really shines, as the whole exhaust system is pretty much unrestricted. The noise is only obnoxious at WOT. During regular country road cruising in low gear, the exhaust has a very nice throaty feel to it.

I should note that I wear ear plugs all the time as a matter of habit. The exhaust tone is further subdued at highway cruising, as the speed of wind carries the sound backwards and is really not an issue at all.

With that being said, the Stage 2 ECU flash really lets the F3 shine. Throttle response is much more sensitive off the line. OEM programming had the throttle respond very gradually, taking off like a Toyota Camry. Gentle and smooth. Stage 2 makes it much more responsive off the bat. Certainly in-line with F3's sporty character. In the upper RPM range, the stock 115hp rating is increased to approximately 140hp with Stage 2, and you really feel it in 2nd and 3rd gears, where the thing simply rockets forward.

Monster Fuel tells me the engine actually runs cooler with Stage 2 and cat bypass because there is much less restriction on the exhaust flow, which makes sense. My coolant temperature has remained unaffected, even after riding in yesterday's 92 degree weather.

You do have to ship the ECU to Canada, which can take some time. I shipped mine overnight via UPS and had it back the same week, although that certainly adds cost to the whole upgrade. It is worth mentioning that Stage 2 ECU reflash requires you to ship the air filter lid as well to Monster Fuel, as they drill two large holes in it for additional air intake (makes sense).

Overall, initial impressions are very positive. I'll report back here should I come across any engine issues, but I am happy to have turned my sewing-machine-sounding F3 that rode like a Camry into something I actually look forward to riding every day.

Cheers.

Thank you for this info ...... However the ECU Doesn't have to go to Canada .... Monster Fuel has teamed up with Wick-it Performance in Louisiana USA to provide the same services ..... Mike

[rjinaz86323]

minor correction. it is

https://wick-itperformance.com

[akaspyderman]

Can you flash the ECU without voiding your warranty?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Can you flash the ECU without voiding your warranty?

It won't totally VIOD your warranty ... the Moss - Magnusson Act would prohibit that .... However any parts re-lated to the engine could be Challenged by Can-Am and not covered under warranty ..... Mike

[308gunner]

So thus far my performance mods are as follows:

Handling Improvements:
- Bajaron sway bar
- VREDESTEIN QUATRAC 5 SL - 165/60R-15

These significantly improve cornering and highway stability.

As for performance upgrades:
- K&N air filter
- Lamonster cat bypass pipe (I'm using mine without the included baffle)
- Akrapovic muffler
- Monster Fuel Injection - Stage 2 ECU remap

Lamonster pipe comes with a little baffle insert for those who want to keep things a bit more civil, but I have found that without it, the Stage 2 tune from Monster really shines, as the whole exhaust system is pretty much unrestricted. The noise is only obnoxious at WOT. During regular country road cruising in low gear, the exhaust has a very nice throaty feel to it.

I should note that I wear ear plugs all the time as a matter of habit. The exhaust tone is further subdued at highway cruising, as the speed of wind carries the sound backwards and is really not an issue at all.

With that being said, the Stage 2 ECU flash really lets the F3 shine. Throttle response is much more sensitive off the line. OEM programming had the throttle respond very gradually, taking off like a Toyota Camry. Gentle and smooth. Stage 2 makes it much more responsive off the bat. Certainly in-line with F3's sporty character. In the upper RPM range, the stock 115hp rating is increased to approximately 140hp with Stage 2, and you really feel it in 2nd and 3rd gears, where the thing simply rockets forward.

Monster Fuel tells me the engine actually runs cooler with Stage 2 and cat bypass because there is much less restriction on the exhaust flow, which makes sense. My coolant temperature has remained unaffected, even after riding in yesterday's 92 degree weather.

You do have to ship the ECU to Canada, which can take some time. I shipped mine overnight via UPS and had it back the same week, although that certainly adds cost to the whole upgrade. It is worth mentioning that Stage 2 ECU reflash requires you to ship the air filter lid as well to Monster Fuel, as they drill two large holes in it for additional air intake (makes sense).

Overall, initial impressions are very positive. I'll report back here should I come across any engine issues, but I am happy to have turned my sewing-machine-sounding F3 that rode like a Camry into something I actually look forward to riding every day.

Cheers.

Excellent review...now it runs the way it's supposed to from the factory...now you see what you've been missing...btw..if you want even more throttle response off the line...add a pedal commander....it's fun...trust me

[BigRonnie]

Hello Everyone,

This is all new to me. I've been having my Spyder for 3 months now (2015 F3s) bought it with only 2k miles on it. Most of my friends have 2 wheels or a Ryker, but I felt the Spyder was the way to go. After reading about the ECU flash, I went ahead and overnighted my ECU and Air filter top to Wick-it performance yesterday. I cant wait to get it back .

Mods that I've done so far:
Cat delete from (Spyder 1 Attitude)
Voodoo exhaust
Pedal commander
K&N filter

Thank you guys for sharing.

[troop]

You'll like it. Welcome

[BigRonnie]

WOW WOW WOW.... I just got my ECU back from (Wick-It) maybe an hour ago. After putting everything back together, I took #9 (My bike) LOL on a test run.... and all I can say is WOW WOW WOW. Unbelievable power. Now, I just need to figure out what RPM's should I shift at LOL. If you like power/speed on demand, This is money well spent. 0-60 in a blink of an eye just WOW.