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  1. #1
    Very Active Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Default Can RPMs indicate CVT belt wear???

    Went to Mt Charleston this morning with Vrod friend.
    Did not feel cool until 7000 feet, before 8 AM.
    Going over Deer Creek Road, from Lee Canyon to Kyle Canyon, it was friend's turn to lead.
    We were at a leisurely pace and I decided to compare RPMs versus speed.

    Up a moderate grade, throttle steady, under load, but not accelerating, there seemed to be a consistent correlation between RPMs and speed between 40 - 50 MPH, especially 45 - 50 MPH.

    For example 44 MPH would read 4400 (sometimes 4500 RPM). Above a certain RPM, it updates only in hundreds.

    Chris56 commented, in another thread, that 108 MPH was 8250 RPM, whereas mine at 107 MPH reads 8000 RPM and a soft rev limiter intervenes.

    I asked him in that thread how many miles/kilometers on his CVT belt.

    My thinking is that if he is running 250 RPM more for only 1 MPH more, his belt width may have worn, causing the belt to rider lower between the primary clutch sheaves for the same engine RPM.

    At 3000 miles (almost 3 months), my 2020 is 1/4 to the recommended belt change interval of 12,000 miles. Since most of my riding is distance, I am hoping to go longer than that.

    So, I am wondering if, under the same conditions (perhaps altitude, ambient temperature included), if the RPM display is reading higher RPMs for the same speed, will that give me some indication of belt wear? The 2019 owner's manual indicates 3 mm wear will affect performance.

    Preliminary research indicates a BRP 417 300 571 belt.

    https://shop.sknorthwest.com/fiche_s...ection=3011135

    If that is correct, it is a VERY durable belt per this link:

    https://www.ibackshift.com/article/belt-143.asp

    See also PAC bulletin 2019-7 improved belt

    https://www.ski-doo.com/content/ski-...t-updates.html

    https://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic...elt-417300571/

    Pending verification by a Ryker owner with a service manual, belt specs are:

    38.3 mm wide (1.507")
    35.3 mm limit (1.389") based upon owner's manual of 3 mm max wear

    This corresponds to the post by RykerUSA, reporting a belt change at 11,000 miles, with a width of 1.44" within spec.
    23 Moto Guzzi V7-850 SE 23 Yamaha XT250 18 Yamaha Bolt R-Spec 22 Triumph Street Twin 20 CanAM Ryker 900 14 Honda CB1100 18 Yamaha XT250 16 Moto Guzzi V7 II 17 Yamaha TW200 12 Triumph Bonneville 02 Sportster 1200 Sport 03 Sportster 883 76 Honda CB750F 75 Honda CB360 70 Yamaha CT1 72 Yamaha CT2 72 Yamaha AT2/CT2 70 Honda SL350 70 Honda CL350 67 Honda CL160 67 Honda CB160 62 Honda CA110
    2020 900 , NGK 4218 iridium CR8EIX Matte black

  2. #2
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    While that sort of 'small variation' in revs vs road speed could possibly be a sign of belt slippage, I'd be looking carefully at things like different tire sizes and/or different tire pressures before getting too worried!! Heck, even the 'actual' differences in the tire pressure displayed by two supposedly identical and generally considered 'reasonable accurate' tire pressure gauges could account for that small a difference in indicated revs/road speed!!

    A difference in tire pressure of just 2psi can mean maybe a 2% variation in revs per mile from a given tire, and the difference between 8250 rpm and 8000 rpm isn't too far off that; and the difference between an indicated 108 MPH and an indicated 107 MPH is well within that range AND it could also simply be the differences in the accuracy of the measuring/display devices between the two machines!! Cos we all know (or should by now?! ) that no two 'non-calibrated' speedo's are really all that likely to read identical speeds anyway, and ALL motor vehicle manufacturers install speedo's with built in 'over-optomistic' read errors of 'anything up to 10%', with most of those read errors varying from speedo to speedo anywhere within that +10% range even if the vehicle is running OE spec tires at truly identical pressures; but even allowing for minor variations there, the speedo's will (no longer) ever vary into the 'under-reading' range!!

    So there's MORE than enough variation built into the manufacture and specification of each machine and its installed instruments to account for those perceived differences; PLUS there's even MORE scope to account for those variations in any tire pressure differences, AND then there's still the significant scope for variation in the actual physical diferences between tires, even if you WERE both running OE Spec Kendas, but I strongly suspect you aren't!! I believe Chris is already on an a/mkt tire, and even if it does have the same 'nominal size' printed on its sidewall, there's very little likelihood that the number of revs per mile delivered by your tire exactly matches the number of revs per mile required by his!!

    All of which is why we use a whole range of physical (ie wheels & tape measures etc), Electronic, Laser, Doppler, and all sorts of other 'non OEM vehicle fitted' speed and distance measuring devices (amongst all the other things measured) while testing vehicles and/or tires - and it's all equipment that is regularly and exhaustively tested and calibrated to ensure that we are comparing speed and distances et al based upon comparible measurement data, rather than just using whatever we read off the OE fitted and notoriously 'purposefully inaccurate' installed speedo, tacho , and odometer readings! And all that boils down to mean that the differences you are concerned about comparing are most likely simply the result of the inaccuracies and differences in the set-up and specs of the different machines and their installed tires and instruments!! The variations inherent in that lot could well mean that both machines are ACTUALLY doing EXACTLY the same revs at EXACTLY the same speeds when all else is equal.... or maybe not?! But you are never going to know for sure unless you eliminate all the inaccuracies and variables!

    So once again, Ryde More, Worry Less sounds like a good idea!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-31-2020 at 07:11 PM.
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    Ryde More, Worry Less!

  3. #3
    Very Active Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Peter, you are correct about potential differences between Chris's Rally and my 900 base.

    However, it simply was his mention of speed and RPMs that prompted my contemplation:

    "So, I am wondering if, under the same conditions, if the RPM display is reading higher RPMs for the same speed, will that give me some indication of belt wear?"

    So, disregarding Chris' experience, if it takes more RPMs, for the same speed, under the same conditions [for my Ryker], perhaps that is an indication of belt wear.

    Expect that I will head up Deer Creek Road about 9,000 miles from now...

    Maybe Can-Am, in future model years, will provide a belt inspection window with width indicator marks!

    In the meantime, I'm looking for some empirical data to judge pulling the CVT cover, rather than an arbitrary 12,000 miles.

    If I take the time to inspect, I might as well spend $200 and replace the belt; most likely with a factory belt.
    23 Moto Guzzi V7-850 SE 23 Yamaha XT250 18 Yamaha Bolt R-Spec 22 Triumph Street Twin 20 CanAM Ryker 900 14 Honda CB1100 18 Yamaha XT250 16 Moto Guzzi V7 II 17 Yamaha TW200 12 Triumph Bonneville 02 Sportster 1200 Sport 03 Sportster 883 76 Honda CB750F 75 Honda CB360 70 Yamaha CT1 72 Yamaha CT2 72 Yamaha AT2/CT2 70 Honda SL350 70 Honda CL350 67 Honda CL160 67 Honda CB160 62 Honda CA110
    2020 900 , NGK 4218 iridium CR8EIX Matte black

  4. #4
    Very Active Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Since RykerUSA reported a width of 1.44" (36.57 mm) at 11,000 miles, that is a width reduction to 95.48% (.9548*38.3=36.57).
    Or a reduction of 4.52%
    With a minimum width of 35.3, that would be a maximum width reduction to 92.17% (.9217*38.3=35.3) before performance may be expected.
    Or a reduction of 7.83%

    In the case of RykerUSA, his belt was replaced at 57.7% of maximum wear.

    So, if RykerUSA's ridiing style continued, his CVT belt could be expected to go up to 19,000 miles, unless heat deterioration compounds with age.

    (57.7% is to 100% as 11,000 miles is to x miles...solve for X)

    On that basis, until I learn more, I may plan to check and replace the CVT belt later than 12,000 miles and an increase of RPMs, at same speed and conditions may be helpful.

    Meanwhile, I am only thinking out loud, so additional thoughts encourged.
    23 Moto Guzzi V7-850 SE 23 Yamaha XT250 18 Yamaha Bolt R-Spec 22 Triumph Street Twin 20 CanAM Ryker 900 14 Honda CB1100 18 Yamaha XT250 16 Moto Guzzi V7 II 17 Yamaha TW200 12 Triumph Bonneville 02 Sportster 1200 Sport 03 Sportster 883 76 Honda CB750F 75 Honda CB360 70 Yamaha CT1 72 Yamaha CT2 72 Yamaha AT2/CT2 70 Honda SL350 70 Honda CL350 67 Honda CL160 67 Honda CB160 62 Honda CA110
    2020 900 , NGK 4218 iridium CR8EIX Matte black

  5. #5
    Very Active Member chris56's Avatar
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    I now have 13.000 miles and a new belt, I use the old one as a spare it is still OK and could work for another 5.000 miles ..
    When I got the Ryker (after 10 years on Spyders) someone told me, I should always warm-up the belt before I try a burnout or so.. we use her as a touring machine here in the Alps, or along the Italian coast without any problems !
    Its a standard 900, on the back a Toyo T1R tire (we have a lot of rain in this area !) and a Can-am delux fairing which helps a little with a better aerodynamic on higher speeds.

    The electronic limiter is 8.240 Rpms, but the speed on this Rpms is variable, 103 - 108 miles per Hour ( 160 Kilometers are around 100 Miles) ..
    On the end of this clip I made a short test - full trottle - solo on the "Autobahn" - she is not built for things like that !!! normally we ride maximum 80 miles/hour 2up ..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROzhmrYVoqQ
    Outlander fairing - Fox-shock - BajaRon Swaybar - Hankook tire/ back - 165/50 Imperial tires front & longer front shocks - GIVI Topase - Shad sidecases -heated grips - new seats

  6. #6
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    SportsterDoc the Service Manual states the service limit is 36.7mm 1.445in. I did not find new specs.

  7. #7
    Very Active Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakotaz View Post
    SportsterDoc the Service Manual states the service limit is 36.7mm 1.445in. I did not find new specs.
    Thank you much

    I am trying to correlate that with the owner's manual advising 3 mm wear allowed and specs I have found for a new factory belt.

    If page 123 of the 2019 and 2020 owner's manual is correct, adding 3 mm to 36.7 would be 39.7 new.

    Need to do more research on original belt width.

    Finding info for Can-Am, especially a new product, is certainly not like researching H-D or Honda!
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    23 Moto Guzzi V7-850 SE 23 Yamaha XT250 18 Yamaha Bolt R-Spec 22 Triumph Street Twin 20 CanAM Ryker 900 14 Honda CB1100 18 Yamaha XT250 16 Moto Guzzi V7 II 17 Yamaha TW200 12 Triumph Bonneville 02 Sportster 1200 Sport 03 Sportster 883 76 Honda CB750F 75 Honda CB360 70 Yamaha CT1 72 Yamaha CT2 72 Yamaha AT2/CT2 70 Honda SL350 70 Honda CL350 67 Honda CL160 67 Honda CB160 62 Honda CA110
    2020 900 , NGK 4218 iridium CR8EIX Matte black

  8. #8
    Active Member redrazor's Avatar
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    So once again, Ryde More, Worry Less sounds like a good idea! [/QUOTE]

    Seems to me that there are a lot of folks that spend way too much time trying to separate the fly sh-t out of the pepper!
    Last edited by redrazor; 08-01-2020 at 01:37 PM. Reason: remove unnecessary words

  9. #9
    Very Active Member SportsterDoc's Avatar
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    If you ride a Ryker and would prefer to arbitrarily replace the CVT belt at 12,000 miles or ride until it breaks, that is your choice.
    Thinking that 12,000 miles is likely too early, I was searching for some consideration other than mileage...without removing the CVT cover and measuring.

    That being said, I have nothing further to contribute to this forum.
    23 Moto Guzzi V7-850 SE 23 Yamaha XT250 18 Yamaha Bolt R-Spec 22 Triumph Street Twin 20 CanAM Ryker 900 14 Honda CB1100 18 Yamaha XT250 16 Moto Guzzi V7 II 17 Yamaha TW200 12 Triumph Bonneville 02 Sportster 1200 Sport 03 Sportster 883 76 Honda CB750F 75 Honda CB360 70 Yamaha CT1 72 Yamaha CT2 72 Yamaha AT2/CT2 70 Honda SL350 70 Honda CL350 67 Honda CL160 67 Honda CB160 62 Honda CA110
    2020 900 , NGK 4218 iridium CR8EIX Matte black

  10. #10
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    If it’s worth anything, I had the trans light turn on at 11k, I waited another 1200 miles and finally had dealer change the belt. The overall engagement and acceleration is completely different, I’m certain my belt was pretty worn, because the drive ability is so much better than before, way less clunky, smooth delivery all the way.

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