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  1. #1
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    Default 2019 RT Ltd - Power Decrease at Higher Rpms

    I traded in a 2016 RT for a left over 2019 RT Limited this spring. Having babied it through the break in, I started running it harder after it had about 1500 miles on it (now almost 2000 miles) and realized something was wrong. Despite what ever gear I am in, the engine seems to pull strongly up to about 3500 rpm and then its power level really drops off, and it feels as though it is being starved for air or fuel and will not continue up through what should be its power band.

    I’ve even been on interstate hwy, driving 70 and opened the throttle to pass a car. It would not accelerate. So, I shifted down to 5th and it would still not accelerate. Same in 4th (undoubtedly due to it getting further into its “no power zone”).

    Bike has been back to the dealer once, and the service mgr. rode it, came back, and said it should have pulled up to about 100 mph based on throttle position, but just would not climb in rpm’s. They claimed to have then updated 5 codes, but it did not help problem. Per the dealer, the next step in diagnosing is replacing plugs, which are on back order (now for over 1 week).

    Having had the 2016 I am very familiar with how the 1330 engine should run. Again, this 2019 seems to run and pull nicely up to slightly over 3000 rpm. So, I can ride it for most of the highway driving we do here in Iowa. But, in my opinion, it would be unsafe (due to power deficiency) at interstate speeds.

    Any recommendations?

  2. #2
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    I've got a 2018 RTL and have found the same thing. I figured it was normal. Up to about 3500 rpms, it pulls pretty hard then dies off until I hit about 4500+ rpms when it starts to pull harder again. When I'm on winding back roads (which is most of the time), I just keep it a gear lower and keep the rpms up. FWIW, I've got just over 2k miles on it. It sort of disappointed me compared to my last (2 wheeled) bikes. (2012 Victory Vision and 2014 Kawasaki Nomad) No matter what rpms I was at (relatively speaking), if I rolled on the thottle to pass, I'd better be hanging on. Not so much on the Spyder.

  3. #3
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    Do you have it in ECO mode?

  4. #4
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    If you look at the power/torque graph for the 1330 motor, it shows exactly that 'flattening of the curve' from something a bit over 3,000 rpm to getting up close to 4,500 rpm, so it isn't at all surprising you might notice it - but the torque on tap is still pretty good the whole way!! So even tho your 2019 RT might be suffering a little because you 'babied' it thru its 'break in' (read 'babying a new motor = tried to kill it with kindness' and pretty much exactly the wrong thing to do!! ) it still shouldn't be too much of a slouch, even if the motor is inherently just a little lazy!!

    That said, the ECU Upgrade that Jase from ECU Xtreme can do for them really wakes up these lazy 1330 motors altho IMHO they are never going to be quite so peppy, responsive, & exciting to ride as a 998 V-twin, let alone an ECU Xtreme Upgraded V-twin!

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  5. #5
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    It performs as I described even when not in ECO mode.

  6. #6
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    That engine should pull like a horse all the way to the red line.

    Accelerator Control.jpg
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  7. #7
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    Peter touched on it, I'll say it bluntly: "babying" your new engine killed it. :dunno:

    Without proper loading on the rings during the (very short) break-in period, they will not seat properly. Contrary to OLD 'wisdom', it has been found that engine break-in is best accomplished during the first 10-15 miles. While the NEW engine is warming up, run it gently to make sure everything is moving OK. Once it is warm, give it about half throttle, run it up to about half of redline. Roll off the throttle, let it slow down using engine braking, which loads the other side of the rings. Give it another few blasts up to half redline, followed by coasting time. These runs can be done in third or fourth gears, which will extend the time under load, but obviously can't go all the way to half redline, due to speed. Allow the engine to cool overnight, then do it again the next day.

    At the end of the second session, it might be a good idea to change the oil to get rid of all the metal particles that might have been scraped off the cylinder walls. No sense in leaving them there for the next several hundred miles. Change now, change again in several hundred miles, then follow whatever schedule you choose.

    Sounds radical, but materials, machining and manufacturing techniques are so much better than they used to be, the long time of "running gently" is no longer necessary.

    .
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  8. #8
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBros View Post
    That engine should pull like a horse all the way to the red line.

    Accelerator Control.jpg
    While it's a pretty good graph, that particular graph is actually the throttle response/% opening vs throttle input graph Jay, comparing the Stock/normal throttle opening % response to the downgraded opening response once Eco Mode is selected, & has nothing really to do with either power or torque!

    The torque graph for the 1330 starts out climbing pretty well from idle then levels off & plateaus for a bit between 3 & 4,500 ish rpm, before once again climbing fairly quickly up to peak torque at a bit over 5,000 rpm & then showing a fairly slow & gradual decline that's just off level until you get close to the red line, when it drops off rapidly as you reach it! The torque curve for the 1330's is almost a 'one-hump camel back' profile; as opposed to the nothing much at all from idle until about 3200 rpm on the V-twin, then a rapid & steep climb (like you've got on the graph above) pulling hard all the way to peak at about 8,600/the red line & then an almost instant drop off.... or an even better/taller/steeper & higher line with the ECU Upgraded! and yet the ECU Upgraded improved V-twin performance can still be kept within the 'safe & reliable parameters' for the same Rotax V-twins with their stock tunes when used in other applications!

    An ECU Upgrade for the 1330's can pretty much completely remove the first flat spot/plateau out of their torque curve, giving you a steadier & more progressive climb with no hesitations, before basically holding it's (higher) own all the way to the red line too!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-08-2020 at 01:58 AM.
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  9. #9
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    I looked at the torque graph too and saw how it drops off beginning at about five grand but stuck in the acceleration control graph based on my experience with my Spyder. IMO accelerator control is the thing that gives me the best ability to do what I want quickly, even if I have to kick it down a gear or two to execute the maneuver I want, generally a passing one. Now that the bike is past its B.E.S.T. extended warranty expiration I occasionally kick around in my head popping for the ECU upgrade but I can still get in over my head with it stock if I don't control that hooligan impulse that lives in me.
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  10. #10
    Very Active Member JP58's Avatar
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    Break in period. Ride it like you stole it. No problems here after 14,000 miles.
    2018 F3 Limited , Oxford Blue

  11. #11
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    I do appreciate all the feedback so far, but I truly do believe this is a more serious problem that just the result of an easy break-in or the ECU needing an aftermarket upgrade. Please remember I had 3 years of riding experience on a new 2016 RT prior to this 2019. I may have overstated when I said I "babied" it during break in. These two bikes were broken in in approximately the same manner, and there is no question, the 2016 bone stock would eat this 2019 alive - NOT EVEN CLOSE!

    From what I have now driven the 2019, I would say it would likely be impossible to get the engine to even approach the red line rpm in any gear. And a number of times I have been driving at approx 3200 rpm, and it won't accelerate in 6th, and as I shift down into 5th and then 4th and give it additional throttle, it still won't accelerate.

    The dealer says they no have the plugs to move ahead. I'm not optimistic, but hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised!

    Again, thank you!

  12. #12
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpydeyCR View Post
    I do appreciate all the feedback so far, but I truly do believe this is a more serious problem that just the result of an easy break-in or the ECU needing an aftermarket upgrade. Please remember I had 3 years of riding experience on a new 2016 RT prior to this 2019. I may have overstated when I said I "babied" it during break in. These two bikes were broken in in approximately the same manner, and there is no question, the 2016 bone stock would eat this 2019 alive - NOT EVEN CLOSE!

    From what I have now driven the 2019, I would say it would likely be impossible to get the engine to even approach the red line rpm in any gear. And a number of times I have been driving at approx 3200 rpm, and it won't accelerate in 6th, and as I shift down into 5th and then 4th and give it additional throttle, it still won't accelerate.

    The dealer says they no have the plugs to move ahead. I'm not optimistic, but hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised!

    Again, thank you!
    I have serious doubts it's the PLUGS ..... go to the dealer and see if they have another 2019 .... and compare ..... BRO computers can have lots of info in them .... but you need someone who can get the stored info out .... I went an entire year having the dealer tell me " they can't find the problem " ..... Then at Spyderfest 14 a BRP Tech found 249 old codes .... went home and the dealer Tech contacted the BRP Tech " Danny " and my issue got resolved ..... Mike

  13. #13
    Very Active Member KX5062's Avatar
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    Just spitballing, but have the dealer check the battery (load test). The electrical needs of the bike come from the battery and not the engine. The "alternator" supplies the electricity to the battery and then the battery distributes the electricity to the engine and accessories. A bad battery will cause weird running issues.
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  14. #14
    Very Active Member Navydad's Avatar
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    As you stated in your post the bike seems to be starving for fuel or air. I have seen this issue twice, but it was on older bikes so it may not apply. On those bikes the air intake was partially blocked once by a magazine the guy had stuck under the seat and over the air filter intake the second time a mouse had built it's nest in the air intake. Both bikes ran well as long as there wasn't much demand for throttle. When the throttle was cranked quickly or the revs starting building the bikes would fall flat because they weren't getting the needed air. Although these new bikes are controlled by computers and sensors they still need fuel, air, and spark just like the old days. One other thing I thought of is the ignition timing. This too is controlled by the computer, but if for some reason the timing is not being advanced or retarded the engine is not going to perform as it should. Those are the first two things I would look at based on your description of events. Just for a reference my 2015 RT pulls like a train all the way to the rev limiter in the first four gears. Haven't tried it that far in fifth, but it was still pulling hard when I backed off. Good luck with your search for a resolution.
    2015 RT , Black

  15. #15
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    You still have time on your original factory warranty and you know how the '19 does not compare to your '16. Get that Spyder to a BRP dealer and ask them to open a case with BRP to get the darn thing fixed on their nickel. Ask them for a loaner while they repair yours. If the dealership will not open a case, write BRPCare@brp.com giving them all the information you have given us and ask them to open a case and have a dealership fix it. There's no reason to put up with a poorly running machine.
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  16. #16
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    Just a quick update on this problem. The dealer yesterday installed the new spark plugs and verified that there was no blockage in the air intake system. When I talked to the service manager today I said I assume there was no improvement. He said he test rode the Spyder after this was done and it seemed to run a bit better for a couple miles and then returned to the previous "underpower at higher rpm" behavior.

    He said he placed a call in to BRP for advice, but it could be a day or two till he hears back. I hope BRP is responsive and their advice ultimately is helpful. I will post any new developements as it may be helpful to others some time in the future.

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    Could it be the issue some have had where the cams are not aligned and out by a tooth?
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  18. #18
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpydeyCR View Post
    ...He said he placed a call in to BRP for advice, but it could be a day or two till he hears back. I hope BRP is responsive and their advice ultimately is helpful. I will post any new developments as it may be helpful to others some time in the future.
    Push the dealership to have BRP officially open a case. That puts the onus on BRP to solve the problem.
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
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