Synthetic oil

[Possible]

Base viscosity is 5W? I'm not an expert, but I don't think so. I'm not sure what you mean by base viscosity, as
I'm pretty sure the "out of the bottle" viscosity will be much more than 5W. But I've been wrong before.

And perhaps we are thinking of different things. That's happened before.

[RICZ]

Base viscosity is 5W? I'm not an expert, but I don't think so. I'm not sure what you mean by base viscosity, as I'm pretty sure the "out of the bottle" viscosity will be much more than 5W. But I've been wrong before.

I was referring to what's on the label - 5W-40 it sez.

[Possible]

I see. The 5W means the oil will perform like a 5 weight oil at low temperatures, i.e. flow better than an oil with a higher number
before the W. But will perform like a 40 weight oil at normal operating temperatures, offering "better" protection that an oil with a
lower number after the W.

Consider that 3-In-One oil is considered to be a 20 weight oil, so a 5 weight oil would be really, really "thin".

[RICZ]

Consider that 3-In-One oil is considered to be a 20 weight oil, so a 5 weight oil would be really, really "thin".

Not thin for long. As soon as it begins to warm, it gets more thick.

[sandylolee]

Thanks for the info. I changed mine with the reg change kit at 3500. When I change next time I thing I’ll use mobile 1.

[RICZ]

When I change next time I thing I’ll use mobile 1.

Which Mobil 1? Car or Motorcycle?

[Navydad]

You betcha, I just picked up a gallon of T6 a couple weeks ago for Peggy's Spyder and it was $22. Quite a few people run this oil
in their bikes, not just Spyders.

Rebate going on until the end of October. I have $34 in the two and a half gallon jug after rebate.

[Possible]

Oh my, that is a good deal. I need to check out that rebate. Maybe get some more for the next oil change.

Thank you for the heads up.

[sandylolee]

They do have a motorcycle oil I have used it in my vtx. It cost more then the car grade and I couldn’t tell any difference.

[sandylolee]

RICZ that is the question I was asking. I have used the car 10w40 non energy conserving in my vtx over 30,000 miles with no problems. So can I use the same in the spyder?

[sandylolee]

Look at your API Service symbol on your bottle. This example is from a 5w20 oil. If the lower bar shows energy conserving, do not use in your wet clutch m/c. I doubt your M1 10w40 oil has energy conserving on it. ALL oils have friction modifiers of some sort. Not all are bad. M/C specific oils tend to have higher levels of zinc and phosphorous. They're also formulated to shear less quickly due to being used in motor/clutch/tranny. Will the M1 10w40 work in your Spyder? Sure. Will it be the best oil to use? No

What would be your choice for oil?

[ButterSmooth]

What would be your choice for oil?

I use Rotella T6, Ma2 rated for wet clutches, full synthetic. ~$20 a gallon at Walmart. I use it in everthing...
I also send my change samples to Blackstone Labs and have never seen a reason to use anything else. And I thought I'd NEVER respond to an oil thread... SMN

On a further note, if you want to know about things like 'base number', go to 'Bob is the oil guy' and learn about oil. Conventional (dinosaur) oils and synthetic oils are different in this (base number) respect. Multigrade dino oils have a base number reflected in the first (low) number and use polymeric chains to thicken the oil as it heats up. Synthetic oils use the higher (second) number as the base and perform at lower temperatures as the lower (first) indicates, as formulated when they are created. The polymeric chains are subject to shear and the oil gets thinner (break down) with use. Synthetic also loses viscosity with use, but not as severely as dino oil. If you choose to use dino oil (or a blend) change it more frequently than synthetic and avoid the cold.

[RICZ]

SANDYLOLEE....It was said before, it's your bike and your choice to make for what oil you put in your Spyder. The differences between car oil and oil that is rated for MCs is significant - the additive packages differ. The reason I began using Rotella T6 is it is not only JASO MA2 rated, it is blended for use in Diesel engines with a compression ratio of 22:1, putting extreme demands on an oil. My theory is, if it stands up to Diesels, it will stand taller in an engine with half the compression ratio. I can not state this any better.
Good luck with whatever you use.

[sandylolee]

Thanks to all for the info.

[troop]

What would be your choice for oil?

I'm currently using M1 10w40 4T motorcycle oil. Can't go wrong with Amsoil 10w40 m/c oil either. If you opt for Shell Rotella T6, I'd go for the 15w40 version over the 5w40 version. The 5w40 is notorious for shearing down in grade. Not the best choice IMHO. Since BRP recommends 5w40, I'd stick with 10w40 full synthetic.
This is a great price on (6) quarts of 10w50 oil. I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Power...NrPXRydWU&th=1
Want to stick to OEM recommended 5w40 ? Here ...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza

[ghostrdr]

I have a 1998 Honda Valkyrie, other than what ever came in it from the factory, it has had nothing but Mobile 1 15/50 in it. It has 102,00 + miles on it with no problems. It is the Moly and "Energy Conserving" additives that cause clutch issues. There is a member on the online owners group that has 660,000 + miles on one with no clutch issues. I recently purchase a 2012 RTs Sm5 that will be getting Mobile 1 at the next oil change.

[troop]

I have a 1998 Honda Valkyrie, other than what ever came in it from the factory, it has had nothing but Mobile 1 15/50 in it. It has 102,00 + miles on it with no problems. It is the Moly and "Energy Conserving" additives that cause clutch issues. There is a member on the online owners group that has 660,000 + miles on one with no clutch issues. I recently purchase a 2012 RTs Sm5 that will be getting Mobile 1 at the next oil change.

I also use this version of M1 oil. I didn't mention it as I stuck to specific M/C rated oils.

[BajaRon]

I'm currently using M1 10w40 4T motorcycle oil. Can't go wrong with Amsoil 10w40 m/c oil either. If you opt for Shell Rotella T6, I'd go for the 15w40 version over the 5w40 version. The 5w40 is notorious for shearing down in grade. Not the best choice IMHO. Since BRP recommends 5w40, I'd stick with 10w40 full synthetic.
This is a great price on (6) quarts of 10w50 oil. I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Power...NrPXRydWU&th=1
Want to stick to OEM recommended 5w40 ? Here ...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza

The larger the spread between the low an high numbers. The more susceptible the lubricant is to degradation and sheering. Optimally, you want an adequate low number for the condition (cold start up temperature) but not lower than needed. 10w is good down to zero for cold start-ups. Most Spyders never see a cold start-up below zero. So a 10w/40 or even a 15w/40 is actually a better option than a 5w/40 for the Spyder. For a snowmobile, which can sit outside in much colder weather, not so much. But the Spyder is not a snowmobile (at least without doing some significant modifications).

Different oils of the same viscosity will flow at different rates on start-up so these numbers are not universal. But the rule of thumb is 5w down to -30 F, 10w down to 0 F and 15w down to 15 degrees F. A true synthetic oil will flow better cold than a mineral oil with an additive package (labeled 'Synthetic) with the same cold start viscosity rating. And a mineral oil 'Synthetic' will flow better than a blended oil with the same viscosity rating at cold start-up.

We are talking cold start-up only here. The outside ambient temperature has no affect on the engine oil once it reaches operating temperature. You can ride (if you are crazy enough to do so) in sub-zero temps with a 10w, 15w or 20w low number oil without issue. Because once the oil starts to warm, you begin to move towards the high number in the viscosity spread. The oil only cares what the outside temperature is at cold start because it has assumed that same temperature. Yes, you want a lubricant that flows fast enough to protect engine parts and function hydraulic components. But you also want an oil thick enough to protect them at the same time. Don't forget, a good oil will retain a protective film on components between operations. Giving you protection during the start-up phase until pressurized oil arrives. Which happens very quickly. At start-up, there is little to no load on components, and a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

[troop]

The larger the spread between the low an high numbers. The more susceptible the lubricant is to degradation and sheering. Optimally, you want an adequate low number for the condition (cold start up temperature). 10w is good down to zero for cold start-ups. Most Spyders never see a cold start-up below zero. So a 10w/40 is actually a better option than a 5w/40. Different oils of the same viscosity will flow at different rates so this is not universal. But the rule of thumb is 5w down to -30 F, 10w down to 0 F and 15w down to 15 degrees F. A true synthetic oil will flow better cold than a mineral oil with an additive package (labeled 'Synthetic) with the same cold start viscosity rating. And a mineral oil 'Synthetic' will flow better than a blended oil with the same viscosity rating at cold start-up.

We are talking cold start-up only here. The outside ambient temperature has no affect on the engine oil once it reaches operating temperature. You can ride (if you are crazy enough to do so) in sub-zero temps with a 10w, 15w or 20w low number oil without issue. Because once the oil starts to warm, you begin to move towards the high number in the viscosity spread. The oil only cares what the outside temperature is at cold start because it has assumed that same temperature. Yes, you want a lubricant that flows fast enough to protect engine parts and function hydraulic components. But you also want an oil thick enough to protect them at the same time. Don't forget, a good oil will retain a protective film on components between operations. Giving you protection during the start-up phase until pressurized oil arrives. Which happens very quickly. At start-up, there is little to no load on components, and a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

Not disagreeing. As stated above, I use 10w40 oil. That said, some owners don't want to stray from what the MFR recommends. That's why I showed the link to the 5w40. After I deplete my current inventory of 10w40/20w50, I might pull the trigger on a six pack of the 10w50

[BajaRon]

Not disagreeing. As stated above, I use 10w40 oil. That said, some owners don't want to stray from what the MFR recommends. That's why I showed the link to the 5w40. After I deplete my current inventory of 10w40/20w50, I might pull the trigger on a six pack of the 10w50

True, many do tend to go with what the manufacturer recommends. And I am not here to say they are wrong. I do think that if people realized manufacturers tend to sell what they have as opposed to the best possible fit. And if they educate themselves about how lubricants function, there would be less adherence to the OEM.

For example. There are still some who think BRP, Honda, Ford, etc., make their own lubricants. Not true. The only thing BRP about BRP oil is the bottle that you throw away. BRP has been using Castrol products since the beginning. Nor am I here to bad mouth Castrol products. My only intent is to put out accurate information so that those interested in making a more informed decision are able to do so.

[ButterSmooth]

... a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

In ancient times, when you poured pure 60 weight oil into your engine (think Harley), it was almost a solid when cold. Too many revs on startup would snap the oil pump shaft. Castrol GTX 5w-20 for example, has a cold crank viscosity of 4601 at ~0° (PQIA numbers).

[BajaRon]

60 weight oil is Road Tar!

[wingit3611]

I believe I have seen 60 weight for sale in the late 70's in New Mexico for use in Harley's. Hard to believe.

[Possible]

Not such a big deal for Harley's. They ran roller bearing cranks so all they needed was oil flow, pressure was relatively unimportant
Much different animal from the plain bearing cranks that require high pressure/flow. Put an oil pressure gauge on an old Harley and
you'd be lucky to see much measurable pressure at all.

[Navydad]

My Guzzi calls for 10w60 synthetic. I use 15w50 synthetic, much easier to find and dealer recommends Mobile 1. Doesn't need to be motorcycle specific because the Guzzi has a dry clutch. Valves checked/adjusted, oil and filter changed at 5000 miles. Takes all of 30 minutes for all start to finish. Simplicity at its finest. Nothing simple about my RT, but I still enjoy doing my own maintenance.