Belt drive is fine. I've had chain, shaft and belt drive bikes and I like belts better than the rest. I'd like to see a truly automatic (CVT?) transmission. Even better than a CVT is a nice DCT like the 2018+ Gold Wings have. I test rode a 2018 base model 'Wing w/the 7spd DCT. I put it in Sport mode and I came close to sliding off the back of the bike. BRP could take a few lessons from that. I used to enjoy shifting. I don't anymore. I just want to point and shoot.
Belt drive is fine. I've had chain, shaft and belt drive bikes and I like belts better than the rest. I'd like to see a truly automatic (CVT?) transmission. Even better than a CVT is a nice DCT like the 2018+ Gold Wings have. I test rode a 2018 base model 'Wing w/the 7spd DCT. I put it in Sport mode and I came close to sliding off the back of the bike. BRP could take a few lessons from that. I used to enjoy shifting. I don't anymore. I just want to point and shoot.
I get on my buds F6B and it's just buttery, I put a Lamonster belt damper on and it took out most of the 70-75 mph belt vibe, but from the reports here I now have to worry abot it failing and taking out the belt. I have never rode a bike with DCT, but I do enjoy the paddle shifter on my F3L as I don't miss pulling a clutch lever.
The 2018+ Wings either have a 6spd manual or the 7spd DCT. With the DCT, there's a shift mode (paddle style) or a fully automatic mode. In the automatic mode, you just twist the throttle. That's it.
Check out "Tilting Motor Works" for a reverse trike kit that tilts!
The August issue of Rider Magazine has a great article about TMW. They do not mention the price though...except that it is competitive with similar conversions.
Based on what I think I know, not going to spend $40K for a new bike, conversion kit, installation, and voiding of the warranty.
The pictures in Rider, of a TMW on both a GW and a Harley are really neat to look at.
Last edited by ARtraveler; 08-30-2020 at 10:14 AM.
Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.
The August issue of Rider Magazine has a great article about TMW. They do not mention the price though...except that it is competitive with similar conversions.
Based on what I think I know, not going to spend $40K for a new bike, conversion kit, installation, and voiding of the warranty.
The pictures in Rider, of a TMW on both a GW and a Harley are really neat to look at.
The “for sale” used units On their sight are selling in the range of $18k-$35k....pricey trike territory. $15k to convert your own bike. Intriguing though.....
I'm hearing rumors about a tilting Spyder coming to the market in the next year or so, we know that a patent was applied for in 2009......
No matter what BRP does I would like to see a shaft drive on there next gen touring bike.
I totally agree on the shaft drive; they have proven to be stone reliable on the BMW bikes I own.
I would also like to see two other things;
1. more sensibly designed luggage (something easier to fit full face helmets in, I can never quite figure out the magic position.) Maybe just slight larger on the side cases and top case. The current top case design is just sort of goofy the way it tapers down to the bottom. A consistent larger size all the way down would be much better.
2. a small turbo diesel engine, you could get more torque and three or four times as good of fuel mileage with diesel. Imagine a Spyder with a 7 gallon tank that gets 100mpg. Better yet; reduce the size of the tank in such a way to have a larger storage compartment where the itty-bitty one in front of the seat is now. A 5 gallon tank at 100mpg is more than double the range we have now.
3. ( I know I said two--so shoot me ) make the fuel tank easier to fill to the top with better venting & overflow lines.
I'm not seeing 100mpg with anything, even a hybrid or diesel hybrid. I can see a consistant 50mpg with a diesel engine but I think that would be the limit.
Check out "Tilting Motor Works" for a reverse trike kit that tilts!
One of our bike chapter members bought the TMW's GW conversion, had it put on, road it and hated it from day one. Said it was very hard to steer at low speeds and the dynamics of tilted cornering were a little different than a 2 wheeler. Sold it after a couple months and bought a conventional GW trike.
O. J. Ridin' "Lucille", the MusicMaker
a 2017 F3 Limited (Pure Magnesium Metallic)
Wife, Jan, riding "Ruby Jane"
a 2016 F3-T (Intense Red Pearl)
I'm not seeing 100mpg with anything, even a hybrid or diesel hybrid. I can see a consistant 50mpg with a diesel engine but I think that would be the limit.
If a 3200lb car can get 50 (VW Jetta TDI; we had one) then a 1000lb trike can get 100. Diesel motorcycles. although few exist, get upwards of 160mpg. There is no doubt in my mind that properly built, tuned and aspirated a diesel Spyder can get 100 and still have the same acceleration capabilities it does now with better top end speeds to boot.
If a 3200lb car can get 50 (VW Jetta TDI; we had one) then a 1000lb trike can get 100. Diesel motorcycles. although few exist, get upwards of 160mpg. There is no doubt in my mind that properly built, tuned and aspirated a diesel Spyder can get 100 and still have the same acceleration capabilities it does now with better top end speeds to boot.
If a 3200lb car can get 50 (VW Jetta TDI; we had one) then a 1000lb trike can get 100. Diesel motorcycles. although few exist, get upwards of 160mpg. There is no doubt in my mind that properly built, tuned and aspirated a diesel Spyder can get 100 and still have the same acceleration capabilities it does now with better top end speeds to boot.
But have you ever ridden a diesel motorcycle?? I have, a bit over 1/2 the way around Australia.(pretty much equivalent to across the USA & 1/2 way back again!) and it became very expensive very quickly!! But the cost of getting all the fillings in my teeth replaced every 20,000 miles was the least of it!! The fuel economy was good (but not anywhere near 100 mpg ) and the low down torque was fantastic, but the machine was never going to be fast simply because the engine was sooo bloody heavy and the vibrations from the engine not only made it lurch & wobble as each cylinder fired but they also transferred into everything; made every bone & muscle in my body hurt pdq; and pretty much required running the spanners over every nut & bolt on the thing every time I stopped for fuel!! And it vibrated the frame to pieces repeatedly while chewing out chains faster'n I could inhale spaghetti!
Now admittedly, diesel engines have come a long way since I did that particular trip, but there was no way that 2 wheeled 2 cylinder naturally aspirated diesel monster of a machine would ever reach the same sorts of speeds readily achievable by even a bog stock standard Spyder; it just vibrated too much; and every stroke of the engine caused the whole thing to jolt & lurch in sympathy.... or maybe it was in agony!! Maybe a modern small capacity multi-cylinder 'Common Rail' type Direct Injection Diesel with a small turbo to help iron out the power strokes would be better, but I reckon even those are still going to be fairly heavy lumps of metal that'd be heavy to muscle around at low speeds & bloody hard to coax into turning off 'straight ahead' at any worthwhile cruising speed.... and when you're out there in the wide open spaces with little to alert you that there's a corner coming up; suddenly realising that there IS as you desperately try to haul a large lump of highly resistant machinery into even the most sweeping of curves is bum puckeringly NOT FUN! There again, that bit definitely IS a whole lot more fun than the 'beyond bum puckering' moment when you realise that the very next thing to smash into and become a widely spread 'at one' with the scenery is YOU!! Do you reeeaally need to ask me how I know that for a fact?? I had a few weeks of enforced bed-rest after that particular incident; but as soon as I could walk without the casts, I went back out there.... indestructible idiot that I was back then!
Anyhow, I'm not really convinced that a diesel motorcycle or any type of diesel Spyder/Ryker etc would be all that good - great concept, maybe; possibly even theoretically a viable machine; but for my 2 bob's worth, I doubt it'd ever work well enough to become anything more than a punishing novelty torture device ridden by suckers who might think they're tough.... before the machine pounds that right outta them! Still, there's one born ev... arrr, you know how that bit goes!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 08-31-2020 at 06:07 PM.
I totally agree on the shaft drive; they have proven to be stone reliable on the BMW bikes I own.
I would also like to see two other things;
1. more sensibly designed luggage (something easier to fit full face helmets in, I can never quite figure out the magic position.) Maybe just slight larger on the side cases and top case. The current top case design is just sort of goofy the way it tapers down to the bottom. A consistent larger size all the way down would be much better.
2. a small turbo diesel engine, you could get more torque and three or four times as good of fuel mileage with diesel. Imagine a Spyder with a 7 gallon tank that gets 100mpg. Better yet; reduce the size of the tank in such a way to have a larger storage compartment where the itty-bitty one in front of the seat is now. A 5 gallon tank at 100mpg is more than double the range we have now.
3. ( I know I said two--so shoot me ) make the fuel tank easier to fill to the top with better venting & overflow lines.
Not a fan of diesels, but what could be a good MPG engine for the Spyder is the Can-Am Offroad 171 HP 900 Ace Turbo, or the tamer 150 HP 900 ACE Turbo that Ski-Doo uses in there sleds, and did I mention that either engine would make for a stupid fast Spyder
I totally agree on the shaft drive; they have proven to be stone reliable on the BMW bikes I own.
I would also like to see two other things;
1. more sensibly designed luggage (something easier to fit full face helmets in, I can never quite figure out the magic position.) Maybe just slight larger on the side cases and top case. The current top case design is just sort of goofy the way it tapers down to the bottom. A consistent larger size all the way down would be much better.
2. a small turbo diesel engine, you could get more torque and three or four times as good of fuel mileage with diesel. Imagine a Spyder with a 7 gallon tank that gets 100mpg. Better yet; reduce the size of the tank in such a way to have a larger storage compartment where the itty-bitty one in front of the seat is now. A 5 gallon tank at 100mpg is more than double the range we have now.
3. ( I know I said two--so shoot me ) make the fuel tank easier to fill to the top with better venting & overflow lines.
As for the luggage. BRP did address this issue with the new RT. I am able to carry 3 full face helmets in my RTL. Two in the top box (with com units) and one in the side box. My wife's 2018 F3L we can easily~ fit two in her top box.
2021 Sea To Sky, 2020 RTL
Isn't it weird that in AMERICA our flag and our culture offend so many people...... but our benefits don't?
Well, it's obvious some of y'all have never driven a modern diesel car. Both the Jetta and now the Passat are smooth as silk, quiet, fast and fuel efficient. When the Jetta was new in 2006, I had it to 130 many times and it was still not at the red line. The Passat is not as fast nor does it get as good a fuel mileage but that is to be expected as it IS a larger, heavier car at 3400lbs. Still, it will easily do 120 and when we can do all hiway miles it gets between 40 an 45mpg. OH! and I never said naturally aspirated; I did say properly aspirated--huge difference. I'm gonna leave it at that because I know some, including BRP, will never buy into a diesel Spyder, but I think that's a huge loss for everyone.
But have you ever ridden a diesel motorcycle?? I have, a bit over 1/2 the way around Australia.(pretty much equivalent to across the USA & 1/2 way back again!) and it became very expensive very quickly!! But the cost of getting all the fillings in my teeth replaced every 20,000 miles was the least of it!! The fuel economy was good (but not anywhere near 100 mpg ) and the low down torque was fantastic, but the machine was never going to be fast simply because the engine was sooo bloody heavy and the vibrations from the engine not only made it lurch & wobble as each cylinder fired but they also transferred into everything; made every bone & muscle in my body hurt pdq; and pretty much required running the spanners over every nut & bolt on the thing every time I stopped for fuel!! And it vibrated the frame to pieces repeatedly while chewing out chains faster'n I could inhale spaghetti!
Now admittedly, diesel engines have come a long way since I did that particular trip, but there was no way that 2 wheeled 2 cylinder naturally aspirated diesel monster of a machine would ever reach the same sorts of speeds readily achievable by even a bog stock standard Spyder; it just vibrated too much; and every stroke of the engine caused the whole thing to jolt & lurch in sympathy.... or maybe it was in agony!! Maybe a modern small capacity multi-cylinder 'Common Rail' type Direct Injection Diesel with a small turbo to help iron out the power strokes would be better, but I reckon even those are still going to be fairly heavy lumps of metal that'd be heavy to muscle around at low speeds & bloody hard to coax into turning off 'straight ahead' at any worthwhile cruising speed.... and when you're out there in the wide open spaces with little to alert you that there's a corner coming up; suddenly realising that there IS as you desperately try to haul a large lump of highly resistant machinery into even the most sweeping of curves is bum puckeringly NOT FUN! There again, that bit definitely IS a whole lot more fun than the 'beyond bum puckering' moment when you realise that the very next thing to smash into and become a widely spread 'at one' with the scenery is YOU!! Do you reeeaally need to ask me how I know that for a fact?? I had a few weeks of enforced bed-rest after that particular incident; but as soon as I could walk without the casts, I went back out there.... indestructible idiot that I was back then!
Anyhow, I'm not really convinced that a diesel motorcycle or any type of diesel Spyder/Ryker etc would be all that good - great concept, maybe; possibly even theoretically a viable machine; but for my 2 bob's worth, I doubt it'd ever work well enough to become anything more than a punishing novelty torture device ridden by suckers who might think they're tough.... before the machine pounds that right outta them! Still, there's one born ev... arrr, you know how that bit goes!
Wow Peter, tell us what you really think about diesel bikes!!
Peter, we are totally on the same page on the diesel bikes, can you imagine the shocks it would take to make it a 'rideable' machine not even considering the engine weight.
I don't necessarily need a tilting Spyder or a diesel Spyder (although a turbo diesel might be pretty cool!) but I'd like to see an F3 style with a shaft rather than belt drive and larger, sturdier luggage - especially the trunk. Not that I'd turn my nose up at a tilting Spyder...
I don't tend to find that fundamental changes are necessarily good. The current Spyders keep getting better and better, and it tends to be in major changes that big problems show up (and we complain about two pieces of plastic that don't fit together perfectly). I've got to admit that I'd love a leaning Spyder, but I also would wait until at least the second year to risk my money on one. That, however, would probably be a third variation on the theme (and not be called a Spyder or a Ryker).
As to diesel, I can't see that it would increase sales for them, and it would be a niche product in a niche product line (even with cars, diesel is a very small minority in the US). Electric or, preferably, hybrid, would be a more likely move to the future, but, again, I don't see them pioneering new tech in a niche market.
I'd rather have the benefits of 3.0 and 4.0 product lines, than to keep returning to 1.0 ideas that are costly and risky for a company who I depend on to make the one product that matches my needs, and to do so with what I think are small sales numbers and profit margins.
2020 RT Limited in the ultra cool Deep Marsala Dark edition.
Baja Ron Anti-Sway Bar, LED reflectors, Lamonster USB Charger (and phone mount), Can-Am Low Windshield, X-Creen Tour Variable Windscreen Spoiler Blade, Power Commander, Dilithium powered Flux Capacitor (not yet fully functional). Maintained by Lou at Pirate Powersports.
Next Generation Spyder?
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Originally Posted by MONK
) make the fuel tank easier to fill to the top with better venting & overflow lines.
But the cost of getting all the fillings in my teeth replaced every 20,000 miles was the least of it!! 
The fuel economy was good (but not anywhere near 100 mpg 
) and the low down torque was fantastic, but the machine was never going to be fast simply because the engine was sooo bloody heavy and the vibrations from the engine not only made it lurch & wobble as each cylinder fired but they also transferred into everything; made every bone & muscle in my body hurt pdq; and pretty much required running the spanners over every nut & bolt on the thing every time I stopped for fuel!! And it vibrated the frame to pieces repeatedly while chewing out chains faster'n I could inhale spaghetti! 
Do you reeeaally need to ask me how I know that for a fact?? I had a few weeks of enforced bed-rest after that particular incident; but as soon as I could walk without the casts, I went back out there.... indestructible idiot that I was back then! 
Still, there's one born ev... arrr, you know how that bit goes! 
