Canisterectomy

[Some Guy]

I HAD the heavy gas smell / vapor problem. Not just the odor of gasoline, but vapor strong enough to start a gag reflex. Also, when I would fill up the Spyder ( a new 2008 SE5 ) when the light came on, it would only take about 3.5 gallons, but the top bar and triangle never darkened. There would be at least one episode of gasoline vapors in every ride.

All that stopped around 2,650 miles a couple of months ago. No gas vapors. It now takes 4.5 to 5+ gallons at fill-up when the light comes on. All the bars are dark on the indicator.

That exact thing happened to me. No more gas smell...ever.

[Latemarch]

{Snip}
In another posting, Scotty mentioned that it sounded like the Purge Valve could have been stuck and was now unstuck. I should have asked at the time, but since everything was fine, I didn't - but, where can I find out more on how the purge valve and evaporation canister work? I get the premise, but not the mechanics.

Thanks

Tom

Spyder stopped. Power off. Purge solinoid closed.
Vapors and air from the tank flow out the vent hose and into the evap canister where the vapors are absorbed by the activated charcoal in the canister. The air, minus the gasoline vapors exits via the small curved vent hose on the top of the canister.

Spyder started. Power on.
The purge solinoid is controlled by the ECU. It will open the purge valve anytime a rich condition is allowable. Startup with a cold engine is typically a good time for a rich condition so the solinoid will open. This allows the vacume from the throttle body to draw air thru the short curved hose and into the canister and draw out the gasoline vapors from the charcoal and burn them in the engine.
Once the engine warms up and typically in a closed loop control circuit the solinoid will close. It will again open whenever a rich condition will not adversely affect emissions. So it will open and close at various times during a ride.

Clear as mud?

[Dragonrider]

Yep, got all that. Now it pull nothing, and any fumes are vented to the rear of the Spyder. BTW, the cold engine rough idle is now gone too.. Go figure.

[Firefly]

Here is my 'Canisterectomy'.

Was a bit surprized to notice that my stock fuel filter hose has 2 different clamp styles on it - I've been told 'normal' worm-type hose clamps shouldn't be used for fuel lines.

Seems to run fine.

Here are the pics.

[Firefly]

NOTE:

I just found out the Purge Solenoid needs to be left in place--- otherwise you get a check-engine light......

All is good now----

[NancysToy]

Here is my 'Canisterectomy'.

Was a bit surprized to notice that my stock fuel filter hose has 2 different clamp styles on it - I've been told 'normal' worm-type hose clamps shouldn't be used for fuel lines.

Seems to run fine.

Here are the pics.

Someone (dealer?) has apparently replaced one of your fuel hose clamps in the past. Our filter has Oetiker clamps on both sides, as do the illustrations in the service manual and parts fiche. The service manual cautions against use of anything but the proper (OEM) type of Oetiker clamp, and the fuel filter kit even comes with two new Oetiker clamps. I have never found the worm clamps in the proper size to be an issue, but Oetikers are a sure thing when properly installed, and will not loosen like a worm clamp, or cut into the hose. I'd get it replaced as soon as possible. If there ever were an issue of some sort, they could point a finger at this...and deny that they had installed it.

PS - This could explain why your fuel hose was so short and so close to the head. Perhaps they remove a bit after they found it loose.

[Firefly]

Someone (dealer?) has apparently replaced one of your fuel hose clamps in the past. Our filter has Oetiker clamps on both sides, as do the illustrations in the service manual and parts fiche. The service manual cautions against use of anything but the proper (OEM) type of Oetiker clamp, and the fuel filter kit even comes with two new Oetiker clamps. I have never found the worm clamps in the proper size to be an issue, but Oetikers are a sure thing when properly installed, and will not loosen like a worm clamp, or cut into the hose. I'd get it replaced as soon as possible. If there ever were an issue of some sort, they could point a finger at this...and deny that they had installed it.

PS - This could explain why your fuel hose was so short and so close to the head. Perhaps they remove a bit after they found it loose.

Yeah-- I don't know why in the heck it's like that-----sure as heck wasn't me! I'm sure with my other mods they would blame me for it------ so yes--- I better get it changed.

[Latemarch]

Yeah-- I don't know why in the heck it's like that-----sure as heck wasn't me! I'm sure with my other mods they would blame me for it------ so yes--- I better get it changed.

I've actually mulling over whether to get an Oetiker kit. If I do much more hose work it just might pay for itself.

And it'll keep em guessing as to whether or not they were the ones that made that modification.

[Firefly]

I've actually mulling over whether to get an Oetiker kit. If I do much more hose work it just might pay for itself.

And it'll keep em guessing as to whether or not they were the ones that made that modification.

I just bought the clamps at Pep-Boys near the fuel line that said 'Fuel Line' clamps. They are different than the worm-gear clamps. They just have a solid clamp ring - and a screw that you tighten.

[NancysToy]

I just bought the clamps at Pep-Boys near the fuel line that said 'Fuel Line' clamps. They are different than the worm-gear clamps. They just have a solid clamp ring - and a screw that you tighten.

I ordered an Oetiker clamp kit. When it gets here, we can install the correct type of clamp.

[sylblk]

recommend against. if the evap system on the spyder is anything like automotive systems, when the engine control module controls the purge solenoid, it is expecting a richer report from the o2 sensor. not noting one it will eventually flag a code and check engine light. is the smell there only when tank is full? if not, liquid overflow is not the problem. remove the plastics and sniff around... gas smell is very traceable. if there is a liquid seapege you will see the stains.

[Firefly]

recommend against. if the evap system on the spyder is anything like automotive systems, when the engine control module controls the purge solenoid, it is expecting a richer report from the o2 sensor. not noting one it will eventually flag a code and check engine light. is the smell there only when tank is full? if not, liquid overflow is not the problem. remove the plastics and sniff around... gas smell is very traceable. if there is a liquid seapege you will see the stains.

I'm running the O2 mod from Evoluzione ---- so this is a non-issue for me. The only code I got is when I removed the purge valve--- so I put it back in-- but not connected to anything.

Seems like the evap deal is just there to keep the tree-huggers happy. Stockpiling gas fumes for future use sounds pretty dumb to me - and I really think this area is where the fires are starting---

I never topped-off my tank--- so gas should not have been leaking into the evap can--- but obviously it has.

[Latemarch]

I ordered an Oetiker clamp kit. When it gets here, we can install the correct type of clamp.

What did you order, from where and how much!

This is the one I found.
http://www.sealfast.com/f_oetiker_service.html

[Latemarch]

recommend against. if the evap system on the spyder is anything like automotive systems, when the engine control module controls the purge solenoid, it is expecting a richer report from the o2 sensor. not noting one it will eventually flag a code and check engine light. is the smell there only when tank is full? if not, liquid overflow is not the problem. remove the plastics and sniff around... gas smell is very traceable. if there is a liquid seapege you will see the stains.

The Spyder system is nothing like on most cars. It is a very rudimentary system without all the self test and pressure checks typical of most cars.

Been running for a while now without the canister and no error codes yet.

[NancysToy]

What did you order, from where and how much!

This is the one I found.
http://www.sealfast.com/f_oetiker_service.html

The two-eared standard clamps in the kit you found are not really a suitable substitute, especially for fuel lines. They do not meet the BRP spec. I ordered a stepless one-ear clamp kit (Oetiker 18500060) from Drillspot.com. Have not received it yet, but did get shipping notice. Fastenal and some other possible suppliers did not have them in stock. Grainger lists them, but had none locally and had a wait time of several weeks.

[WaltH]

The Spyder system is nothing like on most cars. It is a very rudimentary system without all the self test and pressure checks typical of most cars.

Been running for a while now without the canister and no error codes yet.

I like the idea of taking out the canister, however, if there is a fire, will BRP claim removing the canister caused the fire? What other warranty issues could they create from this. I must be getting a little cynical.

[NancysToy]

The two-eared standard clamps in the kit you found are not really a suitable substitute, especially for fuel lines. They do not meet the BRP spec. I ordered a stepless one-ear clamp kit (Oetiker 18500060) from Drillspot.com. Have not received it yet, but did get shipping notice. Fastenal and some other possible suppliers did not have them in stock. Grainger lists them, but had none locally and had a wait time of several weeks.

Got the clamp kit today from the UPS man. That was a surprise, since I ordered Sunday, and got shipping confirmation just yesterday. Can't beat two day service! The box was marked and invoiced from Grainger, which surprised me since their site had listed 3 week delivery. I wonder if it was drop shipped, or id Drillspot.com is a subsidiary. Can't beat vendor service like that, no matter what.

I feel more secure in removing any hose that is necessary now, even though I may need to buy some small 3/8" clamps, which were not available in any kit. I may get some large ones, too, for things like CV jointand BMW driveshaft boots. BTW, BRP sells the clamps (and pliers) but oddly enough has several part numbers for each size hose. I wonder if some of theirs are the wider varieties. I will be sure to match up any I replace.

[BeRight]

I looked over my stock 2003 Yamaha FZ1 and it does not have an evap can. After researching on the internet the evap can is on California 2003 Yamaha FZ1s only. Yes, I do have a hose that sticks out of the bottom of my stock bike.

So, I guess either BRP had to have evap can to meet emissions standards or decided to just make them all the same, instead of unique ones for California-unless Maryland and the rest of USA changed their standards to match California since 2003.

[Cliff-Co.]

I ordered an Oetiker clamp kit. When it gets here, we can install the correct type of clamp.

most auto parts sell fuel injector hose, & a injector hose (worm-type) clamp, are they acceptable ???

[Firefly]

most auto parts sell fuel injector hose, & a injector hose (worm-type) clamp, are they acceptable ???

I bought 1/4" fuel line and they had clamps nearby that clearly said FUEL line clamps. They are not quite like the worm-gear ones--- but look similar.

Here is what they look like:

http://www.autobarn.net/iddifuincl.html

I bought 4 feet of fuel line - which was just about right for what I did--- maybe cut off 6-8".

[NancysToy]

most auto parts sell fuel injector hose, & a injector hose (worm-type) clamp, are they acceptable ???

Not according to BRP......of course.

[saint999]

Mean no offense with this as I know all bikers like to be resourceful and I am the same but beginning to wonder here.
Why would I or anyone have to do mods to a brand new bike to fix manufactures problems. So this 28K bike I bought can either cause 3rd degree burns to my right leg, or torch my butt for life at any minute? Has anyone actually taken this further then BRP would like? I have purchased two other brand new bikes in the last year besides this one, including a Gold Wing and have none of these issues. I am having the gas smell out of my 2012 RT Limited so bad my garage reeks.
Are you guys seriously just fixing their manufacturing issues and risking voiding your warranty with nothing else done with BRP?

Let me add the drivebelt tension issue that vibrates you like crazy....another flaw?

[WaltH]

Mean no offense with this as I know all bikers like to be resourceful and I am the same but beginning to wonder here.
Why would I or anyone have to do mods to a brand new bike to fix manufactures problems. So this 28K bike I bought can either cause 3rd degree burns to my right leg, or torch my butt for life at any minute? Has anyone actually taken this further then BRP would like? I have purchased two other brand new bikes in the last year besides this one, including a Gold Wing and have none of these issues. I am having the gas smell out of my 2012 RT Limited so bad my garage reeks.
Are you guys seriously just fixing their manufacturing issues and risking voiding your warranty with nothing else done with BRP?

Let me add the drivebelt tension issue that vibrates you like crazy....another flaw?

I don't think there have been any reports on Spyderlovers concerning fires in a RT. The modification BRP made in 2009 seems to be successful. I don't think you have much to worry about with the evaporative canister on your RT. I would look into the gas smell. This is not normal. There are several possible causes for this. See your dealer. In the past four years, BRP has corrected several important design flaws so your RT has the benefit of this progression.

My 2008 GS burned to the ground, so I did a canisterectomy on my 2009 GS. I did not do a canisterecotmy on my 2011 RT. I am comfortable with this. I have never had a gas smell, even on my 2008 GS.

[saint999]

I don't think there have been any reports on Spyderlovers concerning fires in a RT. The modification BRP made in 2009 seems to be successful. I don't think you have much to worry about with the evaporative canister on your RT. I would look into the gas smell. This is not normal. There are several possible causes for this. See your dealer. In the past four years, BRP has corrected several important design flaws so your RT has the benefit of this progression.

My 2008 GS burned to the ground, so I did a canisterectomy on my 2009 GS. I did not do a canisterecotmy on my 2011 RT. I am comfortable with this. I have never had a gas smell, even on my 2008 GS.

The Gas smell is really bad when its warm outside and I did notice after riding this last night it went away after about an hour of cooling down. Does that give you any ideas as to what it may be? I am thinking the evap canister is still an issue but maybe wrong. I am going to ask the dealer to look it over but think they will find nothing wrong.

[Tierhog]

I have a 2008 GS. No smell, never overfill. I have the skins off all the time. My only complaint is the blowby.. If I can't Diagnose, it's getting flatbedded to the dealer

I don't mess with gas or wheel bearings lol. I'll do everything else myself.