I Hate To Be Negitive B-U-T

[MONK]

You reckon? If you look closely I think you'll find China cast into the rear wheel. You can be sure it's not the only part.

Best of luck finding ANY vehicle sold in the US/Canada/UK/etc that doesn't have parts made in China/Japan/S. Korea/Mexico/etc. Literally impossible. Harley Davidson, the "All American motorcycle" has 70% of it's parts made outside the US. Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford all have many parts made outside the US/Canada.

[Fatcycledaddy]

I purchased the first model Yamaha Venture made in 1983. That machine packed my wife and me all over the western US several times over several years in a row without so much as even a hiccup. It had all the bells and whistles that my 14 RTS has today with the exception of the paddle shift and the on the fly rear suspension adjustment. One of the two most reliable and best rides I've ever owned. My guess is that all the big 4 Japanese companies have in their possession one or all of BRP's model spyders, and have digested all their faults and have refined models of their own ready to build and market in the not too distant future.

I have owned 3 Yamaha venture royals. 1986, 1989, and 1991. While being great bikes ahead of their time, they were NOT without their own set of problems. The stator was weak, carburetor diaphragms were weak, and with hard shims for valves it cost as much to check them as it did to adjust them. Then there is a seal for where the output shaft for the driveshaft that would fail and cause them to leak oil, and the front fork seals that would need to be replaced regularly. They tried to fix the fork seal problem with rubber boots on the front forks of the 1991.

So yes they are great bikes, I still own the 1989, but they, as with anything mechanical made, had their own set of problems.

Now I can talk about all of the great things of the ventures, how they had more performance and better handling than any other touring bike at that time, how it pulled my camper trailer with ease, how I only had to work on it one time when on a trip, and so on.

So just like anything in life, we can dwell on all the negative things about something, or we can dwell on the positive things about it. I am not saying that we need to ignore the negative things, but are we blowing them out of per portion by thinking only about those?

I own two spyder RT Limited models, one 2015 that I put 52,000 miles on before I hit a deer with it the first week of Aug., and the 2020 rt limited I pick up on the 14 of Aug. and now have over 800 miles on it. Neither one are perfect, but man are they a lot of fun! I also found them both EXTREMELY dependable.

[Fatcycledaddy]

Agreed!!! Just take the drive pulley failures as one example. Folks like us buy these machines coz we simply want one. Many experience buyer remorse, or at least alarm, not too long thereafter. Some keep going back for more punishment. We are a niche market and BRP has us by the short & curlies and keep serving up the same levels of quality & reliability.

Hmmm...here we have a bike with traction control, stability control, a nanny that tries to keep you safe, mine is paddle shift, downshifts automatically, the floorboard drops when braking hard, yet when snapped back in place hold my weight, the windshield moves up and down, and a design like nothing else on the market today.

I myself think it is an engineering marvel.

[SuperG]

You reckon? If you look closely I think you'll find China cast into the rear wheel. You can be sure it's not the only part.

You've got a point. We live in a global economy and nothing is 100% native anything.

[FastOldGuy]

Brutal... Most people Know Quality but DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR IT. Manufacturers are faced with Volume or Quality. Most choose Volume but it can Bite You/Them In the Ass at some point. It's Not Only BRP, It's 95% of everything we Buy. Want a Bitch session, my 2018 H-D StreetGlide rides like ****. The OEM shocks on the bike are Crap and a lot of the engineering is Piss Poor. Boats, Cars, Homes, you name it. Get into Russian quality and you'll really get Pissed. A replacement part probably Will Not Fit out of the box.

[carbonation]

This is all unsubstantiated opinion, displaying a lack of understanding how large, complex organizations function.

You don't know me, I don't know you.
I will say I am quite familiar with several "large, complex organizations function" though.
While aware this will not change your mind, I've been on design, manufacturing, and service teams. I've created training for technicians. Written service manuals. Interfaced with Boeing, Ralston-Purina, Enterprise Lease, Xerox, Fiserv, OSG, GM, Ford, Chrysler, True Manufacturing. A few others.
I'm pretty sure that I have a good grasp on many aspects of business and company strategy.
Absolutely, by far, best quality control and seamless manufacturing... Toyota. (For normal folks. Wealthy folks can still get a Lear or Shuttle.)

[2dogs]

I have owned 3 Yamaha venture royals. 1986, 1989, and 1991. While being great bikes ahead of their time, they were NOT without their own set of problems. The stator was weak, carburetor diaphragms were weak, and with hard shims for valves it cost as much to check them as it did to adjust them. Then there is a seal for where the output shaft for the driveshaft that would fail and cause them to leak oil, and the front fork seals that would need to be replaced regularly. They tried to fix the fork seal problem with rubber boots on the front forks of the 1991.

So yes they are great bikes, I still own the 1989, but they, as with anything mechanical made, had their own set of problems.
......

My only issue was the stator and it was replaced under a recall. By the way, if it's true, HD has had a patent on a leaning reverse trike for years now. I've seen the diagram before and possibly someday it may be produced. Guess where the HD factory has moved.

[happyspyder2039]

Who cares what the wires look like. As long as it works. Ryde and enjoy.

[pegasus1300]

Now that is a coincidence. I also purchased a new 1983 Yamaha Venture, but bought mine as a left over model in 1984.

I also started luxury touring on a 1983 Venture bought in 1986 with 23,000mi. sold with 103,000, a 1986, 1987,1988, and 2 2008s. loved the V4 motor. Still have the 1987. If I could keep it up I would still ride it. It is still one of the most modern "antiques" around. Although it has 3 wheels I have always felt at home on the Spyder because it felt "Venture like" to me. With nearly 60,000 mostly trouble free miles on a VTwin I expect to get a 100,000 miles out of it.
I had thought of converting it to 3 wheels, but it would have cost $15,000+ with no reverse ,no ABS, no FI, no traction Control, no Stability Control, and still been a 15 year old trike in the end. I bought my 2012 used with only 8500 mi. for $15,000. With all of the above plus fewer miles plus the paddle shifter, what an upgrade that was. There have been a few glitches with the Spyder that aggravate me, but so far I can deal with them, and work around them. It is still a ball to ride and I ride it every chance I get.

BTW I no idea there were so many former Venture/Royal Star riders here.

[ThreeWheels]

BTW I no idea there were so many former Venture/Royal Star riders here.

Previous bike. Previous wife. More hair.

Copy of DSC00026.jpg

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Guess where the HD factory has moved.

They've had factories overseas for years. They just moved more overseas last year. But think about this. We prefer to have products made in the US, right? Well........., maybe, just maybe, folks in the far east and India prefer to buy products made in their countries. So, if H-D wants to improve their sales in those areas of the world they may just need to build their bikes over there. Suppose?

And with all the trade war stuff going on they may not have much choice but build overseas in order to have an affordable bike in overseas markets. Besides, all of their US sales still come from US factories.

[ned64]

Im another one that had a Royal Star Tour Deluxe. It was a 2007, loved it. Finally let it go 2 months ago. Heavy bike for a guy getting older with a bad back. Loved the ride an wife loved being on the back seat looking around an sometimes nodding off. Never had a problem with it. Now a spyder rider an love it too.

[RideOn]

Yougo, oh yes, a real el cheapo that would collapse in a heap of rubble.

You know how to double the value of a Yugo?
Fill the gas tank...

[Mikey]

They've had factories overseas for years. They just moved more overseas last year. But think about this. We prefer to have products made in the US, right? Well........., maybe, just maybe, folks in the far east and India prefer to buy products made in their countries. So, if H-D wants to improve their sales in those areas of the world they may just need to build their bikes over there. Suppose?

And with all the trade war stuff going on they may not have much choice but build overseas in order to have an affordable bike in overseas markets. Besides, all of their US sales still come from US factories.

Corporate America is going to put there plants any where they can make the most bang for the buck, hands down and we all should know that by know! Between unions and corporate, always wanting more money in our pockets, we are backing ourselves up against a double edged sword that sucks! Some thing has to give, it's a big snow ball rolling down a mountain the more it go's the bigger it gets! Action, reaction, sooner or later we have to see what we are doing to ourselves!!

[gbdola]

I've also complained about the quality of my new 2020 RT Limited in Asphalt Gray.
Some of you may remember my previous post, but for completeness, I'll repeat it here.

After the first two weeks of ownership, I found that the anti-dirt force shield has totally and completely failed with no warning of any kind.
AND, it appears that, despite my complaints, it's not covered under the warranty.
I've been reduced to using soap, rags and a bucket of water to keep the machine clean.
How humiliating.

too funny......................

[bikerbillone]

Yeah, good one 3wheels, I've been following this thread find out more about this 'dirt shield'.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Corporate America is going to put there plants any where they can make the most bang for the buck, hands down and we all should know that by know!

Japanese and German companies do the same. That's why Nissans, Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs, and others are built in the US. Cheaper than in their home country. I don't know if it it's still the case but several years ago I read where the highest paid auto workers in the world were the Japanese.

[UtahPete]

Corporate America is going to put there plants any where they can make the most bang for the buck, hands down and we all should know that by know! Between unions and corporate, always wanting more money in our pockets, we are backing ourselves up against a double edged sword that sucks! Some thing has to give, it's a big snow ball rolling down a mountain the more it go's the bigger it gets! Action, reaction, sooner or later we have to see what we are doing to ourselves!!

What is the alternative? Only government services, like the Post Office, can afford to make profitability a low priority.

When you say 'corporate America' as though it were a pejorative, you are condemning the whole capitalist model (which is okay). I'm not sure that's your intent.

Putting the worker first is the basis for communism. So let's quit with the jingoism.

[UtahPete]

You don't know me, I don't know you.
I will say I am quite familiar with several "large, complex organizations function" though.
While aware this will not change your mind, I've been on design, manufacturing, and service teams. I've created training for technicians. Written service manuals. Interfaced with Boeing, Ralston-Purina, Enterprise Lease, Xerox, Fiserv, OSG, GM, Ford, Chrysler, True Manufacturing. A few others.
I'm pretty sure that I have a good grasp on many aspects of business and company strategy.
Absolutely, by far, best quality control and seamless manufacturing... Toyota. (For normal folks. Wealthy folks can still get a Lear or Shuttle.)

Going to a theatre doesn't make you a producer. Even being in a production doesn't make you a producer.

Until you have shouldered the full burden of leadership in an organization, you have no idea what is involved.

[bikerbillone]

The Postal Service is a total independent agency that can arbitrarily raise rates and operate as say, UPS or FEDEX, or Amazon, therein lies the problem. That's not to say it could not be run more efficiently. Sadly, the Postal Service at one time had all the parcel post delivery and let it slip away, bad business decision...... But it was very difficult to for the USPS to raise the $ dollars to modernize to handle the volume, as opposed to UPS, they developed a business plan to deliver to densely populated areas, and then, then got themselves listed on the stock exchange and of they went. As a 35 year veteran of the USPS I saw much of this evolve, and that's sort of a short story to a very long story, the trail of tears is all about the money which if often the case. I don't dismiss management which has often been at the mercy of the politicians and unions, but it is what it is. The USPS is huge by any standard serving the mail needs of every person in this country six days a week, an almost impossible task, but it gets done.

[Stache]

BTW I no idea there were so many former Venture/Royal Star riders here.

2012 Royal Star Venture, 42000km. Prior to that 2009 Royal Star Tour Deluxe my son now has. I put 40000+ on that.

I’ve had my ‘20 RTL since May, 6000km so far. The RTL feels like the venture, luxurious, comfortable. My 60yr old knees spent 29 years in Canada’s infantry, so holding up the 847lb 2-wheeler got challenging. I don’t have any trouble holding up the 1206lb 3-wheeler.

WRT build quality, the kind of quality we desire would put the price out of reach. My Spyder starts when I want it to, runs reliably until I turn it off, comfortable, dependable, support and service is acceptable. I’ve got what I paid for and I’m quite happy with it.

[UtahPete]

The Postal Service is a total independent agency that can arbitrarily raise rates and operate as say, UPS or FEDEX, or Amazon, therein lies the problem. That's not to say it could not be run more efficiently. Sadly, the Postal Service at one time had all the parcel post delivery and let it slip away, bad business decision...... But it was very difficult to for the USPS to raise the $ dollars to modernize to handle the volume, as opposed to UPS, they developed a business plan to deliver to densely populated areas, and then, then got themselves listed on the stock exchange and of they went. As a 35 year veteran of the USPS I saw much of this evolve, and that's sort of a short story to a very long story, the trail of tears is all about the money which if often the case. I don't dismiss management which has often been at the mercy of the politicians and unions, but it is what it is. The USPS is huge by any standard serving the mail needs of every person in this country six days a week, an almost impossible task, but it gets done.

I was hoping not to have to post yet again off-topic on this thread. But, I can't let this blatantly false information and attitude go unchallenged.

After 35 years with the USPS, apparently never in an executive position, you think you are qualified to address the organizational challenges of the Post Office? You don't even know that it's an agency of the Federal Government, fully controlled by Congress (for funding) and by the White House (for leadership and management)? Does your pension check come from a trust fund or the federal government?

The Post Office, by design and purpose, provides critical mail service even to those places and at a rate that 'loses' money. Unlike the UPS and Fedex, which can pick and choose which routes to service and set its rates accordingly without any oversight whatsoever from government. The UPS and Fedex are for-profit corporations, able to raise whatever funds it needs from the private equity and bond markets, completely independently of any act of Congress. Similarly, the USPS employees are paid wages and benefits per federal law and regulations; the UPS and Fedex pay what the market can bear.

Thank you for validating my earlier claim, that being in an organization does not in any way qualify you to make judgments about the leadership or management of that organization.

So, to all those on this forum who are inclined to prognosticate negatively with conspiracy theories about the incompetence or evil intent of people and issues you know nothing of; please don't. Unless you have professional, academic or other expertise in the leadership and management of large, complex organizations and can intelligently address the many challenges they face in a global marketplace, your uninformed opinion adds nothing of value to the conversation.

BRP's design engineers and executive management have produced a breakthrough product that we all are able to enjoy and appreciate, in spite of whatever decisions those professionals had to make to bring it to market and have it generate a loyal following. It's fine to say you wish it had that feature or this level of quality, but it's not okay to defame the company and all its hard-working employees just because you don't like something about the product or its support network. There is entirely too much of that going on in this country, and it solves nothing.

[bikerbillone]

Thank you Pete, you seem to quite knowledgeable about so many things. In the future I'll try and keep my experience to myself and rely on your comments. Oh yes, and thanks so much for your masterpiece post, I'll keep in my 'forever' file. Holy smoke, it's just an opinion, seems we all have one.

[UtahPete]

Thank you Pete, you seem to quite knowledgeable about so many things. In the future I'll try and keep my experience to myself and rely on your comments. Oh yes, and thanks so much for your masterpiece post, I'll keep in my 'forever' file. Holy smoke, it's just an opinion, seems we all have one.

We only know what we know. You know a lot more than I do about some things, I'm sure.

I usually enjoy your posts, and I appreciate your service in the USPS; it's one of those careers that can be very demanding and at the same time satisfying. I did not intend to demean in any way the honest work that the majority of Americans do every day, just to say that it's one thing to grouse about managers in the locker room or whatever (a great American past-time that I've participated in myself at times) and another to impute incompetence or evil intent to them for decisions we don't understand.

[Claimbo]

Quality at Can Am stinks! I have a rear suspension fault that has been there since I picked up the bike. Can Am will not replace the bike or refund. The quality has gone down since my first bike, a 2013 RTS. I believe Can Am has heavily relied on computerization instead of simplicity. Then they rely on there dealers to fix the factories mistakes. The dealers can't fix the factories mistakes. They don't get the support from Can Am nor the parts or technical support to make repairs. Very sad. This is my last bike. I urge everyone to buy from another manufacturer!