Rust dust

[PMK]

The purpose of the lube is to reduce the chance of the metals fretting. I'm not sure how freely it installs. The constant pressure from the output shaft against the pulley will eventually wear down the pulley(softer metal). The moly paste is there to act as a protective barrier between the metals and reduce the chance of the pulley breaking down and creating the red dust.

Pulley is a slip fit with clean splines on pulley and on gearbox shaft. Simple almost no effort slides on once aligned.

[billybovine]

I am not happy that I have this issue. But not really that upset, Just a pain in the butt inconvenient. I will trailer it to the dealer. 1 1/2 hours one way. Wait for it to be fixed and then take it home. That is if everything goes alright. If they decide that a new pulley is not needed. I will buy a pulley and swap it out next year when the next service is needed. It's like a couple months ago I needed new rear wheel. They should have machined the wheel correctly to start with. But they did not. So fixed under warranty. But that was worse because they would not order a new wheel under my say so. That made for a double trip. One to drop it off. Then they decided I needed a new wheel. Second trip to pick it up.

[troop]

I am not happy that I have this issue. But not really that upset, Just a pain in the butt inconvenient. I will trailer it to the dealer. 1 1/2 hours one way. Wait for it to be fixed and then take it home. That is if everything goes alright. If they decide that a new pulley is not needed. I will buy a pulley and swap it out next year when the next service is needed. It's like a couple months ago I needed new rear wheel. They should have machined the wheel correctly to start with. But they did not. So fixed under warranty. But that was worse because they would not order a new wheel under my say so. That made for a double trip. One to drop it off. Then they decided I needed a new wheel. Second trip to pick it up.

Hell .. If they decide that a new pulley is not needed, why not buy it on your dime and have them install it why it's apart?

[RICZ]

QUESTION.....
I plan to remove my front pulley and apply Moli grease - even though there's no red dust - for the sake of preventative maintenance. Can the bolt be re-used, or must I get a new bolt?

[PMK]

QUESTION.....
I plan to remove my front pulley and apply Moli grease - even though there's no red dust - for the sake of preventative maintenance. Can the bolt be re-used, or must I get a new bolt?

Do not use Moly Grease. Use Moly Paste. As for the bolt, the reason for not reusing it is on account of the pre applied threadlocker which is considered one time use. The bolts are not torque to yield so structurally they are fine. Be aware that on line suppliers are still selling the old style bolt / washer setup. Last week on the FB group a person showed his recently replaced bolt that he purchased on line and it was the older type.

[PinkRosePetal]

QUESTION.....
I plan to remove my front pulley and apply Moli grease - even though there's no red dust - for the sake of preventative maintenance. Can the bolt be re-used, or must I get a new bolt?

The official line is that the bolt is one use only but if it hasn't been overtightened it can be used again. The original locking compound will be damaged so you'll need to replace that if you feel it's important.

Most importantly you must torque the bolt to at least the updated torque, preferably a little more imho. You need to know your torque wrench is accurate, if it's old or of questionable origin it could easily be inaccurate by 10% - not good.

[PMK]

Hell .. If they decide that a new pulley is not needed, why not buy it on your dime and have them install it why it's apart?

Sure, if cost is no object that is a good plan. If there is no wear, replacement seems unwarranted but whatever works.

Taking that idea a step further, better to not wait until failure has begun by witnessing red dust, which is indicative the pulley has worn and should not be reinstalled, why not remove the pulley prior to experiencing any concerns, inspect, lube, reinstall and worry less. Just repeat again for inspection and lube at the interval you deem applicable.

[PinkRosePetal]

To the original poster... If your sprocket is only lightly worn, ie. after cleaning up is slips back onto the shaft nicely with little play then imho it's better to use it rather than fit a replacement. The reason is that the contact surface of the sprocket against the flange of the shaft is small (marginal imo and part of the original issue.). These contact surfaces will be worn because of their movement against each other but on the plus side they are worn into each other and have good contact so will fit well upon tightening.

If using a new sprocket the contact surface with the shaft flange will be smaller because the slightly worn part of the shaft will not make contact with the new sprocket. The new contact area will be smaller diameter and consequently have less surface area to carry the end load. I'm sure BRP have taken this into account because the updated sprocket is machined with a wider contact surface so as to be better usable on a worn shaft and also provide a larger contact area on a new shaft.

Important! Be sure when the sprocket is refitted that the shaft end is sufficiently recessed in the sprocket that the bolt flange cannot come into contact with it when fully tightened.

[RICZ]

Sorry, I did mean paste and not grease. From what I'm reading here, the bolts CAN be reused if it hadn't been over torqued. Would it be good to take the bolt to a wire wheel and remove the old thread locker? Is a thread locker recommended when re-assembling. And finally, is the new torque 110 ft-lbs

[troop]

110-115 ft/lb of torque can put a lot of stress on the bolt. Heck, a new bolt is only $10. No "coulda, shoulda, woulda" WTH

[RICZ]

OK, I'll buy a new bolt. Does any have the part number to make ordering easier?

[JP58]

Does the dealers have the bolt. Cheap cycle parts has it but shipping and tax comes to more than the cost of the bolt.

[jcthorne]

The official line is that the bolt is one use only but if it hasn't been overtightened it can be used again. The original locking compound will be damaged so you'll need to replace that if you feel it's important.

Most importantly you must torque the bolt to at least the updated torque, preferably a little more imho. You need to know your torque wrench is accurate, if it's old or of questionable origin it could easily be inaccurate by 10% - not good.

The specified torque values are for a new bolt with the thread lock compound already applied. Reusing a bolt with liquid thread lock will result in an over torque situation if you use the specified torque value. Bolts break when this is done and hence the requirement to replace the bolt as a one time use item. There is no specified torque value for a reused bolt with liquid lock compound applied.

[PinkRosePetal]

The specified torque values are for a new bolt with the thread lock compound already applied. Reusing a bolt with liquid thread lock will result in an over torque situation if you use the specified torque value. Bolts break when this is done and hence the requirement to replace the bolt as a one time use item. There is no specified torque value for a reused bolt with liquid lock compound applied.

Yes but I think you'll find that the thread lock compound addition to the torque is negligible. I don't know the lubrication properties of the dried lock compound comparative to a wet compound so can't comment on that.

The bolt is well up to withstanding the tension. If you look up tables for a bolt of that rating using that thread you'll find there's plenty of safety margin.

As I've mention before, I use a lubricated bolt and pull it to 115. Works for me but everyone needs to make there own decisions based on what they are comfortable with. Bearing in mind, of course, that they have a failure based on BRP recommendations therefore if it's not to be a repeat failure something other is required as a solution.

I've pulled a lubricated sprocket bolt until I felt it yield so I know where I am safe torque wise.

[PMK]

The specified torque values are for a new bolt with the thread lock compound already applied. Reusing a bolt with liquid thread lock will result in an over torque situation if you use the specified torque value. Bolts break when this is done and hence the requirement to replace the bolt as a one time use item. There is no specified torque value for a reused bolt with liquid lock compound applied.

FWIW, if run down torque is measured then subtracted from specified torque, you arrive at free running torque. Downside though is liquid threadlocker can act as a lubricant in some instances which can alter true force applied vs torque applied.

On fasteners I often use, not on Spyders, run down must be measured on locknuts, then added to specified torques.

[troop]

Screw-Hex. Flange DIN.6921 S.Grip
250001017
$10.49

[troop]

Does the dealers have the bolt. Cheap cycle parts has it but shipping and tax comes to more than the cost of the bolt.

Lee at Englehart's gets my stuff quick. With your closest dealer being a bit away, shipping cost might be plausible.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Can-Am-OEM-...IAAOSwfQlfX8IS
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Can-Am-OEM-...EAAOSwg-NfYQRS

[PMK]

Screw-Hex. Flange DIN.6921 S.Grip
250001017
$10.49

I do not have my Spyder maintenance logs handy. Is that the part number for the large flange bolt or the original bolt with small flange. I ask since last week a person posted that they ordered from Cheap Cycle Parts and was sent the old style vs the later upgraded style.

[pegasus1300]

Do not use Moly Grease. Use Moly Paste. As for the bolt, the reason for not reusing it is on account of the pre applied threadlocker which is considered one time use. The bolts are not torque to yield so structurally they are fine. Be aware that on line suppliers are still selling the old style bolt / washer setup. Last week on the FB group a person showed his recently replaced bolt that he purchased on line and it was the older type.

PMK what is the difference between moly paste and moly grease? TIA.[

[jcthorne]

I do not have my Spyder maintenance logs handy. Is that the part number for the large flange bolt or the original bolt with small flange. I ask since last week a person posted that they ordered from Cheap Cycle Parts and was sent the old style vs the later upgraded style.

The two styles have different part numbers. The parts catalogs for 2014 and 15 still show the older bolt and washer. Nothing wrong with the old one as long as you use it with the washer. You can use the new style with the large flange on any of them as well.

Its likely that Cheap Cycle Parts sent the part number ordered. The PN has not been superseded and both are still available.

[jcthorne]

PMK what is the difference between moly paste and moly grease? TIA.[

Moly grease is a grease with moly added to supplement its high pressure lubrication qualities.
Moly paste is made of moly powder with just enough grease or other compounds to hold it together as a paste. The moly IS the lubricant, not an additive.

Moly paste works well in extreme pressure situations and does not wash out or melt like petroleum based grease. Spline lubes are almost always a form of moly paste.

[RICZ]

The part number for the flange bolt is 705502292. Just ordered mine from my dealer who doesn't keep at least one in stock. When I mentioned why they should, the reply was, we've never seen a spline failure. That's hard to believe.

[BazF]

I just yesterday had a dealer service and asked them to check the pulley ( I check it occasionally and have never seen a problem). They reported no problem at 14000km, and they also told me they had never seen a spline failure. Why wouldn't I believe them ?

[Peter Aawen]

....... When I mentioned why they should, the reply was, we've never seen a spline failure. That's hard to believe.

....... They reported no problem at 14000km, and they also told me they had never seen a spline failure. Why wouldn't I believe them ?

Admittedly, some dealers just might not ever bother to keep aware of what's happening in the broader Spyder community and so they really may not be aware of this as an issue (poor product awareness & customer service! ) but I reckon it's more likely 'weasel wording' their way around the issue - cos if you look at it out of the corner of your jaundiced dealer's eye and put a PR spin on it the right way, then that stuff in bold in the quotes is probably true!!

But only cos it's not usually the shaft or the spline on the shaft that fails, it's the bloody bore in the pulley that goes ON the spline that craps itself!

[PMK]

The two styles have different part numbers. The parts catalogs for 2014 and 15 still show the older bolt and washer. Nothing wrong with the old one as long as you use it with the washer. You can use the new style with the large flange on any of them as well.

Its likely that Cheap Cycle Parts sent the part number ordered. The PN has not been superseded and both are still available.

I bought mine from the local dealer. I know the guys there, got the impression the earlier style had been superseded, but honestly did not read it or see it myself. Whatever Kevin did while looking up the PN, he got the large flange for me though. If both are still available then I doubt it makes a difference which is used.

I plan to reuse our large flange bolt since I did drill it and locwire it.