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  1. #1
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    Default F3 total failure

    Well last night, my F3 totally let me down. This F3 has had consistent issues since new and has been in the shop several times for repairing the same thing. A check engine light would come on (P0172) and it pointed to a purge valve issue that has now been replaced twice. The check engine light is back on now along with other things after a ride last night. BTW-the last time it came back from the shop, it went into limp home mode after driving it about 500 feet after the delivery driver dropped it off. A really bad omen.

    Fast forward to last night. On Friday, I picked up my new Ducati V4S Streetfighter and wanted to get some miles on it. It requires 621 miles (1000 KM) of break in and an oil change before the full power of the engine is available. So a buddy and I decided to get those miles on it and as a chase bike, we took my F3 to carry extra stuff and as a backup if something went wrong with the new Ducati.

    After a short stop, with everything that could go wrong without something major falling off, the Spyder came unglued. I got on the Spyder, turned on the key and started the engine. When I put it in gear I got a warning about transmission control failure on the display (SE6) and it actually hadn't gone into gear. I shut off the engine, and tried to re-start it. This time the engine would start but immediately stall when you released the start button. After a couple off attempts, I was able to get the engine to stay running by holding the start button in and revving it up with the starter engaged. At this point I was able to get the transmission into reverse and back up. However I noticed that I had no power steering and I had a red battery warning light on indication that the battery wasn't charging. Looking at the headlight at idle and then revving the engine, it was obvious as the headlight was getting brighter when revved it up so it was charging, it just didn't think it was. So I took it around the block. It also appeared that I had no ABS and/or stability systems but I had no warning lights about them either. When I shifted to second gear, the vehicle slowed down and didn't get throttle back until 24 MPH when it went into limp home mode. When I got back in the driveway, I checked for active codes and there were 10 listed. The only code that wasn't there was my usual P0172. The following codes were there: U3E0C, U0100, P0562, U9001, U0126, C0051, U1150, C1290, U0122 and U1031. I was able to clear the codes and got a green check mark saying no active codes. The vehicle was then drivable in a normal manner and I drove it 50 more miles last night. The check engine light was still on but other than that, there were no issues. This morning I was able to start it with no problems but now in addition to the check engine light, the battery warning light is on. So it is now parked until the dealer can pick it up.

    This Spyder has less than 1500 total miles on it. It was a demo that had 300 miles on it when I picked it up. This will be the forth time it has been in the shop and I am getting tired of it. The last time it was in the shop they ran it into something and wiped out the front fender that took additional time to get it back. The failures appear to my untrained eye as a massive failure in the CAN communication system as all the operational failures were in modules that require communication with each other to function. I told them to keep it until they fix it properly and need to get BRP directly involved in the troubleshooting. I also told them if it ever has this kind of failure in the future they can have it back forever and we can settle out the financial mess later. I am not going to own something that is so unreliable that it will put me in the poorhouse in repairs after the factory warranty expires. I know it's buyer beware but the vehicle should still be roadworthy and to be roadworthy means that it isn't going to strand you along the side of that road.

    Any thoughts on this or if anyone ever experienced this would be helpful. It looks like this kind of total failure is uncommon but it has happened here.

  2. #2
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    You may have got one of the proverbial lemons that can happen with any brand of motor vehicle.

    Or, do you possibly have battery issues? On a new battery, it can be something as simple as loose connections or not properly charged by the dealer.

    Please keep us posted.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium). 6 Spyders, 11 years, 167,000 miles


  3. #3
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    HAve them contact BRP for help on your Spyder or get you a new one. Check on Lemon laws for your state to and keep all records.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Thanks for the quick replies. First, thanks for the thoughts about the battery. It has no problem turning over the engine and has a battery tender attached to it when it is parked. I did look at the terminals after your post and they are clean and tight. On the lemon law thing, Florida specifically excludes "motorcycles" from the lemon law statute--the motorcycle manufacturers must have strong representation in the state house. The strange thing about this is the Spyder was/is a replacement for the last new motorcycle that I purchased. I have owned more than two dozen motorcycles in my lifetime and currently 5 including the Spyder and never had any abnormal issues with any of them until the one prior to the Spyder. That one was so bad that the dealer and the manufacturer couldn't repair it. They bought it back, no questions asked and I would have some great stories to tell about it. However, I cannot even say who made it or what happened to it as I had to sign a NDA to get my check. I makes you think that I complain about little things and want my money back but it is not the case. I am 72 years old and the last motorcycle (which I really enjoyed) is the only thing that I ever returned for refund in my life. It was broken down or in transit across the US twice as long as I actually owned it. I don't want to give up on the Spyder as I like it but they really need to get to the root of the electrical/electronics problems to get it sorted out. It's like the old "little girl with the curl". When she was good, she was very good but when she was bad she was terrible.

  5. #5
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    I see you mentioned that the battery connections look good.

    It is looking like the dealer needs to start a case with BRP.

    I am a "trust but verify" type of person. I would suggest also talking with BRP on your own behalf. Here is a direct link:

    brp.care@brp.com

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium). 6 Spyders, 11 years, 167,000 miles


  6. #6
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    I feel your pain ..... on the Batt. connections thing ... I have Always added STAR washers to every small battery .... I have never had a loose connection .... There are knowledgeable Techs and there are the others kind .... I would try another Dealer .... good luck .... Mike

  7. #7
    Active Member Trapdoor's Avatar
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    P0562 - System Voltage Low. Steps you can do is to check for blown fuse, load test the battery, check voltage output of voltage regulator (13 - 14.7 volts), check connection on the voltage regulator, check for corrosion and loose connection to the battery posts and the same for the ground connection to the vehicle frame. Based on my past experience, I would first check the ground connection to the vehicle frame.

  8. #8
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    I have a 2014 RTS 1330 that had check engine light on due to code P 0172. In shop 5 times, changed purge valve, fuel pump/regulator, throttle bodies, injectors to no avail. They’d repair then code would re-appear 200-300 miles later. Finally BRP assisted dealer tech and they found valve timing error. Required fixtures from the factory to repair - but now 3000 miles later no further issues. There was a BRP Case filed so you might mention to your dealer as a possibility. I believe there have been several other cases of this fault. Good luck. Make certain BRP Technical is involved it certainly helps.

  9. #9
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    It only has 1500 miles on it I be pissed. Now I been really happier with my 14 Spyder and up to 34k now on it. With all those issue it better get fixed or hand me a keys to a new Spyder.

  10. #10
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    As others have said, IMO, it's time to get a case opened by BRP on your F3. Your best approach, primarily to show BRP that you are working within their sometimes shaky system, is to ask your dealership to ask BRP to open a case on the problem. The dealership should do so without complaint since they have not solved the problem despite multiple attempts. If the dealership is unwilling to ask BRP to open a case, ask them to give you the exact reason why they will not do so, preferably in writing. Then take all the detailed information you have and contact BRPCare as ARtraveler noted. Were I in your boots I would title subject of your message "Dealership Refusal to Open Maintenance Case on (year) F3 (VIN)."
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
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  11. #11
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    I'm willing to bet you simply have a bad battery. When problems seem so large its usually something simple. My Spyder had to have its battery replaced at 1k miles because it had an LED kit linked to the brakes and when at the dealer i'm sure a lot of people entertained themselves with it and killed the battery. You said yours was a demo so you never know how many times they have jump started it from sporadic use. Low voltage or weak battery cells can wreak havoc on an electrical system.

  12. #12
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    There is a reflash for the P0172.... the dealer should know that!

  13. #13
    Active Member Ex Winger's Avatar
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    You have a lot more patience than me.After that many issues I think it would be a pile of ashes.After so many try's and still not fixed they should replace it.These are not cheap toys

  14. #14
    Active Member Doug's Avatar
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    What year and model of F3?

  15. #15
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    Everything is all better now. It was a 2019 F3T. I found what I think was the problem and got it started today. Finally cleared all the codes and drove it directly to the nearest Can-Am dealer and traded it in on a new 2020 RT. The original dealer who I bought the F3 from couldn't get it into service until the seventh of July. That was unacceptable so I started tearing it apart this morning. I believe the problem was on the left side power distribution/fuse box. There is a heavy cable that comes from the battery and splits to each of the boxes. The one on the left supplied power to most of the modules that were reporting problems. When I removed the back cover from the box, I found the bolt that connects the cable into the box was not very tight. I tightened the you know what out of it and tried to start the Spyder. It started right up and showed no active codes. After a couple of starts, the check engine light went out. I put on my gear, headed to a different dealer and never looked back as I pulled out of the parking lot in my new RT. The F3 problem is either fixed or going to be someone else's nightmare.

    As to the P0172 code, that was not present in this round of problems and yes, the service update was done during the last purge valve replacement. Many thanks for all of your suggestions on what to look for. I am going to buy a bucket of star washers and put them on all of the bolted connections in the new RT. It just makes sense and is good practice to use star washers to assure good current paths in electrical connections.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Good for you!!! Happy trails

  17. #17
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    I have a 2018 f3s bought new in may 1999 i
    Now have flawless.19xxx miles

  18. #18
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Rewarding poor product manufacture by buying another one is perverse - but lots of folks seem to do it round here. It's you money so what the heck.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

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