Can-Am's position on tires

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mate of mine just did a 16,000km (10,000 mile) trip in Australia. Ran out of rear tyre in Alice Springs. Tiger 1200. Only tyre available was a Dunlop tyre branded HARLEY DAVIDSON. We gave him a lot of grieve over that.

Car tyres for me

I have reported here a few times that H.D. Trikes all come with DUNLOP ... AUTO tires ..... but I didn't know they also had Harley Davidson written on the tire ..... Thanks for this .... Mike

[lvmyspyder]

Hello all. After the three R's, reading, researching and riding for a few months. I could not get my Kenda's to balance. Spin balance and beads, still got the shimmy from the OEM Kenda's no matter what I tried. It was maddening. It was ALWAYS there, just sometimes worse then others, especially at the 60-64mph. It was beyond annoying. After the Baja Ron bar add and the Fox Racing shocks, which really should not have impacted that constant shimmy IMHO, at times if the road was spectacularly smooth (Here in Washington, that is about 500 feet of road per 20K miles of roadway...yeah, they suck!!!) my Spyder would smooth out just enough to make me think that getting this machine dialed in was possible. Its rough pulling off tires that only have 2K miles on them and look brand new, but 10 inches of stick on weights made me say, is that the rim or the tire that is really that bad. Conclusion. Kenda OEM tires. Enough was enough. Bought Federal Formoza AZ01's. Les Schwab took off those Kenda's and put on the new Formoza tires. $29.00 per side. No beads. 20 pounds to start. Took them on a joy ride today. Put about 100 miles on them. First part was easy, but then through some twisty's, some hard braking and really tried to test the tires out. Observations. Ride was not harsh at 20 pounds. 0-84mph...smooth as silk. Through the twisty's, felt secure and not a slip. Overall responsiveness was no comparison. They are MUCH more responsive than the Kenda's. They are also non-directional, so just need the outside to the outside. I hit some rain that I did not expect and honestly I try to avoid rain. I will ride in the cold all day. No sweat. Rain just is not my buddy on a bike and never heard anyone say, man, I love riding in the rain. What I can say is I slowed down, but no hydroplaning what-so-ever at 65mph on a pretty wet freeway and when I did get into some corners on the wet. No problem. Bottom line for me is no shimmy and car tire or not, this was one of the best things I did for the Spyder and for me. With these on I truly believe I have this machine dialed in to the way it CAN and SHOULD have run from the dealer floor. For me with the purchase of the tires and mounting was about $160.00 was definitely one of best things I could have done for my Spyder. The cycle shop, kept saying Kenda made for this machine and they were the best option, never heard of an issue with them (other than getting a non-round tire to balance properly) and all the sales jargon, which of course he has to say. If I may be so bold. Forget the word "car" on these tires and just evaluate them on their performance. Two more comments. I kept the Kenda's "just in case" the Formosa's did not perform like they should and again I rode them hard today. First thing when I got him, the Kenda's went into the recycle bin. Other observation is, the 10 inch weigh strip went down to 3 weights on the same rim. I have 2 weights on the other rim. That tells me something. Not the rim, it was the tire. Lastly, again the response and the ride...almost perfect. If you make the change I strongly suspect, you will be very happy you did.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

As I'm sure you've read some owners have good luck with the OEM Kendas and others, like you, find them to be crap. [Is that what's meant by a crap shoot? ] The OEM tires on the 2013 RT I had rode decently and still had a bit of tread left when I sold it at 25,000 miles. But not so with the ones on my 2014 RTS. I finally took them off at 13,000 miles because after about 12,000 miles I was tired of the constant slight pull to the right.

[Peteoz]

I will only use car tires on my Spyder. I want value for my money. Bruce

I’m in the other camp, Bruce. I couldn’t care less about “value for my money” . Give me a tyre that grips well in all conditions, feels solid under me and that can be easily balanced, and I am happy to pay their asking price. Safety is far more important to me than simply saving a few bucks. If longevity over the Kenda is part of that tyre’s build then I am even more happy.

Pete

[Snoking1127]

I’m in the other camp, Bruce. I couldn’t care less about “value for my money” . Give me a tyre that grips well in all conditions, feels solid under me and that can be easily balanced, and I am happy to pay their asking price. Safety is far more important to me than simply saving a few bucks. If longevity over the Kenda is part of that tyre’s build then I am even more happy.

Pete

And your choice is?

[Peter Aawen]

And your choice is?

We get a whole different set of tires over here in Oz, Sno... some of what you can get just aren't available here; some of what we can get aren't available over there; and even when they ARE available, there can be differences in the specs, often to the extent that there are significantly different compounds in what otherwise might seem to be exactly the 'same' tire!!

So while Pete's choice might be useful to you as a 'size' guide, or maybe a 'brand' or 'type' guide, I reckon you'd still be be well advised to check out what others in your neck of the woods are running.

[Snoking1127]

We get a whole different set of tires over here in Oz, Sno... some of what you can get just aren't available here; some of what we can get aren't available over there; and even when they ARE available, there can be differences in the specs, often to the extent that there are significantly different compounds in what otherwise might seem to be exactly the 'same' tire!!

So while Pete's choice might be useful to you as a 'size' guide, or maybe a 'brand' or 'type' guide, I reckon you'd still be be well advised to check out what others in your neck of the woods are running.

Got it, thanks!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Got it, thanks!

with Peter.... currently the Best tire today is still the Vredestein Q-5 ( fronts 165/60-15 - rear 205/60 or 65 -15 ) ..... others are OK but stay away from the Kumho, quite a few folks here have re-ported they loose WET traction at about 12-15,000 mi. and even tho you may not ride much in the rain ..... that's when you really need traction ...... Mike

[Peteoz]

And your choice is?

My choice and sizing is below my signature, Snoking
As Peter says, we get different brands and compounds out here, and very limited choices . The Kuhmos I am running here are great in the wet, but it appears Kuhmos are not so good in the US when it’s wet. Maybe different tyre compounds, maybe different road surfaces...

Pete

[Eckhard]

What does your insurance company think about the unauthorized use of a car tire on a motorcycle? I'm pretty sure no one dares to ask the question of their lawyers.

Are you betting everything you own and will ever own on them overlooking this loop hole to avoid paying out in the event of a mishap?

[Possible]

But is it actually unauthorized? From what I've read, the Spyder wheel bead profiles are car tire type bead profile, not motorcycle bead profile. So it
could be argued that putting a motorcycle tire on a Spyder would be dangerous.

[Steve W.]

..., but it appears Kuhmos are not so good in the US when it’s wet. Maybe different tyre compounds, maybe different road surfaces...

Pete

On the other hand, since you are "down under", maybe it's because you're riding on the other side of the rain drops?

.

[lvmyspyder]

I wanted to post this. I took my 2018 RT on a road trip today after I did a local speed and cornering rally locally on new Federal Formoza's, same size as the KENDA OEM's. Today, temp was never over 41 degrees and up over Snoqualmie Pass and then back on a run to Vantage and then back home. There was ice on the road in the morning and in some of the shady spots on I-90 and I am NOT advocating anyone run their Spyder's in snow or icy conditions. I did back down on the throttle as I hit some of those patches. In no way am I advocating putting anyone or our wonderful machines at risk. I will say a few things I would like to share. I was VERY happy I had three wheels. Some may not think that is as cool as 2-wheels. Whatever...I was planted. In fact in about 6 hours of riding, I was the only "bike" I saw on the freeway this trip and that is unusual. Likely it was because at 29-41 degrees temps no one was quite as stupid as I was. But it was simply a majestic day, sunny, but cold. Another point for the RT, it blocks a LOT of wind, so really never got that chill that comes with riding in that weather without chaps. What I can say is if you have the stock Kenda's and you have that wobble you can't get rid of. Ditch em. Don't think about it. Just do it. I have read on here of some other tires folks are running with good results and good for them. Today, I could actually take my hands off the steering yoke on my RT and could buzz about 2/10's of a mile without hands on. I could have gone longer and I did this several times. Again...not advocating that, but with the wobble that was always there, there was NO WAY I could have dreamed of doing that with the Kenda's. I tried one time as an experiment and that lasted about 1/2 a second before I had to put hands on the yoke again as the wobble got instantly worse. Car tire or not. I am dropping the word car from this tire, because it works like a dream on my RT. Smooth as silk up to 89mph on a bumpy, lousy road between Ellensburg and Vantage, the old Hi-way. Bottom line is riding today was almost effortless. I have the Baja Ron sway bar and put the Fox racing shocks on as well and those both helped, but the addition of these tires on the front end, truly made this machine perform like it was capable of and reinforced the decision to buy the Sypder in the first place. I am angry about one thing and that is why I did not do this as soon as I got my RT. I know they are car tires, but they perform amazingly on the Spyder, but if you really want a ride and performance that your Spyder is capable of, I strongly suggest you look at replacing your Kenda OEM front tires. I know PSI is also a concern for many. I started at 20 psi (very cold out) with the intention of adjusting, likely downward towards the 18ish range, but honestly, I think for these tires, that will be my sweet spot. Ride was not harsh and even the hiways suck in Washington, so I hit some holes and bumps. I am picky. Okay maybe even downright anal retentive about things and I could mess with the pressure to see if I could squeeze more out of these, but I like to run as much pressure as I can. Just wanted to share some thoughts with the forum if you were on the fence about changing out your front OEM Kenda's. Again, I am miffed at myself, because I have done this similar ride about 5 times since November, sometimes doing a larger loop around 325 miles at a shot. I could have had all 5 of those be butter smooth and not a wobbly PITButt I experienced with the Kenda's. That's just fact about how the Federal Formoza AZ01's are working on my RT. These are new, but yesterday and today, I put these things through their paces, so I could give an honest, objective "opinion" and today for sure, I finally felt in complete control, relaxed, but attentive and completely safe on my Spyder. In all honesty, that is the first time I have felt like that since I have owned it. I will take that kind of assurance when riding. Above anything, just wishing everyone on our forum safe rides wherever you are or wherever you go.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

But is it actually unauthorized? From what I've read, the Spyder wheel bead profiles are car tire type bead profile, not motorcycle bead profile. So it
could be argued that putting a motorcycle tire on a Spyder would be dangerous.

Thanks for pointing this out ..... and I'm sure a motorcycle tire would not seat on a " J " style rim ...... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What does your insurance company think about the unauthorized use of a car tire on a motorcycle? I'm pretty sure no one dares to ask the question of their lawyers.

Are you betting everything you own and will ever own on them overlooking this loop hole to avoid paying out in the event of a mishap?

Do you realize that EVERY Trike that Harley Davidson sells ..... has DUNLOP ....AUTO TIRES on it ...... how is this possible ????? .... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I wanted to post this. I took my 2018 RT on a road trip today after I did a local speed and cornering rally locally on new Federal Formoza's, same size as the KENDA OEM's. Today, temp was never over 41 degrees and up over Snoqualmie Pass and then back on a run to Vantage and then back home. There was ice on the road in the morning and in some of the shady spots on I-90 and I am NOT advocating anyone run their Spyder's in snow or icy conditions. I did back down on the throttle as I hit some of those patches. In no way am I advocating putting anyone or our wonderful machines at risk. I will say a few things I would like to share. I was VERY happy I had three wheels. Some may not think that is as cool as 2-wheels. Whatever...I was planted. In fact in about 6 hours of riding, I was the only "bike" I saw on the freeway this trip and that is unusual. Likely it was because at 29-41 degrees temps no one was quite as stupid as I was. But it was simply a majestic day, sunny, but cold. Another point for the RT, it blocks a LOT of wind, so really never got that chill that comes with riding in that weather without chaps. What I can say is if you have the stock Kenda's and you have that wobble you can't get rid of. Ditch em. Don't think about it. Just do it. I have read on here of some other tires folks are running with good results and good for them. Today, I could actually take my hands off the steering yoke on my RT and could buzz about 2/10's of a mile without hands on. I could have gone longer and I did this several times. Again...not advocating that, but with the wobble that was always there, there was NO WAY I could have dreamed of doing that with the Kenda's. I tried one time as an experiment and that lasted about 1/2 a second before I had to put hands on the yoke again as the wobble got instantly worse. Car tire or not. I am dropping the word car from this tire, because it works like a dream on my RT. Smooth as silk up to 89mph on a bumpy, lousy road between Ellensburg and Vantage, the old Hi-way. Bottom line is riding today was almost effortless. I have the Baja Ron sway bar and put the Fox racing shocks on as well and those both helped, but the addition of these tires on the front end, truly made this machine perform like it was capable of and reinforced the decision to buy the Sypder in the first place. I am angry about one thing and that is why I did not do this as soon as I got my RT. I know they are car tires, but they perform amazingly on the Spyder, but if you really want a ride and performance that your Spyder is capable of, I strongly suggest you look at replacing your Kenda OEM front tires. I know PSI is also a concern for many. I started at 20 psi (very cold out) with the intention of adjusting, likely downward towards the 18ish range, but honestly, I think for these tires, that will be my sweet spot. Ride was not harsh and even the hiways suck in Washington, so I hit some holes and bumps. I am picky. Okay maybe even downright anal retentive about things and I could mess with the pressure to see if I could squeeze more out of these, but I like to run as much pressure as I can. Just wanted to share some thoughts with the forum if you were on the fence about changing out your front OEM Kenda's. Again, I am miffed at myself, because I have done this similar ride about 5 times since November, sometimes doing a larger loop around 325 miles at a shot. I could have had all 5 of those be butter smooth and not a wobbly PITButt I experienced with the Kenda's. That's just fact about how the Federal Formoza AZ01's are working on my RT. These are new, but yesterday and today, I put these things through their paces, so I could give an honest, objective "opinion" and today for sure, I finally felt in complete control, relaxed, but attentive and completely safe on my Spyder. In all honesty, that is the first time I have felt like that since I have owned it. I will take that kind of assurance when riding. Above anything, just wishing everyone on our forum safe rides wherever you are or wherever you go.

Nice write-up, your fairly new here and to Spyders so you probably arn't aware that the Kenda vs. any Auto tire was figuered out back in 2010 .... in favor of Auto tires ...... and the Formosa's are a decent tire, and when they are worn out think about the Vredestein Q-5 ..... among it 's other great attributes is - it's may be the ONLY All-season tire that has Winter rating .... to you this means in cooler temps it functions better than reg All-season tires .... and consider 17-18 psi. Auto tires on Spyders do better at these lower pressures ..... Good luck ..... Mike

[ButterSmooth]

My choice and sizing is below my signature, Snoking
As Peter says, we get different brands and compounds out here, and very limited choices . The Kuhmos I am running here are great in the wet, but it appears Kuhmos are not so good in the US when it’s wet. Maybe different tyre compounds, maybe different road surfaces...

Pete

Kumhos blurb on the PS31 says different: ..."A high-technology summer compound features High Dispersible Micro Silica for a more even distribution of silica throughout the contact patch and High Grip Resin to enhance dry and wet traction. The compound is molded into a directional tread pattern with a solid center rib for improved high-speed stability and 3D Dimple Design heat dimples help minimize heat buildup in the tread blocks, increasing durability for reduced wear. Optimized lateral groove angles resist irregular wear while maximizing water displacement during wet-weather cornering, and the four wide, circumferential main grooves work with diagonal-sipe microgrooves to evacuate water from the footprint for hydroplaning resistance."

And Tirerack's customer ratings give it a 8.3 (good) wet traction rating.

The Ecsta AST isn't rated yet and the description is less wet-driving focused. Both PS31 and AST are temp A traction A rated.

[Peter Aawen]

The major issue with Kumho's not behaving too well in the wet is almost always related to users running them at pressures that are too high for the load our Spyders impose upon them; and too high for the tread compound to generate enough heat to work properly & get 'sticky' enough to do their job the way they can & will IF they are running at the right pressures!! But I've covered that quite a few times already, so I won't bore you all again!

[lvmyspyder]

Copy what you said Idaho and it makes sense. If the Kenda's had worked out for me on my machine, I too would have gone...meh, I will ride with them. If its working, its working. I was pretty skeptical actually about the Federal's, because they were pretty inexpensive, but when they got here, was pretty impressed with them. I was also not that much of a fan of the tread design, but I put them on and rode them hard for 100 miles and became more confident in them the entire time. Today, with wet and ice and just a good hi-way run, that bike felt like a different machine and what these machines are capable of. Whether someone changes out is personal preference. I wanted to post something I wish I had read so that I could have been confident in the $160 decision and time to make the swap. I even kept the Kenda's to go back to them if this did not work out. When I got home put the bike away and second thing I did was recycle the Kenda's. $160 is not a lot of money to try for a better solution, but quite honestly, would have spent double that had I known the Federals would have made this much of a difference.

[lvmyspyder]

Hey Mike. I am up for trying anything that will make that bike function and perform better. I appreciate the input on the Q-5's. Definitely consider those on the next swap or if these Federals start declining in performance as they age and start to wear. 20 psi, worked pretty well for me...but...I will try what you recommend and see how that changes the dynamics. Appreciate the recommendations and knowledge share.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The major issue with Kumho's not behaving too well in the wet is almost always related to users running them at pressures that are too high for the load our Spyders impose upon them; and too high for the tread compound to generate enough heat to work properly & get 'sticky' enough to do their job the way they can & will IF they are running at the right pressures!! But I've covered that quite a few times already, so I won't bore you all again!

and let me add another reason for Proper tire pressure .... because Spyders weigh a lot less than cars as Peter said they need less air pressure..... this allows the " sipes " cut into the tread to FLEX more easily .... these " sipes " are important to the tires WET road traction in conjunction with the actual trad compound ...... try lower PSI's you may be pleasantly surprised at the results ...... Mike

[Fatcycledaddy]

I hit a deer with my Spyder in July. a little over $12,000 in damage. I have CAR tires all the way around and the insurance company never said a single word about it, they paid for it all!!

[Fatcycledaddy]

It doesn't matter what the blurb says, real world experience says it all.
I installed a Kuhmo about 1,000 miles before we went on a 2 week trip towing our camper trailer. We average about 5,000 miles on each trip, then we have our normal riding thought the season. The tire road nice, handled well and I very happy with it. We took a trip out west the next year and was on the way back to Michigan when we hit some bad rain in Ohio. I felt like I was on ice, the back end was all over the place and I had to run at about 25-35 MPH in a 55zone just to feel safe. We stopped and got a room nd discussed that if it was raining the next day we would set until the roads were dry before we would head on home. The tire had about 13,000 miles on it at that point.

As soon as I got home I changed the tire and junked it.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It doesn't matter what the blurb says, real world experience says it all.
I installed a Kuhmo about 1,000 miles before we went on a 2 week trip towing our camper trailer. We average about 5,000 miles on each trip, then we have our normal riding thought the season. The tire road nice, handled well and I very happy with it. We took a trip out west the next year and was on the way back to Michigan when we hit some bad rain in Ohio. I felt like I was on ice, the back end was all over the place and I had to run at about 25-35 MPH in a 55zone just to feel safe. We stopped and got a room nd discussed that if it was raining the next day we would set until the roads were dry before we would head on home. The tire had about 13,000 miles on it at that point.

As soon as I got home I changed the tire and junked it.

Thanks for this timely info ..... you are just one of many, many folks here who have had the same experience with the Kumho's ..... Mike

[ButterSmooth]

It doesn't matter what the blurb says, real world experience says it all.
I installed a Kuhmo about 1,000 miles before we went on a 2 week trip towing our camper trailer. We average about 5,000 miles on each trip, then we have our normal riding thought the season. The tire road nice, handled well and I very happy with it. We took a trip out west the next year and was on the way back to Michigan when we hit some bad rain in Ohio. I felt like I was on ice, the back end was all over the place and I had to run at about 25-35 MPH in a 55zone just to feel safe. We stopped and got a room nd discussed that if it was raining the next day we would set until the roads were dry before we would head on home. The tire had about 13,000 miles on it at that point.

As soon as I got home I changed the tire and junked it.

Which Kuhmo-- Was that the AST? Posts like yours are really helpful -- now I know what to watch for. Thanks. The good news is that in the last 5 years, I haven't ridden in the rain once...