Strange Tales of My First Oil Change

[CapnPete]

I just completed my first oil and filter change on my F3-T. A couple of odd things....

The oil filter was severely deformed, into what was basically a triangular shape. The steel liner inside the filter had compressed down to the point that I could not get the plastic rod with the O rings thru the filter. I had to cut the filter off with shears.

I put the used oil back into qt oil bottles and found that I drained out almost 6 quarts. The shop manual says it should hold 5 qt (5.2 if you change the HCM surface filter, whatever that is) and stresses emphatically that you damn well better not overfill the oil. I have checked to oil a few times and it always seemed to be right where it should be.

I started the bike and never saw an oil pressure warning appear, even briefly. The manual says it should extinguish within 5s.

I would appreciate any comments from more experienced wrenchers about this.

Thanks

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just completed my first oil and filter change on my F3-T. A couple of odd things....

The oil filter was severely deformed, into what was basically a triangular shape. The steel liner inside the filter had compressed down to the point that I could not get the plastic rod with the O rings thru the filter. I had to cut the filter off with shears.

I put the used oil back into qt oil bottles and found that I drained out almost 6 quarts. The shop manual says it should hold 5 qt (5.2 if you change the HCM surface filter, whatever that is) and stresses emphatically that you damn well better not overfill the oil. I have checked to oil a few times and it always seemed to be right where it should be.

I started the bike and never saw an oil pressure warning appear, even briefly. The manual says it should extinguish within 5s.

I would appreciate any comments from more experienced wrenchers about this.

Thanks

This has had been reported in the past a couple of years ago ..... BRP reported changed that type of filter for a stronger one . I have an RT and my oil filter is a paper cylinder that goes into the FIXED housing ...... I'm not familiar with the F-3 oil filter ..... I thought all 1330 engines have the same type ???? ..... Mike

[CapnPete]

Mine is definitely steel mesh on the outside and perforated metal on the inside. To see it crushed like that was- bizarre.

I put in 5 qt of oil, went for the required ride, let it idle for 10min and then checked the oil. Below the min mark. Added 0.5 qt and now seems happy.

[ulflyer]

This has had been reported in the past a couple of years ago ..... BRP reported changed that type of filter for a stronger one . I have an RT and my oil filter is a paper cylinder that goes into the FIXED housing ...... I'm not familiar with the F-3 oil filter ..... I thought all 1330 engines have the same type ???? ..... Mike

Mike: F3's do use the same filter. BRP filters have wire outside and inside. The Hi Flow only has wire inside...at least mine do, but on second thought, they are at least 4 years old so perhaps they are diff now.

[BajaRon]

My guess is that the filter was not positioned properly and did not seat on either the upper or lower (or both) rubber grommets. This made the filter functionally longer than it should be and when buttoned up, the difference had to go somewhere. Which resulted in the crushing that you witnessed. Did either of the grommets look deformed?

It is important to put a film of oil on the new, dry grommets so they slide nicely onto the mating interface.

All 1330 ACE motors take the same engine oil filter. The SE, of course, requires the additional HCM filter at 28k intervals.

The BRP filters have a perforated steel tube on the inside (a common component) and a wire mesh on the outside (not so common). None of the aftermarket filters have the outer wire mesh for one simple reason. It is not needed. It is unnecessary overkill. It doesn't hurt anything. But neither does it offer any advantage. The proof is in the fact that hundreds of thousands of miles are ridden each year on aftermarket filters with, as far as I know, zero issues. I assume that those using the BRP filters can say the same. But I think that helps to make my point.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

My guess is that the filter was not positioned properly and did not seat on either the upper or lower (or both) rubber grommets. This made the filter functionally longer than it should be and when buttoned up, the difference had to go somewhere. Which resulted in the crushing that you witnessed. Did either of the grommets look deformed?

It is important to put a film of oil on the new, dry grommets so they slide nicely onto the mating interface.

All 1330 ACE motors take the same engine oil filter. The SE, of course, requires the additional HCM filter at 28k intervals.

The BRP filters have a perforated steel tube on the inside (a common component) and a wire mesh on the outside (not so common). None of the aftermarket filters have the outer wire mesh for one simple reason. It is not needed. It is unnecessary overkill. It doesn't hurt anything. But neither does it offer any advantage. The proof is in the fact that hundreds of thousands of miles are ridden each year on aftermarket filters with, as far as I know, zero issues. I assume that those using the BRP filters can say the same. But I think that helps to make my point.

Ron with " the filter wasn't in the case properly " ( this also may have been the circumstances in other reports of crushed / collapsed filters ) in the past !!!! ..... the tube ends MUST fit inside the ends of the oil filter element or else the Filter will be too long for the area is has to be in .... and when the end cap is screwed down tight ( to prevent leaking ) it will deform the oil filter ...... Mike

[BajaRon]

Ron with " the filter wasn't in the case properly " ( this also may have been the circumstances in other reports of crushed / collapsed filters ) in the past !!!! ..... the tube ends MUST fit inside the ends of the oil filter element or else the Filter will be too long for the area is has to be in .... and when the end cap is screwed down tight ( to prevent leaking ) it will deform the oil filter ...... Mike

Exactly! Like most things, you just need to take a bit of care to do it right. I would be interested to know if this was done at a dealership. Sometimes they are in just too much of a hurry to get things out the door. I understand the pressure. But it can lead to issues of this nature.

[JP58]

When you install the filter correctly you should be able to screw the housing cap on by hand till the O'ring bottoms out. Then snug it up. If you need a wrench to screw down you probably do not have it seated right.

[Gwolf]

Smear some fresh oil on the seals on the ends of the filter with your finger before dropping the filter in. It will go on down and seat without much pressure if you lube the rubber sealing surfaces.

[CapnPete]

I think you are right on regarding the filter being deformed. I assume this was done at the dealer (a platinum dealer). From the looks of the filter I doubt it was doing much filtering.

Any comments on 5.5 qt of oil? Does everyone use that much and the manual is just wrong? Also what exactly is an HCM filter?

Thanks again

[BajaRon]

I think you are right on regarding the filter being deformed. I assume this was done at the dealer (a platinum dealer). From the looks of the filter I doubt it was doing much filtering.

Any comments on 5.5 qt of oil? Does everyone use that much and the manual is just wrong? Also what exactly is an HCM filter?

Thanks again

I sell a good amount of oil and there seems to be some discrepancies. Most are just fine with the 5 qts. recommended in the owners manual. However, I have some customers who swear they need close to 6 quarts to bring their Spyder to the full mark. I cannot imagine that the difference is in the engine. It has to be elsewhere. Variations in dipstick, reservoir size? I have not been able to pin this down. But up to nearly a full quart difference is a huge amount. I would love to solve this quandry.

[EdMat]

I think you are right on regarding the filter being deformed. I assume this was done at the dealer (a platinum dealer). From the looks of the filter I doubt it was doing much filtering.

Any comments on 5.5 qt of oil? Does everyone use that much and the manual is just wrong? Also what exactly is an HCM filter?

Thanks again

On my 2019 RTL, when hot, dipstick reads full. Drain oil and change filter. Removed oil measured 5.5 quarts using a measuring cup not the bottles. Filled with 5.5 quarts of new oil. Measured when hot, dipstick reads full.

I think you will need the 5.5 quarts you measured................

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I sell a good amount of oil and there seems to be some discrepancies. Most are just fine with the 5 qts. recommended in the owners manual. However, I have some customers who swear they need close to 6 quarts to bring their Spyder to the full mark. I cannot imagine that the difference is in the engine. It has to be elsewhere. Variations in dipstick, reservoir size? I have not been able to pin this down. But up to nearly a full quart difference is a huge amount. I would love to solve this quandry.

Could it be .... improper measuring ... ????? ..... just a thought ...... Mike

[EdMat]

Could it be .... improper measuring ... ????? ..... just a thought ...... Mike

Mike, you know it could never be something that simple.

[ulflyer]

Probably some mechanic with big hands trying to get that filter in. I've only changed my F3T once and getting the filter out and new one in was a bear: so little room up under there to work with. The RT is easy as pie and worth taking off extra panels to get at it.

Did you find it to be a tedious job?

[BajaRon]

Could it be .... improper measuring ... ????? ..... just a thought ...... Mike

Mike! You forget that; 'The Customer Is ALWAYS Right!' But a definite possibility....

[Southpaw58]

I sell a good amount of oil and there seems to be some discrepancies. Most are just fine with the 5 qts. recommended in the owners manual. However, I have some customers who swear they need close to 6 quarts to bring their Spyder to the full mark. I cannot imagine that the difference is in the engine. It has to be elsewhere. Variations in dipstick, reservoir size? I have not been able to pin this down. But up to nearly a full quart difference is a huge amount. I would love to solve this quandry.

With the recommended 5.0 quarts my 2018 F3-T is just into the safe area on the stick. It takes another 0.5 quarts to bring it up to the full mark. Once there however, it stays there until the next oil change. Hope this helps.

Bill

[BajaRon]

With the recommended 5.0 quarts my 2018 F3-T is just into the safe area on the stick. It takes another 0.5 quarts to bring it up to the full mark. Once there however, it stays there until the next oil change. Hope this helps.

Bill

I am glad for this thread because I am getting more and more responses that 5.5 quarts is correct. Still not sure why the owner's manual states 5 quarts for the SE6 and 4.8 quarts for the SM6.

[jcthorne]

Exactly! Like most things, you just need to take a bit of care to do it right. I would be interested to know if this was done at a dealership. Sometimes they are in just too much of a hurry to get things out the door. I understand the pressure. But it can lead to issues of this nature.

Ron, the two I have seen in this condition were factory installed filters being changed for the first time. I think its assembly line assembly errors.

As for the quantity of oil, I can confirm that they do vary. i do a lot of oil changes. When refilling I always pour in a gallon, start the bike and and let it idle a few. Then shut down and measure. Some take a half quart more. Some take 1.5 more but most are at the mid point of the scale at 5 quarts even just like the manual states. But they do vary a lot more than I would have thought. No idea why.

[BajaRon]

Ron, the two I have seen in this condition were factory installed filters being changed for the first time. I think its assembly line assembly errors.

Had not thought of that. Interesting! You'd think that would be a no brainier! But can you imagine standing there all day putting filters in a machine moving down the assembly line! I'm not sure I could do that and remain sane. I am so glad there are some out there who can.

[ulflyer]

Back in '14 or '15 BRP corrected the manual, lowering the amount of oil. Question is, did they ever change the dip stick to compensate for this lower amount? My memory is not so good these days, but I'm thinking that half way between add/full was the correct amount after that change.

I recently changed mine and forgetting the above, put in 5 qts. After checking it twice after a ride with it showing over the top, I extracted a full pint and half which took it down below the full mark.

[CapnPete]

Interesting responses!

I bought the BRP oil change kit online which actually comes with 5 qt bottles and one 0.5 qt bottle of oil. Took all of them to put the oil right in the middle of the range. I am going to recheck tomorrow when I ride it again....

[BajaRon]

Back in '14 or '15 BRP corrected the manual, lowering the amount of oil. Question is, did they ever change the dip stick to compensate for this lower amount? My memory is not so good these days, but I'm thinking that half way between add/full was the correct amount after that change.

I recently changed mine and forgetting the above, put in 5 qts. After checking it twice after a ride with it showing over the top, I extracted a full pint and half which took it down below the full mark.

Thanks for throwing a wrench into the works! We were building a 5.5 quart consensus here!! (Just Kidding)

It has really gotten impossible to recommend a quantity of oil for customers with the 1330 motor. If I recommend 5 quarts, it may not be enough. If I recommend 6, they may not need that extra quart. People call me for answers. And I love to give out good advise. But sometimes, it's just not possible.

[JayBros]

BRP did not change the dipstick; it was not necessary to do so. Once they got the 5.0 qt initial fill set it put the dip stick level right at the Min bulge on the dipstick. To that 5.0 qt I've been adding an additional 6 oz which puts the level on my dipstick exactly midway between the Min and Max marks. I then run it 9,300 miles and repeat. I choose not to try to get it any fuller than midway. Been doing it that way for 37K miles. Your final amount may vary.