I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.
2017 F3 Limited , Gloss Black with red and carbon fiber accents
Well ... Now you did it As far as I know, BRP recommends 5w40 semi synthetic. Also, as far as I know, BRP is the only 5w40 semi syn oil that I know of. That makes it a monopoly of sorts on their end. You will NEVER go wrong, or do ANY harm, using a motorcycle specific 5w40 JASO MA/MA2 full synthetic oil in your Spyder. Especially at the recommended 9,000 oil change intervals. Quite a few m/c specific full synthetic 5w40's out there for less than the BRP oil. Not gonna get into the 10w40 debate. Heck, BRP loves it when you use their oils/filters/spark plugs/tires/etc. Just MUCH better options. YMMV ...
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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I may be late to this party, so all of my comments may have been said already.
It's all about the wet clutch plates, not the motor. The motorcycle specific oils don't have the friction modifiers that will cause the manual clutch to slip.
I think Harleys, as well as most cars, have a transmission that is separate from the motor. The Spyder transmission shares the same oil as the motor.
Absolutely about the clutch, but so does nearly every other motorcycle manufactured in the last 50 years. You can find automotive oils without
the friction modifiers, and many, many people run auto oil in their bikes. Motorcycle specific oils have basically become prevalent in the last 20 or
30 years. So auto oils have been in use for a lotta years with few ill effects. I just hate spending big money for little effect.
I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.
Not an issue, just show me where BRP has their refinery located. Somebody makes their oil to their specifications. You can find people who feel the same as you
when it comes to Harley oil, won't buy any oil that doesn't have the H-D label. Stay away from friction modifiers, and basically oil is oil.
On Edit:
It occurs to me that I didn't really answer the question why I "use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer". It actually
boils down to the fact I hate getting ripped off. They specify the additive package, rebrand it to their label, and stick a big ol' price
on it. Irks me no end, so I don't buy it. I also don't buy Honda oil for my Interceptor, or Yamaha oil for my FJ when I had it.
Modern day automobile oils are going to have a API service label on them. Motorcycle oils, and most HDEO big truck oils, won't have these labels. If you see a lower rocker showing "energy conserving" or "resource conserving", do not use it in your shared sump motorcycle. I don't think you'll find an oil with a 40w rating and up with this lower rocker. These oils would likely work just fine in a shared sump motorcycle engine, but I wouldn't go more than 3k miles with it. They're not designed for this use and will likely shear down pretty quick. Motorcycle specific oils have additives to help reduce shearing. Most modern day detergent oils have friction modifiers of some sort, but they're not created equally between auto/truck/motorcycle oils. YMMV ...
2022 RT Sea To Sky
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I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.
Here's why ( jmho of course ) we all can buy better oil for less cost .... same thing with tires ...... good luck .... Mike
I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.
Pretty simple really. BRP uses Castrol. You can get the same oil at Walmart for less than you'll pay BRP for their labeled container. With so many better lubricants available, many times for less money. Why wouldn't a person at least give these consideration?
I understand that people think the engineers run these companies. And, manufacturer's tend to promote this idea. But the truth is, they don't. It's marketing, sales, and bean counters who are farther up the food chain.
My question would be; why would someone be happy paying more for a lesser product? It might be nothing more than convenience. But many times, it is because they think they are getting something that they are not.
I carry Amsoil. A fully synthetic, motorcycle specific lubricant which is far superior to the BRP blended oil recommended. When customers get 2 service kits it runs in the neighborhood of $75.00 per service for the SM6/SE6 engine. This is very competitive with the BRP, XPS kits. With the XPS kit you get 5 quarts. With my kit you get 6 (per oil service). And there are a good number of other, superior alternatives, as mentioned in previous posts.
To each his own. If you use the XPS product, that's fine with me. It's your ride. You should do what you feel best. But when you analyze the data, it's hard to justify based on either cost, quality, or both. This is virtually, universally true with any manufacturer's branded lubricants. And many times will apply to most manufacturer's maintenance items as well. Because many times they are simply generic products with their logo and a higher price.
My brother used to run an auto repair shop. He said that he could get the same, identical, manufacturer's branded part as VW or Audi. If it came packaged as a VW part, it would be quite a bit less expensive than that same part packaged as an Audi part. The only difference between the parts was the brand, the packaging and the price.
He put a lot of VW branded parts on Audi's to save the customer money. But he had a few customers who said they didn't want that "VW junk" on their Audi. So, he got an Audi branded part and jacked up the price. The customer got taken to the cleaners. But they felt much better about it.
I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.
I am genuinely trying to answer to questions and text is never conducive to getting tone across so please forgive...
Why use other oil that what was specified by manufacturer? Ask yourself this... Why did the manufacturer recommended that oil? What are the differences between oil viscosities in that engine?
Higher 2nd number (40 in 10w40) the higher the viscosity. The difference between 5w40 and 15w40 is theoretically nothing after the engine reaches operating temperature.
What is the difference between 10w30 and 10w40 from the same manufacturer? Temperature of ideal operation. The smart person will run a thinner oil in colder temps (10w30 in Canada) and thicker in colder climates (10w40 in Florida) but the exact same engine. Both are treating their engine correctly.
Should you get a cheap old non-detergent oil to save money? No!
I think it make more difference how often the oil is changed than the viscosity. If you have ever put Lucas Oil stabilizer (the turn-able gears on the counter at the parts store from a few years ago) in your oil, your viscosity will go up. Essentially you are making a 10w30 into a 10w50 which quiets stuff down.
My overall recommendation for longevity of an engine? Change the oil as frequently as you can afford up to twice as often as the manufacturer recommends. Just use a wet-clutch oil from any decent brand and change more often IMO. I currently use Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 (can be bought from sam) in my own engines and get many many trouble free miles out of many different engines. Pretty much anything wet clutch will work as oil as a product is very competitive.
I am genuinely trying to answer to questions and text is never conducive to getting tone across so please forgive...
Why use other oil that what was specified by manufacturer? Ask yourself this... Why did the manufacturer recommended that oil? What are the differences between oil viscosities in that engine?
Higher 2nd number (40 in 10w40) the higher the viscosity. The difference between 5w40 and 15w40 is theoretically nothing after the engine reaches operating temperature.
What is the difference between 10w30 and 10w40 from the same manufacturer? Temperature of ideal operation. The smart person will run a thinner oil in colder temps (10w30 in Canada) and thicker in colder climates (10w40 in Florida) but the exact same engine. Both are treating their engine correctly.
Should you get a cheap old non-detergent oil to save money? No!
I think it make more difference how often the oil is changed than the viscosity. If you have ever put Lucas Oil stabilizer (the turn-able gears on the counter at the parts store from a few years ago) in your oil, your viscosity will go up. Essentially you are making a 10w30 into a 10w50 which quiets stuff down.
My overall recommendation for longevity of an engine? Change the oil as frequently as you can afford up to twice as often as the manufacturer recommends. Just use a wet-clutch oil from any decent brand and change more often IMO. I currently use Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 (can be bought from sam) in my own engines and get many many trouble free miles out of many different engines. Pretty much anything wet clutch will work as oil as a product is very competitive.
Thanks for reading!
I love these oil threads so many variables.Theoretically nothing after but before has to be some difference but I'll leave it to the experts to state my case................. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yydv2_pf6kM
...
Higher 2nd number (40 in 10w40) the higher the viscosity. The difference between 5w40 and 15w40 is theoretically nothing after the engine reaches operating temperature.
What is the difference between 10w30 and 10w40 from the same manufacturer? Temperature of ideal operation. The smart person will run a thinner oil in colder temps (10w30 in Canada) and thicker in colder climates (10w40 in Florida) but the exact same engine. Both are treating their engine correctly.
Oil operating temperature in liquid cooled engines is generally 210°. That is the temperature labs use to test oil properties. Once up to operating temperature, the ambient conditions don't matter. IF you live in the frozen north AND you drive short trips (not getting the oil up to temperature), you MAY benefit from a lighter oil. That is an individual decision and fortunately doesn't effect any one else's vehicle. You would mainly benefit from a 0w oil.
Head in the game, eyes down the road... 2020RT
Spyder Tryke Pylot
I love these oil threads so many variables.Theoretically nothing after but before has to be some difference but I'll leave it to the experts to state my case................. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yydv2_pf6kM
Wow! I'm sorry to say this. But this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. With his logic. Everyone should be using zero weight oil! There are several reasons why this guy is wrong. But you can only beat a dead horse for just so long.
You are definitely right about one thing though, (if I interpret your drift correctly). No matter how crazy a theory, someone out there will be espousing it!
This guy would be funny if people were not taking him seriously.
Wow! I'm sorry to say this. But this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. With his logic. Everyone should be using zero weight oil! There are several reasons why this guy is wrong. But you can only beat a dead horse for just so long.
You are definitely right about one thing though, (if I interpret your drift correctly). No matter how crazy a theory, someone out there will be espousing it!
This guy would be funny if people were not taking him seriously.
I love these oil threads so many variables.Theoretically nothing after but before has to be some difference but I'll leave it to the experts to state my case................. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yydv2_pf6kM
I may not fully understand what you mean but this guy is no expert IMO (I think this was your point lol). It is noticeably thinner in practice. Get a 15w40 and a 5w40 cold and rub them between your fingers.
It is EASY to see/feel this with your own eyes/fingers.
Originally Posted by ButterSmooth
Oil operating temperature in liquid cooled engines is generally 210°. That is the temperature labs use to test oil properties. Once up to operating temperature, the ambient conditions don't matter. IF you live in the frozen north AND you drive short trips (not getting the oil up to temperature), you MAY benefit from a lighter oil. That is an individual decision and fortunately doesn't effect any one else's vehicle. You would mainly benefit from a 0w oil.
Project Farm's oil tests hold more weight with me than what's on the bottle. Spot on with what you said. He describes it in this video. I agree with the part about no matter what it is a personal choice. For a customer... I ALWAYS recommend the manufacturer oil at the weight in the owner's manual.
Originally Posted by BajaRon
This guy would be funny if people were not taking him seriously.
Wow! I'm sorry to say this. But this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. With his logic. Everyone should be using zero weight oil! There are several reasons why this guy is wrong. But you can only beat a dead horse for just so long.
You are definitely right about one thing though, (if I interpret your drift correctly). No matter how crazy a theory, someone out there will be espousing it!
This guy would be funny if people were not taking him seriously.
If Mr normal is to be believed then 10w is overkill and 0w is the ducks guts.
10w40 is all Amsoil have in their motorcycle range for the Spyder anyway so no shaving the ET for us. Is it any wonder oil threads go on forever when everyone has an opinion.
At least one of the responses to this initial question responded that there has been big changes in engine oil in the past decades. I agree that indeed this seems to be the case. My owners manual, for my 2015 RT, specifies API service grade SL,SJ,SH or SG. The API web site informs that SH and SG are obsolete and SL, SJ, are for 2002 and older engines. All of this in the past 6 years.
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As far as I know, BRP recommends 5w40 semi synthetic. Also, as far as I know, BRP is the only 5w40 semi syn oil that I know of. That makes it a monopoly of sorts on their end. You will NEVER go wrong, or do ANY harm, using a motorcycle specific 5w40 JASO MA/MA2 full synthetic oil in your Spyder. Especially at the recommended 9,000 oil change intervals. Quite a few m/c specific full synthetic 5w40's out there for less than the BRP oil. Not gonna get into the 10w40 debate. Heck, BRP loves it when you use their oils/filters/spark plugs/tires/etc. Just MUCH better options. YMMV ...
Originally Posted by ThreeWheels
