2016 F3-S Conked Out - Any suggestions?

[dorourke7280]

Hey everybody, I could sure use someone's help solving this. My Spyder has around 8,000 issue-free miles. Started it up to go to work, and ran into the garage to grab something. While I was in there I heard the engine quit. Couldn't get it to restart. Acted like it was out of gas (it's not). All the fuses checked out. I checked the fuel filter and it has good flow coming through there, and the fuel pump is pumping. I was able to get it to start by spraying starting fluid in the air intake, so I'm getting a spark. Of course, it conked out again after the fluid burned off. I'm thinking it's got to be the injectors, and since all three are not working there must be a component that controls them. Is this correct? Any suggestions? My next step if i can't do it myself is to trailer it to the dealer. Trying to avoid that expense!
Thanks in advance, Dan O

[Peter Aawen]

Are there any codes showing, or unusual warning lights on the dash?!

It sounds odd in that it was idling OK then suddenly stopped.... if you couldn't get it to fire thru your later attempts, you'd almost think someone'd flicked the Kill-switch to OFF.... but your later attempts/starting show that it can't be that, cos you wouldn't be able to even crank it over?!?

Innnterrrresting, but definitely not funny!

[dorourke7280]

Nothing on the dash. Believe me, one of my first thoughts was the damn kill switch. I’ve even checked that more than once in a very OCD manner. I’ve had several people tell me “hey, let me know what the problem turns out to be”. It’s bizarre. I can’t shake the feeling that it’s something simple and stupid.

[Peter Aawen]

If you haven't already, you could try pulling each fuse & checking them both visually & with a multi-meter.... sometimes they can look good when they're in their slots, but not so good once you pull them.... and as our eyes age, most of us find it increasigly hard to see some of those little fine filaments that can have a hair thin break in them!!

Painful task, I know, but if YOU don't do it, I doubt anyone but the most conscientious of tech's would actually do that unless directed, and it could easily be just a blown fuse.... or maybe a failed relay??

For the relay's, you could try swapping one that you KNOW works for the one you're checking, altho often just holding a finger on a relay as you activate whatever should trigger it can be quite revealing - if you don't feel it click, then it probably isn't good! Hopefully, one of the more knowledgeable members here can actually identify which fuses & relays might be most likely to cause this sort of issue... or maybe give you some other areas to troubleshoot? Gas maybe??

Good Luck!

[RazzleH]

Your symptoms sound a bit like water in the petrol.

[2dogs]

Your symptoms sound a bit like water in the petrol.

Yep, I agree. Sounds like a fuel problem if it hits on starting fluid.

[ARtraveler]

Seafoam or similar in the tank if water is the problem. A quick and easy fix if that is it.

[Ex-Rocket]

I would not think its a relay or fuse problem cause the bike will start with starting fluid. It's a fuel problem. Are you sure the fuel pump is pumping fuel? I would disconnect the hose running from your gas tank to the fuel filter and then turn your key to the on position and see if gas is being pumped out the hose. You say you checked the fuel filter. How did you check it? I guess it could be bad gas in the tank. How long has the Spyder been sitting? If all the above check out then I guess I would add some Sea Foam to your existing gas in the tank and see what happens. Good luck with your troubleshooting.

[Mikey]

Dose that f3 have a fuel pressure regulator? Have you taken the hose off at the fuel filter and turn the key on to see if it's building pressure? When you step up to it to start it, just for kicks hold the throttle wide open for a try, to maybe clear it out in case you have flooded it! Give it a shot of seafoam or isopropyl before you unhook the fuel filter and try to unhook it from the out flow side of the filter from the pump to blow it out and get that seafoam up as far as the filter! Good luck bad fuel sucks and some times it takes a few try's to get it out of the system.

[Bfromla]

Ya leaning towards fuel issues, however during all this testing please be aware of how long & continuous you are running starter give it time to cool off or will burn out , unfortunately easily & COSTLY cooling times with no air movement are quite long. Doubtful a fan blowing on will have much effect or reach starter without having remove Tupperware

[dorourke7280]

I disconnected the fuel line before the fuel filter and turned the key on. Fuel shot out of the pump. Then I disconnected the fuel line after the fuel filter and again the fuel flowed freely. Water in the tank never occurred to me. I will definitely take a look at that.

[Rd_Runner]

Good luck. I agree sounds like water in the fuel.

[Peter Aawen]

I certainly wouldn't completely discount the possibility of there being water in the fuel, but I'd still consider an electrical issue as being a highly possible cause of this engine failing to run!

I say this because I have encountered pretty much exactly what you've described dorourke (albeit on other CR or EFI vehicles) being due to the failure of the fuse &/or relay that triggers the injectors firing.... everything else looks good & works fine; there's spark at the right time; there's fuel at an appropriate pressure reaching the injectors; there's clean air passing into the cylinders; you can even get the engine running for a short period by squirting fuel down the air intake - but if the injectors aren't being triggered to squirt fuel into the cylinders, you simply won't get the engine to run for very long!! Heck, sometimes this even happens intermittently, relays have been known to work oddly, breaking down maybe only at high revs, or when the vehicle is hot.... But if there's any fault in the circuit that triggers the injectors so that they don't squirt fuel into the cylinders, it doesn't matter what else is good or goes on, the engine eventually stops dead regardless of everything else looking good!

I don't know what fuses &/or relays trigger the injectors on the 1330's, but I reckon they are still worth a look/checking with a 'known working' replacement - if anyone can provide the necessary info, it'd take maybe 2 minutes to check & confirm/deny the problem, and if it IS that fuse or relay not triggering the injectors, it could save a very expensive trip to the dealers too! Or it could be water in the fuel instead.... Just sayin'

[Rattlebars]

Have you worked the kill switch several times? Might just be corroded and working it might clear it. It does crank though? My spyder will sometimes half crank the engine then not. That once used to set my iPod Nano to default to all songs in alphabetical order giving me an earworm of Abra Abra Kadabra

I have since changed my starting routine to BRAKE - START BUTTON - then MODE BUTTON. And, getting a 5th gen iPod Touch and it doesn't happen.

As an aside: I have had people flick my kill switch on me in parking lots.....

[dorourke7280]

Hello everybody. I wanted to give an update on my problem. It’s in the repair shop now. They replaced the spark plugs and the cam position sensor. My bill is up to $695 and it still won’t start.

[jvclarke]

$695 for them to incorrectly guess?I WOULDNT PAY THAT. I would call BRP.

[Possible]

Are they actually tracing problems, or just reduced to replacing parts til they find the bad one?

[2dogs]

Hello everybody. I wanted to give an update on my problem. It’s in the repair shop now. They replaced the spark plugs and the cam position sensor. My bill is up to $695 and it still won’t start.

Buddy, I feel for you. It appears you are being taken down an endless rabbit hole.

[bikerchris1270]

Hey everybody, I could sure use someone's help solving this. My Spyder has around 8,000 issue-free miles. Started it up to go to work, and ran into the garage to grab something. While I was in there I heard the engine quit. Couldn't get it to restart. Acted like it was out of gas (it's not). All the fuses checked out. I checked the fuel filter and it has good flow coming through there, and the fuel pump is pumping. I was able to get it to start by spraying starting fluid in the air intake, so I'm getting a spark. Of course, it conked out again after the fluid burned off. I'm thinking it's got to be the injectors, and since all three are not working there must be a component that controls them. Is this correct? Any suggestions? My next step if i can't do it myself is to trailer it to the dealer. Trying to avoid that expense!
Thanks in advance, Dan O

Please let us know the cause

[spyder01]

There is a big difference between fuel flow and fuel pressure,the first thing I would have done after seeing that it would run on fuel spray would be to actually check the fuel pressure and at same time take a sample and check to see if it burns well.If all that doesn’t find it then put an ocilloscope on the injectors and look at waveform,it seems unlikely but you may have a failed injector driver in the ECM.Your dealer sounds like they don’t know how to diagnose.

[Charon]

The original post said the machine was running, and then quit. That means the kill switch and spark plugs are okay. It will run when starting fluid is sprayed into it, which points to fuel. Water in the fuel is possible, but unlikely since presumably the machine was driven home from wherever it was last filled. My guess is something electronic, and I would imagine the dealership as a first step connected the diagnostics computer. If you are lucky there is a failed sensor, which the diagnostic should have found. For your sake I hope it's not one of the machine computers. At least it failed at home.

[dorourke7280]

I had agreed to the $695, so I’ll pay them for that. They claim there was a code for the cam position sensor, so that was replaced. They say that they’re having trouble diagnosing the problem without hearing it run (hello???). I think I’m just going to pick it up and see if BRP can help. I’ll keep you all posted.

[bikerchris1270]

I had agreed to the $695, so I’ll pay them for that. They claim there was a code for the cam position sensor, so that was replaced. They say that they’re having trouble diagnosing the problem without hearing it run (hello???). I think I’m just going to pick it up and see if BRP can help. I’ll keep you all posted.

Ouch! I feel your pain and aggravation.
If it is not to late....have the tech hook up BUDS.....have him show you that the injectors can be triggered by BUDS when commanded......checking ECM Injector driver.....eliminating the ECM as cause......very expensive parts swap which rarely fails

[old Timer]

I think it is something as basic as the electronic signal to the fuel injectors has been interrupted. It runs with squirted fuel and has fuel pressure and flow.....and runs with supplemental fuel. Sounds like the fuel injectors are not being electronically triggered.

[Charon]

Another possibility would be some sensor shutting it down, such as low oil or coolant level. A sensor reading incorrectly might show as good on the diagnostic computer, but still cause a shutdown. Lots of luck getting any help from BRP. They will almost certainly tell you to take it to an authorized dealer.