Suggest Some Mods/Add-Ons to Maximize Ride Smoothness on F3-T?

[newbert]

In another thread, I described my back problems (spondylolisthesis) which have recently prevented me from ryding. I'm thinking ahead to when I can ryde again (hopefully sooner than later), and will want to remain pain-free at that point. That means maximizing an upright seated position on my F3-T, with no hunching over.

So with that introduction, what specific modifications and/or add-ons for the F3-T would help attain that riding position and also smooth the ryde? By that, I don't mean engine smoothing but "maximum absorption of bumps in the road". (For the moment, don't consider budget)

I'm figuring maybe new shocks and perhaps something to extend the handlebars even farther than my existing short-reach bars (if such an animal exists)? Adding air to the rear shock absorber pre-load is, of course, a no brainer. And what about tires? (I still have the OEM tires on the front and an Altimax on the rear.) I also already have a BRP driver backrest, Russell Day Long Seat, and Baja Ron Swaybar.

So, what else? Right now, this is a just thought exercise, so I'm open to any and all ideas. But it just might eventually come down to making the actual purchases and getting it installed. (BTW - I'm not a DIYer, so any offered suggestions would need to be something that my dealer would be willing to install.

Any and all ideas welcomed!

Thanks!
Bert

[Ex-Rocket]

I have heard good things from others about the helibars. They have a lot of adjustment to them to suit any rider.

[CopperSpyder]

x2 on the Helibars. I don't think there is another handle bar around with as much adjustment. Look around for a good comfortable brace that you can wear when riding, that can help also.

[Peter Aawen]

Gotta agree about the Heli-bars! But when it comes to suspension, you want to improve your suspension's 'compliance' (reciprocal of 'stiffness') so 'adding air to the air bag IS NOT necessarily what you want to do!! That could be the worst possible thing to do for your back....

Altho the air bag is mainly used to maintain ride height & to reduce the likelihood of bottoming your suspension out, it does have some degree of involvement in how 'hard' the suspension is; so once the ride height is set correctly, adding any more air than the minimum necessary will be making your ride harder and more jarring!! Is that really what you want to do??

I'd think your best course of action (ignoring budget for now) would be to upgrade the rear suspension to minimise the air bag's involvement (check out h0gr1der's suspension thread! ) or remove the need for the air bag completely (talk to a suspension/shock tuner like M2Shocks ) OR, go the other way completely, and toss the coil spring entirely, upgrading the air bag to take the coil's place in carrying the load of you & the Spyder gently while still maintaining the ride height (you'd still need good shock absorbers tho! ) Sorry, but atm I can't recall the mob who've already done this for Spyders....

The other thing to bear in mind is that your tires are an important and integral part of the suspension & critical to providing you/your Spyder with a smooth ryde! Low profile tires and high pressures are going to be your greatest enemy!! The OE Spec Kendas are lightly constructed with relatively low profiles and so they NEED more air pressure in them simply to carry the load than would a stronger sidewalled higher profile tire!! So even without considering their 'lesser performance' & potential for inherent problems, you should be thinking about tossing the Kendas up front ASAP and getting something better suited to your needs - ideally something that your suspension tuner can work with to improve your suspension's compliance even more! And while the Altimax is generally a great choice for the rear, what size is it?? You might want to consider going a bit narrower in tread width with a corresponding increase in profile so that you can run a lower pressure back there too; but that does beg the question... what air pressures are you currently running now? (And it warrants a warning too - DO NOT vary the pressure in your front Kendas from the Spyder's tire placard recommendation - those OE Spec Kendas NEED all the air they can get/safely run to maintain their structural integrity! )

I would suggest you might want to consider running quality auto tires all round, maybe a 'sport/touring' 175/60R15 tire at saaay, 16 psi up front; with a similar 'sport/touring' or possibly a 'luxury/performance' tire in a 205/65R15 size, also at about 16 psi on the rear - but you'd really need to confirm those pressures are safe for the load they are carrying before committing to that!! You can do a rough calculation to work out the optimal pressure for your tires if you know the max load & max pressure info printed on the sidewall and the weight of your loaded Spyder at each tire, or at least at the front and the back. If you want more info on that rough calc, you'd need to get me/tell us all that info. That said, as a very rough indication and something that may not necessarily apply to anyone else/their application, I've tested a number of auto tires on Spyders (RT's & F3's) - various brands & tread patterns, and as BK911 has also stated, I haven't yet met an auto tire that actually fits on these machines that needs more than a max of 18 psi in it to do the job, front or rear! Some well constructed auto tires even work best a touch lower, altho while there's been tires that 'worked' as low as 8psi, I wouldn't recommend anyone running any less than say, 14 psi in them for 'normal road use', and at least a couple of pounds more if you plan on working them hard on the highway/thru the twisties!

But as a final comment Bert, did you take an RT for an extended ryde before buying an F3?!? I don't have spondylolisthesis, but I do have the lingering & permanently damaging effects of a number of 'traumatic injuries' to my back et al; and I simply can not ride for long on ANY machine like the F3 that puts my feet forward in the 'birthing position' - it's just WAAAYYY too painful because ALL of the impacts & shock loads from uneven or poorly maintained road surfaces have nowhere to go but straight into and up/down my spine!! At least on an RT I can sometimes use my legs to support & cushion some of the larger shock loads; and according to ALL of my surgeons & physical therapists etc, the more upright ryding position is the least damaging and more natural 'load carrying' & 'shock load withstanding' position for the human spine! So while it might be a ryding position you've become used to, maybe an F3 isn't really the ideal choice of ryde for your spine??

Sorry 'bout the epic tome..... but you did ask!

[Peteoz]

Altho the air bag is mainly used to maintain ride height & to reduce the likelihood of bottoming your suspension out
:

Peter, just as an aside - that may be the theory, but in reality, I don’t believe that actually occurs. I tried my airbag at 80psi, 60psi, 40psi, 20psi, and 5psi. The suspension bottomed out at every setting, and that’s riding solo. (albeit 300lbs solo, but still well within load limits). It wasn’t until I installed the Wilbers that the rear became comfortable. (Both the F3 rear and MY rear )

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

Yeah, I think that may have something to do with you/your size Pete, and where your (large-ish ) body/frame puts the load/leverage onto & into your Spyder's suspension.

The design concept on these machines is really quite brilliant (altho the execution/delivery might be somewhat lacking in a few places! ) Our Spyders & Rykers are pretty smart in the way the Ryder's weight is 'cantilevered' out on the frame to fairly evenly spread the load across the front & rear tires; but with your weight being relatively further back on the seat that's cantilevered out over the swingarm & so supported mainly by the shock/coil & air bag, fitting a better coil, one that was up to the load being imposed that far back, was pretty much essential!!

For most Ryders, even those with a pillion, there's more of the load being carried directly over or even in front of the shock & air bag mounting points, so the suspension & air bag does work largely to maintain the ryde height as discussed previously; and for most, the air bag really only starts 'carrying weight' (rather than simply maintaining ryde height) if they've got a pillion aboard - it's usually only you long limbed & heavy blokes who sit your weight far enough back who overcome that & get to need the air bag to hold your weight off the bump stops all the time! And what you've said in your post above actually supports that - you needed more air pressure in the bag AND/OR more shock/coil capacity than the standard suspension could provide at any pressure; while for most, the standard suspension alone (without any air bag pressure) is at least adequate for a solo ryder, even if it might need the air bag inflated/more air to keep the seat's underside off the top of the tire whenever they carry a pillion! So you fitting the Wilbur shock & coil, ie, a unit that DOES have the capacity to carry the loads you impose upon your Spyder back that far, really just confirms what I said earlier...

All up, the standard suspension on our Spyders is really only 'adequate', and as I said earlier, for most solo ryders, the air bag is simply maintaining ryde height & reducing the propensity for bottoming out the suspension..... so anyone who regularly carries a pillion AND a load may well need to upgrade the suspension &/or air bag; but since you longer/larger ryders are putting a lot of your weight waaay back there in a similar manner to others loaded & carrying a pillion, you will almost certainly need to do the same.... or maybe you could move the front pegs/footplates forwards far enough that they are on top of or possibly even ahead of the upper front suspension arms?? That'd almost certainly bring your weight forward enough to lessen the chance of bottoming out the rear suspension! Not so sure about the FRONT suspension being up to carrying the load that far forward without bottoming out or collapsing tho?? And that's not really picking on your weight or size, Pete, it's more a reflection on the barely adequate 'delivery & execution' of BRP's quite smart & elegant frame & suspension design!

[newbert]

O.P. Here ..... Interesting discussion. Keep it coming, please.

A bit more info about me. FWIW, I'm 5'7", 205-210 lbs and always ride alone. Before purchasing my F3-T, I tried an RT and found that my legs were uncomfortably "splayed out" ("the birthing position") even more than on the F3! Now, a ryker is much narrower than either the F3 or RT, which would be better for my comfort, but my CanAm dealer told me that Rykers don't absorb dips in the roadways very well at all - Is that true?

Thanks for the excellent discussion so far!

Bert