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  1. #1
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    Default Help! First Spyder for wife and I - STS or RTS

    Hi, I have done a lot of research and would love some help. My wife and I are looking at like a 2012 RT or a 2014/2015 STS Limited. I have read about the higher revving older engine. We are used to higher revving engines, we both ride his/hers Yamaha jet skis and Yamaha snowmobiles for years. I have a bad back. I ride my snowmobile though with no issues, riding upright and feet slightly back from 90 degrees. Pretty much the same riding position as the ST. Like to use my legs as shock absorbers. We would be riding 2 up for a couple of years and then get my wife maybe RS or Ryker. So the ST looks more sporty and maybe more peppy, etc. with lighter weight and might be better long term. Just worried how comfortable it would be for 2up until wife gets her own. We wouldn't be touring, just like hour drives and I would ride it to work, etc. We are both around 190 lbs. I just worry if we got an RT and then get my wife her own ride that I would wish I got the ST then. I found a couple ST's under 10,000 miles for 13k. I found couple of RT's with around 18k miles. If got an RT should I stay under 20k miles? Would it actually be wise to buy ST or RT with over 12k miles after the big scheduled expensive maintainance I read about? I would do oil change myself. I do love the red color of 2012 RT but seems too they are more expensive/higher miles then newer STS Limited's. Not a lot of choices right now, I assume will be more in spring and I read about checking here for sales and facebook, etc.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    You do need to do some test driving of the various models that you are considering. I see that this is your first post.

    I have had four 998's (two cylinder) and three 1330's (three cylinder). IMO...the 1330's, 2014 RT's and above, and 2014 F3's and above all contain that engine.

    The continuation of the 998 past 2014 was in the ST version only. They offered RT accessories on the 998 frame...for what reason...who knows.

    Nice 1330's can be had for that $12K market price. 40K miles will still bring you a nice 1330.

    998 is not as comfortable of a platform for two up riding. You mentioned an hour at a time, so that may be all right for you. There are also several threads comparing the 998 vs. 1330 for maintenance and comfort features. Some searching will help you with some of this information also.


    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
    2020 F3L , Magma Red

  3. #3
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    The V-twins don't really rev that high, the redline is only about 9000 rpm, but the semi-automatics need to be kept above or around 4000 rpm to
    keep the clutches engaged and save the clutch packs. Not a big deal if you're used to multi-cylinder Japanese engines.

    The ST isn't going to be any more "peppy" than any other style, the engines are the same throughout the lineup. The larger engine has more low
    end torque than the V-twin, and a bit more HP, but not much. The main difference is they don't make the V-twin any more so parts could get hard
    to find. If you're used to having your feet under you, like I am, the ST is the better bet, IMO. It feels a lot more comfortable to me. The F3 models
    are more like cruisers and have your feet out in front of you, not to my liking, but lots of people think they're comfortable. That's all up to you.

    If you're not going to tour, then why pay extra for touring gadgetry? That's my thought. That's why we bought the ST for Peggy. No touring, just
    riding around.
    Peggy and Howard

    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S SM5

    His: 1999 Honda VFR Interceptor

  4. #4
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    Thanks for your quick reply, I have read a lot of your posts. My wife says I am in full on research obsession mode. Ha Ha! I hear ya on test driving. Not sure if we will be able to that in our area. We have bought all of our toys over the years sight unseen and usually out of state and so far been lucky. I haven't been able to find many posts directly comparing 2up riding of ST and RT with the 998 engine. Thanks again

  5. #5
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peclark View Post
    Thanks for your quick reply, I have read a lot of your posts. My wife says I am in full on research obsession mode. Ha Ha! I hear ya on test driving. Not sure if we will be able to that in our area. We have bought all of our toys over the years sight unseen and usually out of state and so far been lucky. I haven't been able to find many posts directly comparing 2up riding of ST and RT with the 998 engine. Thanks again
    Yes. Iowa is currently in full winter mode. A couple months off for test driving.

    Clarifications: 998's need to be kept at 5500 rpms or slightly higher for primo operation. Yes, you may be only in first gear if going 25, 30 mph. I drove Hana Highway (Maui HI) both ways, 100 miles in first gear. Never used 5th gear until over 55 mph. Over 100K on assorted 998's.

    1330's are happy in that 3500-4000 rpm area. Quieter operation and plenty of low end torque.
    Last edited by ARtraveler; 02-16-2021 at 04:24 PM.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
    2020 F3L , Magma Red

  6. #6
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    The ST will be a bit more peppy as the weight difference is enough to make a difference. The 998, ridden as designed, has plenty of power. The 1330 is a better fit for the heavier Spyder. But the 998 is no slouch. 20k or even 30k on a Spyder, which has been maintained, is not a real concern. The engines last forever, and the clutches do as well if you don't abuse them. And by abuse, I don't mean hard riding. The 998 actually appreciates a bit of flogging. I mean lugging. The 998 does not do well at low RPM's below their design parameters.

    You bring up very good points and I think you're pretty close on your assessment. The RT will be more luxurious and comfortable. Especially for the passenger. It has all the amenities and is designed around 2-up riding. You know your wife. If she be OK with spartan provisions, then the STS might be the ticket. If not, even for just 1 hour drives. It might not be a good idea. If the misses isn't happy, the ride isn't going to go well. And buyers remorse will certainly set in.

    Ride as many Spyders as you can. It will do 2 things for you. #1 and most important, it will answer your questions for you. Probably in short order. #2, and almost as important. You'll get a feel for how a Spyder is supposed to feel and function. This will help you spot a lemon or a Spyder with issues.

    If you get the ST, I think you'll be looking at a Ryker in short order. But then again, I don't know your wife.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 02-16-2021 at 12:29 PM.
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  7. #7
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    From the "Do's and Do Nots" sticky on the forum:

    SE5 RTS 900 Series Clutch Engagement and Performance (Does not apply to the 1330 models.):
    The Spyder's SE5 clutch is considered fully engaged (stalled) when the rpm's are at 3200 (+/- 200). See the manual. Running at rpm's at or lower than this range for extended periods allows slippage of the clutch, resulting in premature wear on the clutch. (They are expensive to replace.)
    It is universal in opinion from experienced riders, the best performance is realized when keeping your Spyder's RPM's at 4300 or above no matter the gear you are in at any time (First-gear being the exception, of course). This does NOT mean to shift at 4300 rpm’s; but rather to shift at higher rpm’s so that the rpm’s drop no lower than 4300 when engaged in the next, higher gear. Shifting at 4300 rpm’s will drop the rpm’s close to the “clutch-locked” rpm of around 3500 and is far below the power-band of the engine. Not recommended.
    Peggy and Howard

    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S SM5

    His: 1999 Honda VFR Interceptor

  8. #8
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    Again, test ride as much as you can. Good luck.

  9. #9
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    Other things to consider: the Limited supposed to have the comforts (660GPS, heated grips, radio, SE5 tranny, manual adjustment windshield, Matching color detachable saddle bags, some chrome accents). Quite handy You will probably want to add a passenger backrest - the BRP sports rack /rest combination I believe only fits 13 & prior. Maybe looking at another seat or aftermarket like SmoothSpyder, suggest checking around for availability & $$. Sight unseen would be hard for me personally (each to their own). RT more suited to 2up suspension & would have the “queen throne” with its comforts & features, just a lil more popular Both great machines when well maintained You won’t necessarily go “wrong” with either; maybe some second thoughts or second bike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 02-16-2021 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Fixed the :popcorn ;-)

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  10. #10
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    IMO, you need to be certain your selection of Spyder needs to address your problem, your bad back, FIRST. I agree with ARtraveler about the advantages of the 1330ACE engine over the V-twin. Moreover, IMO, a 1330 SE6 RT with a drivers backrest should be a mandatory test ride. I don't have a bad back but, out of stubbornness went several years before I got a backrest, and I was absolutely amazed at how much better I feel after a long day in the seat with the backrest. CAVEAT, your wife must not feel encroached upon by the backrest or it will be miserable two up riding. Good luck in your search and selection.
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  11. #11
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARtraveler View Post
    You do need to do some test driving of the various models that you are considering. I see that this is your first post.

    I have had four 998's (two cylinder) and three 1330's (three cylinder). IMO...the 1330's, 2014 RT's and above, and 2014 F3's and above all contain that engine.

    The continuation of the 998 past 2014 was in the ST version only. They offered RT accessories on the 998 frame...for what reason...who knows.

    Nice 1330's can be had for that $12K market price. 40K miles will still bring you a nice 1330.

    998 is not as comfortable of a platform for two up riding. You mentioned an hour at a time, so that may be all right for you. There are also several threads comparing the 998 vs. 1330 for maintenance and comfort features. Some searching will help you with some of this information also.

    ..... So you realize that BRP no longer has Rotax produce the V-twin ( it ended in 2015 ) so it's 6 1/2 years out of production. I had two V-twin spyders and compared to the 1330, you couldn't give me a V-twin ..... good luck .... Mike

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    If the misses isn't happy, the ride isn't going to go well. And buyers remorse will certainly set in.
    Best advice yet. My wife finally feels comfortable on the RT and that means she will ride with me. Much more fun having her along on all the rides.

  13. #13
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    Thanks everyone for all the replies, just digesting things, got back from 110 mile snowmobile ride along Lake Superior. My wife is a diva but she is also a real trooper when needs to be. Ha Ha Pretty sure she will want a spyder of her own shortly so whatever we get eventually will just be for me. I can see some of the points both ways such as that the 998 no longer made. I guess I just didn't quite understand why get the RT if only solo. If one goes for the 1330 though, the RT is really the only choice for someone with back issues. Will definitely try to find ST and RT to test up in Twin Cities. Thanks!

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    Can someone explain what the difference is between the riding position is between ST and RT. I assume the RT is more a 90 degree leg position and the ST is very slight bent leg position? Thanks

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    To me, the RT is about like you described, with the ST being more traditional motorcycle position with your feet pretty much directly
    below your butt.

    On Edit: I just had to go down and check it out. The ST does put your feet farther forward, very much like a traditional standard
    motorcycle. Pretty much 90 degrees bend at the knees. Definitely NOT below your butt. Comfortable though.
    Peggy and Howard

    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S SM5

    His: 1999 Honda VFR Interceptor

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    Quote Originally Posted by peclark View Post
    Can someone explain what the difference is between the riding position is between ST and RT. I assume the RT is more a 90 degree leg position and the ST is very slight bent leg position? Thanks
    This helped me understand the differences. As you can see a ST-S with floorboards was the one I felt most comfortable on after riding many. Was the only one that didn't irritate my back however I believe a RT with floorboards would also have been good. I only rode a base RT with pegs. Pretty much the Goldilocks effect, the ST-S was just right and the sound of the V Twin is magic.

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ferrerid=32074

    Post 4 by Bob Denman.
    2014 ST-S SE5 Cognac
    2014 ST-S , Cognac

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    You mention an ST-S Limited. Some one may correct me, but I think those are two different models. There are ST, ST-S, and ST Limiteds. I have 65,000 miles on a 2014 ST Limited, one up, and love it. When I ride an RT, I feel too close to the handle bars.
    Good luck.
    Roger
    2014 ST-L

  18. #18
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    Floorboards make good difference for comfortable ryding highypegs still an option thankfully not as pressing to requirement , however sorry late thought with or without a back rest :dodging pot holes or bumps ;if centered the rear tire will kick like a mule try aiming it just under mirror /or foot either side. Takes some practice mainly not over correcting.

    2013 STL SE5 BLACK CURRANT
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  19. #19
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    Thanks everyone for your help. New to Spyder family now, bought one today!!! After researching and reading posts decided we would regret not getting 1330 engine. We bought a 2014 RT Limited in the silver platinum with 20k miles at a dealer. Going to do a 12 hour drive this weekend to Colorado to pick it up from Iowa. Thanks again!

  20. #20
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    I mean we live in Iowa. Bought it only from pictures so fingers crossed. Was a one owner and dealer serviced.

  21. #21
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peclark View Post
    I mean we live in Iowa. Bought it only from pictures so fingers crossed. Was a one owner and dealer serviced.
    I have the same year RT ..... for max comfort consider a driver backrest .... I have owned 3 Spyders and a bunch of GoldWings .... and I put " Utopia " backrests on all of them ..... most adjustable, thinnest, ( more room for the wife ) and with a small modification you can add an adjustable LUMBAR support .... PM me if that what you want to add ...... Mike

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    Congrats. Welcome to the Spyderverse. Safe travels.

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    Thanks Blueknight, ours does not have backrest so adding utopia is on my to do list this summer.

  24. #24
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peclark View Post
    Thanks Blueknight, ours does not have backrest so adding utopia is on my to do list this summer.
    Check their website .... I think the Utopia is approx. $150.00 + less expensive the OEM backrest which isn't as adjustable ...... good luck .... Mike

  25. #25
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    That 2014 is a great RTL. You are going to love it. 20K miles is also a bonus.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
    2020 F3L , Magma Red

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