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  1. #1
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    Default First oil change

    Hi all
    I just picked up a used 2020 Ryker Rally with 300 miles on it. When should I do the first oil change?

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    What does the manual recommend? My thought would be between 600-800 miles. I've always preferred doing the first oil change
    a little early. But that's just me.
    Peggy and Howard

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    Do it now and see how much sluff is in the drain plug.

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salemons View Post
    Hi all
    I just picked up a used 2020 Ryker Rally with 300 miles on it. When should I do the first oil change?
    You may already do this to all your other oil changes ..... put the socket ( or torx ) on an extension .... put that onto the head of the plug .... tap it moderately hard a few times .... this should break the Varnish seal on the threads .... and I always set the ratchet to LOOSEN prior to using it ..... good luck ... Mike

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    Active Member tibadoe's Avatar
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    I glanced at the OM and Cam Am recommends oil & filter changes every year or 6k miles, whichever comes first. I like to do my first oil/filter a bit earlier than that, but at least at a minimum go by what the manual states.
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    The manual does say 6000 miles, to me thats a little too high. I also do the first oil change earlier (1500 to 2000 miles) because a new motor can contaminate the oil with metalic particulates and other materials from the manufacturing process. After that, I'll go about every 3500 to 4000 miles.
    2020 Can Am Ryker Rally Sport Touring Edition

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Last time I looked closely at engine manufacturing plants here in Oz (not that there's many left these days! ) one of the last steps on every one of those production lines was to fill them up with oil & connect to fuel & power etc, and actually run/test them..... Then once they'd passed their tests, they'd drain the oil, check everything out & then dispatch the engines off to wherever they were going to be installed... and I suspect ROTAX does this to most of the engines that leave their plant too - in fact, I believe doing that's mandated on many of their engines!!

    So AFAIK, there's really no NEED for YOU to worry about draining that 'initial oil fill' in your new Spyder/Ryker to make sure there's no manufacturing debris left in there like there once may have been, simply cos you don't get to see the 'initial oil fill' - that has already been done & drained/relpaced! Still, if you've paid for it, then it's your engine, and you can do/throw whatever at it you feel like.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 02-27-2021 at 07:06 PM.
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    Although the manual says 6000 miles, why take the chance? I recommend doing it at 1000 miles then every 5,000. As long as you DIY it is only a few more bucks and can only help keep the engine in good shape.

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    Active Member Zoot's Avatar
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    First oil change is crazy long in cars these days. The wife's Toyota had the first change (done by dealership) at 10,000 miles!! I almost couldn't bear it....

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    I'm old school and believe in early changes....one or more before settling on "regular" changes. It surely won't hurt, and may help to get the engine as clean as possible. Do what makes you feel good and your wallet will allow!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Last time I looked closely at engine manufacturing plants here in Oz (not that there's many left these days! ) one of the last steps on every one of those production lines was to fill them up with oil & connect to fuel & power etc, and actually run/test them..... Then once they'd passed their tests, they'd drain the oil, check everything out & then dispatch the engines off to wherever they were going to be installed... and I suspect ROTAX does this to most of the engines that leave their plant too - in fact, I believe doing that's mandated on many of their engines!!

    So AFAIK, there's really no NEED for YOU to worry about draining that 'initial oil fill' in your new Spyder/Ryker to make sure there's no manufacturing debris left in there like there once may have been, simply cos you don't get to see the 'initial oil fill' - that has already been done & drained/relpaced! Still, if you've paid for it, then it's your engine, and you can do/throw whatever at it you feel like.
    I agree. And this is the logical, unemotional best approach. But people have a hard time letting go of old adages and accepted past practices. As these things go, this one is not so bad. People feel better about their maintenance schedule. And other than wasting some perfectly good oil, it really can't hurt. I think a more important aspect, which most people overlook, is having your oil analyzed. This will tell you exactly what is going on with your internals. You no longer have to guess or Over-Service your vehicle to feel good about it. Over time, you can save a good portion of the oil test costs with appropriate oil service intervals.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 03-01-2021 at 12:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Last time I looked closely at engine manufacturing plants here in Oz (not that there's many left these days! ) one of the last steps on every one of those production lines was to fill them up with oil & connect to fuel & power etc, and actually run/test them..... Then once they'd passed their tests, they'd drain the oil, check everything out & then dispatch the engines off to wherever they were going to be installed... and I suspect ROTAX does this to most of the engines that leave their plant too - in fact, I believe doing that's mandated on many of their engines!!

    So AFAIK, there's really no NEED for YOU to worry about draining that 'initial oil fill' in your new Spyder/Ryker to make sure there's no manufacturing debris left in there like there once may have been, simply cos you don't get to see the 'initial oil fill' - that has already been done & drained/relpaced! Still, if you've paid for it, then it's your engine, and you can do/throw whatever at it you feel like.
    I'll stick to my earlier post about the first oil change, and recommend that others dont wait too long for theirs either. Fortnine's first oil change test video verifies this info with a surprising winner in the group.
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    He didn't test Rotax motors and the test wasn't real world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rakerrykerrider View Post
    He didn't test Rotax motors and the test wasn't real world.
    If you think it cant happen, then I would guess that you live in a world of marshmallows, snowflakes, butterflies and rainbows. A quick search of Google reveals there have been plenty of reports of forum members with Spyders here finding all sorts of metal particulate and pieces of metal on their magnetic oil plugs on their first oil change. Its normal to find a very small amount of metallic particulates, its not good if you find anything else like some others have. It takes more than a quick 2 minute engine run and oil drain for some of the wear to occur on new metal parts in a motor.

    It happens is all I'm saying, and a oil & filter change a little earlier than 6000 miles (which is crazy high IMO), number one wont break the bank, and number two may prevent problems down the road. They may have pristine conditions during the manufacturing process, but you are still dealing with humans, some of which are just there for a paycheck and nothing else, and we know the reliability of humans is 100% right? Links to other members first oil change on their Spyders:
    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...Oil-Drain-Plug
    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-Mile-SVC-Help!
    Post #16 on this one: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...full-synthetic
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    never seen an engine blow up from changing the oil too soon.j/s

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelfrmtx View Post
    never seen an engine blow up from changing the oil too soon.j/s
    Actually, in my Military career and then in the large Corporate Entities I've worked for since, in roles often monitoring just this sort of thing, I've seen quite a few 'mechanical & electro-mechanical devices' either fail to perform as designed or fail to perform at all prematurely due to 'excessive or early maintenance', including from tasks as simple as 'changing the oil too soon!'

    So don't be fooled into thinking it CAN'T HAPPEN!! It CAN, and IT DOES happen!! In my experience, not only does this happen far more often than you might think, but it also happens significantly more often than failures due to manufacturing contaminants in the oil, simply because even the most unscrupulous of manufacturers out there (& I'm not including either Rotax or BRP in that lot!) usually at least tries to get their machine products to last longer than whatever warranty they have to provide before failing for any reason!!

    Speaking from experience, there is often a very fine line between 'it can't hurt' to service any machine too early, and 'too much/too often causing issues' - only it's extremely difficult to identify where that line might be without a vast array of data from multiple machines and multiple maintenace regimes!! And that's something that most of us here probably don't have access to with regard to our Spyders & their Rotax Engines, but the design & manufacturing engineers probably do!! So you really hafta make a bit of a judgement call on this, but please, do be aware that you may well be increasing your engine's risk of failure to achieve it's planned outputs &/or service life by 'over-servicing' it &/or servicing it too soon - even if you're just changing the oil! Just Sayin'
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-17-2021 at 09:15 AM.
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    While I do agree with the "too much of a good thing" idea, I totally disagree with the idea that an early first oil change is going to
    grenade an engine, or even cause that engine to not perform to its utmost. You'll never convince me otherwise, unless you can
    produce several examples of an early first oil change directly leading to issues.

    I'm not referring to anything other than the first oil change.
    Peggy and Howard

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    Active Member Boilermaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salemons View Post
    Hi all
    I just picked up a used 2020 Ryker Rally with 300 miles on it. When should I do the first oil change?
    I always love how this forum has a habit of taking a simple question and turning it into a major discussion. Simple question, simple answer. Follow the guidelines given by BRP (make sure they are documented) and your warranty will cover it. After the warranty runs out, do whatever you want because you will be paying for the consequences either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
    I always love how this forum has a habit of taking a simple question and turning it into a major discussion. Simple question, simple answer. Follow the guidelines given by BRP (make sure they are documented) and your warranty will cover it. After the warranty runs out, do whatever you want because you will be paying for the consequences either way.
    What you say is mostly true, but many people have found that sticking strictly to manufacturer's guidelines and recommendations are not
    necessarily the best way to go. That's been my experience anyway, with cars, trucks, and bikes.
    Peggy and Howard

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  20. #20
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    And I'm not saying it'll happen every time either, Possible - I'm just saying:

    don't be fooled into thinking it CAN'T HAPPEN!! It CAN, and IT DOES happen!! In my experience, not only does this happen far more often than you might think, but it also happens significantly more often than failures due to manufacturing contaminants in the oil,
    - and I even gave you my opinion about why manufacturers & their designers & engineers with all the necessary data & info on hand might have designed this into their engines & their recommended service schedules.

    Heck, the majority of poster's in this thread might (or at least think!) they can or have gotten away with doing their 'first oil change' early; maybe only as few as 1 or 2 Spyder Owners out of all the Spyder Owners there ever have/will be will ever be able to clearly identify (or have identified for them ) that it was their early first oil change decision that meant their Spyder never performed/ran as well as it should or could (sheesh, I'd suggest that many wouldn't even have any idea if their Spyder is or isn't working to its full potential ); or that their Spyder engine failed to function in some way that was directly attributable to their early first oil change - because they don't, you don't, and I certainly don't have all the data & info, and wear/oil analysis results et al that would allow anyone to make that sorta call... but from my experience, back when it did involve having all that necessary info available for some very expensive pieces of kit, we found that it DOES happen waaayy more often than you might think (that is, all of those 'you's' out there who don't have & aren't ever likely to have or had access to all the necessary info - just like me, about Spyders & Rotax engines ) so I've passed on my bit of real world knowledge & experience on in the form of a word of caution.

    You can take that & do with it as you will - after all, it's your Spyder, and if you want to risk it or even if you think you're actually minimising some other risk, then it's your decision & whatever happens you'll probably live with it either way, won't you? Still, I hope that at the very least, I gave you & all the other readers some food for thought - but if I didn't, then I'll live with it too - I tried, didn't I?!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-17-2021 at 10:58 AM.
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    You do seem very convinced, and you're the only person I've ever come across that maintains an early initial oil change can damage an engine. And while
    I'm sure I'll never be truly convinced of the possibility, I am curious exactly what is it about an early initial oil change that can cause damage. Since you've
    had access to the data, you can share that information. I simply can't conceive of anything, short of human error, that could cause such a thing.

    This could be one of those things that we will simply have to agree to disagree on.
    Peggy and Howard

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    I'm not going to go digging into my history & writing yet another epic broadcasting it any further than I have done already simply to placate your need to hear the minutae of things that are now part of my personal historical record (if you REALLY want to know, you'll just hafta wait for & buy the book! ) but at the risk of dragging this out longer than it has been already, maybe you might consider the following Possible....

    ALL machinery that has moving parts relying on oil to protect wear between surfaces that also need to seal under pressure needs to 'bed in' those moving parts & the 'wear surfaces' to some degree or another - IC Engines are just like all the rest in that matter - they have components that need to 'bed in'; the piston rings, cylinder walls, etc as well as big-end bearings, et al are what I'm talking about. That 'bedding in' is enabled by letting the oil do it's thing in what has been at some stage of the engine's design & development, a carefully measured and monitored way. In the past, before oils became quite the 'quality products' they are today, manufacturers even specified better quality/specific grade 'running in' oils & a 'must be followed at risk of premature failure' running in process that allowed all this to occur; but these days, when there's not so much difference across the range of oils & the manufacturing itself is of a much higher quality & to a finer degree, that level of 'running in' is not quite so important, but it is STILL NECESSARY!! So the design engineers & the manufacturers go to a fair amount of trouble to work out the necessary oil specs & the initial change intervals plus the long term servicing schedule etc to allow this 'bedding in' process to be achieved in such a way as to enable their products to work at their designed specification and ideally, to at least last as long as the warranty period - messing with any of that stuff OR the carefully calculated timings during the initial 'bedding in' process (including that 'first oil change') risks that not occuring in the designed & planned manner!

    If you've ever had anything much to do with race engines, you'll know that each engine guru/design engineer will have a specific 'bedding in' process for their engines, usually covering things like the oils used, the engine revs used, the loads imposed et al, frequently timing the process right down to the second!! If they don't run the engines at the right revs/load etc with their chosen oils for the specified duration, then the big end bearings might not 'bed in' on the crank as well/for the right temperature ranges; the cam lobes might not 'bed in' properly to lift the valves the exact distance required at the intended poofteenth of a nano-second; and/or the piston rings might not 'bed in' on the cylinder walls as well as intended, meaning that cylinder could be compromised due to minute scoring, glazing, or because the seal made between the cylinder walls & the rings isn't quite what's expected, so the compression isn't quite what it should be..... . And there's also a bunch of other stuff that may be minutely but critically changed by not running the engine with that 'as sold' oil in it for a fairly specific length of time so that it goes thru its known & planned for 'shear down' process &/or follows its carefully measured 'lubrication/wear profile'..... . Sure, race engines are a little bit different than 'mass produced engines' intended for general use, and those race engine gurus are trying to eke the most power from those engines AND ensure they last for what's really fairly short periods of actual use, but the concept still applies in theory as well as in practice to your road car and your Spyder, or in fact, any ICE - if you don't run the intended oil for the intended period then any one of those & many other things might not end up achieving exactly what the designers & engineers expect it to, usually to your detriment in some way... even if you don't have the data or knowledge, skills etc to realise it!

    That is, to a large degree, why many engine manufacturs these days do their own initial 'bedding in' run & engine checks in-house - but they don't usually fully complete that process, simply because most don't have the time, the inclination, or the profit margins to cover the cost effective running of the engine for the equivalent of saaay, the thousand or so miles that it might actually take to fully complete the 'bedding in' process! Still, not to worry, they know that most buyers won't go changing out the oil on their new vehicle's engine themselves, and even if they do, there's a good chance that the new vehicle owner won't do it too much either side of the recommended/scheduled period, so the engineers are generally fairly confident that the 'normal driving' the new owner does before that carefully considered & timed 'first oil change' will take care of the rest, won't it?

    Many here will be able to attest from their own experience that the initial use they put their vehicle to often has an impact on the way that engine performs for the rest of their ownership - and a LOT of that is very much dependent upon the way they've driven the vehicle during (the rest of) it's 'bedding in' period - drive it like you intend to use it has become pretty much the modern catch-cry for 'running in', albeit usually with a few caveats regarding not over-revving it or not driving at set revs for extended periods.... And those who might instead 'baby' their new engine or those who thrash it to within an inch of its life within that 'bedding in' period often don't realise &/or if they do realise, understand why their engine doesn't do as well, last as well, or maybe perform as well as anyone elses! As I've experienced in my working life and said earlier here, there's also a risk that changing out your 'as sold' oil fill too much too soon (or too much too late!) might do just the same sort of thing, only most of us don't have the where-with-all to readily recognise this. But it CAN and DOES still happen to some; occasionally catastrophically, more likely completely un-noticed by the new owner, even if they can't detect it. Have you ever wondered why some people invariably get better (or worse) fuel economy to you; or why some who own an apparently identical machine get better (or worse) performance than yours? If you had the where-with-all, then from my experience & hard learned knowledge, I'd suggest that looking into the 'bedding in' process you used and when you did the 'as sold' oil fill change-out it might be very revealing. And I really doubt that I'm the only person to ever suggest that doing an early 'as sold' oil fill change-out might not be such a great idea, too!

    But remember, it's YOUR Spyder, you can choose to do with it as you will - I've said my piece, given my word of caution, you now get to do whatever you like to your machine!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-18-2021 at 02:09 AM.
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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Oil and tires!!!! Why is it that these two things can get every ones panties in such a bunch!!!! We all need a LONG ride, with our hair, for the ones that still have hair, blowing in the breeze!!! Let it go!! Oil is cheap, do what ever makes you feel good!! Have a good day!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salemons View Post
    Hi all
    I just picked up a used 2020 Ryker Rally with 300 miles on it. When should I do the first oil change?


    ~~~if your used Ryker Rally didn’t come with an owners manual, buy one, and read it, cover to cover. It will tell you everything you need to know about that vehicle. I bought a 2020 Ryker Rally new approximately one year ago. I bought it in Topeka Kansas at Cycle Zone Motorsports. Because I live in north central Fla. you may be wondering why I bought my Can Am Ryker Rally in Topeka Kansas. The answer is simple and honest. They treated me fairly, & Jake likes to be treated fairly. Far more fairly than my local kawahondazuki mega stealership treated me, but you were asking about when should you do the first oil change. Sorry, but I digress!

    I have 4 K miles on my Ryker Rally and have not done the first oil change yet. As I said, i bought it new a year ago The owners manual that was supplied to me when I bought mine said the first oil change needs to be done after achieving 6K miles *or*after one year has expired. Since I bought mine 52 weeks ago, I guess it’s time to do the first oil change

    In regards to the motor oil. I’ve kept an eye on the dip stick. It hasn’t burned a drop of oil in the past year. In fact, the oil is still translucent, to a fairly high degree. That said, I’m going to change it very soon. After all, the manual said I need to travel 6 K miles or own it for a year before doing the first oil change. I better get with it, don’t you agree=:-)

    Not that anyone asked but, early on in my initial ownership phase, I bought the kit that contains the motor oil filter, a large circumference oil canister filter gasket, and two gaskets for the sump drains (there are two oil sump drain plugs). One of those sump drain gaskets is aluminum & the other small gasket is copper. I’m looking at them right now. FWIW I purchased this kit from a forum member (Baja Ron). I also bought a K&N air filter from Ron and installed it in place of the OEM CVT belt filter, which incidentally is the same filter used for the engine air filter. The CVT belt draws a lot of air & I felt that by installing the K&N air filter in place of the paper OEM belt air filter, that was a logical move. Before I changed the OEM belt air filter, I would routinely smell burnt rubber, I presumed from the OEM CVT belt getting hot. I know this might sound like alchemy but I swear, when I swapped out that OEM paper air filter for the higher flowing K&N air filter, I didn’t smell burning rubber anymore. I’ve had a few CVT belt driven trannies on motorscooters I’ve owned/ridden since that first one in 1985 (250 cc Honda, not the Helix, but it used the same motor/CVT). I still own/ride the 2013 Vespa GTS300 I bought new in 2014 and that CVT, boy did the Piaggio engineers under engineer/spec the clutch hub in that CVT. It ate the clutch shoes/belt right quick. If it’s one thing all CVT trannies have in common, they need to breathe, & why I changed out the OEM paper CVT belt filter in my 2020 Can Am Ryker Rally early on

    In regards to the local Can Am dealer, their sales force personnel really are nice people but they demanded Jake pay a $1700 premium over and above MSRP. Jake has been buying new and used motorcycles since he bought his first new motorcycle, a 1976 650 Yamaha twin. Jake got that one for $40 under MSRP. In fact, Jake has never paid a dime above MSRP for any of the new motorcycles he bought in the last 45 years so, he wasn’t about to start paying above MSRP when he bought his 2020 Ryker Rally. Still, Jake could have picked up a Ryker at a price he was willing to pay a lot closer than going to Kansas yet Jake has a girlfriend he needed to see in Kansas so Kansas it was for a new Ryker Rally

    Seriously though, the guys at Cycle Zone have a very good reputation on this inter web board. They did a great job setting up my Ryker Rally. She tracks straight even at speeds well in excess of the National speed limit. Cycle Zone isn’t a mega dealership but they sell a lot of Can Am’s. I recommend them highly if anyone is looking to buy a new or used Can Am


    Best,


    Jake
    Reddick Fla.
    2020 Rally , Black

  25. #25
    Very Active Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    I first changed engine and trans after one month/1,000 miles.

    Fluids came out dark, trans drain plug was almost filled with sediment.

    Drain plugs almost clean, ~5,000 miles later.

    Photos in post 2 of this thread: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...nance-Schedule
    23 Moto Guzzi V7-850 SE 23 Yamaha XT250 18 Yamaha Bolt R-Spec 22 Triumph Street Twin 20 CanAM Ryker 900 14 Honda CB1100 18 Yamaha XT250 16 Moto Guzzi V7 II 17 Yamaha TW200 12 Triumph Bonneville 02 Sportster 1200 Sport 03 Sportster 883 76 Honda CB750F 75 Honda CB360 70 Yamaha CT1 72 Yamaha CT2 72 Yamaha AT2/CT2 70 Honda SL350 70 Honda CL350 67 Honda CL160 67 Honda CB160 62 Honda CA110
    2020 900 , NGK 4218 iridium CR8EIX Matte black

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