Q5 Mounting Direction

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Peter, in my posts above I only considered the TIRES, but after reading your comment post I could see where a battery and/or the connection could be the issue. Spyders seem to need higher Battery power output to satisfy the needs of those systems ...... Thanks ..... Mike

[Wahrsuul]

The only other thing we did while waiting for the tires to be mounted was to remove the GPS mount from the handlebars. I never had the GPS and don't know which model it is anyway so I got tired of looking at that mount.

We did have to pull off 2 side panels to trace and pull the wires. Anyone know where I can get the plastic cover for the hole?

The battery was replaced a while ago, 4-5 months at least.

I recall every time I got tires for one of the bikes, everyone always said to go easy for at least 50-100 miles to break them in. As the rear seems to have settled down, this might be the case. Got to do the shopping today so no riding, but hoping the rest of the week looks good.

It could also be me - I seem to be the "odd man out" quite often with things like this. But I will check the wires, no telling what we might have hit while pulling the GPS cable out. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Peter Aawen]

Just another thought Wahrsuul, something that might help pin-point any problem - do you ever notice your steering getting heavy while you're moving??

[Wahrsuul]

Yes, I've thought the steering seemed heavy a few times even with the old tires. But since I have nothing to compare it to I figured it was just me.

I rode in this morning and hit the "S" curves and on ramps pretty hard. Nanny got me a couple times, but the tires seems to be doing better. The rear isn't sliding and doesn't seem prone to spin off the line. (wish I'd gotten the manual trans) On the fronts, it almost felt like the tires were trying to "fold under" in really hard cornering. Made it hard to hold a line.

Also, maybe it's just me, but it seems the tryke rides a bit higher. Also, what does the 205/55 rear do for the speedo? I hit... I was very quick on the on ramp and just wondered how accurate.

[Steve W.]

Also, what does the 205/55 rear do for the speedo? I hit... I was very quick on the on ramp and just wondered how accurate.

I just installed a 205/65 rear. Last weekend I took it out and found that the speed displayed was within 1 MPH of the speed shown on the GPS. With the cruise control locked on 70 MPH (bike), the GPS display would bounce a bit between 69 and 70 MPH.

I have not done the math, but your 205/55 would be just a bit shorter, so will turn faster and show a slightly higher speed. It's possible that 70 MPH displayed on your speedometer might be 67 or 68 MPH on the GPS.

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[Peter Aawen]

Yes, I've thought the steering seemed heavy a few times even with the old tires. But since I have nothing to compare it to I figured it was just me.

I rode in this morning and hit the "S" curves and on ramps pretty hard. Nanny got me a couple times, but the tires seems to be doing better. The rear isn't sliding and doesn't seem prone to spin off the line. (wish I'd gotten the manual trans) On the fronts, it almost felt like the tires were trying to "fold under" in really hard cornering. Made it hard to hold a line.

Also, maybe it's just me, but it seems the tryke rides a bit higher. Also, what does the 205/55 rear do for the speedo? I hit... I was very quick on the on ramp and just wondered how accurate.

Firstly, you DID get the manual trans, doesn't matter if it's an SM or an SE, these 2014 & on Spyders all come with the same 6 speed manual trans, it's just that if you got an SE you also got a smarter clutch & some high tech/much faster flappy paddle initiated shifting with some computer controlled 'fail-safes' built in!

However, the 'steering seemed heavy a few times' thing does sorta sound like you might have a battery/charge problem or a problem with the DPS &/or steering torque/angle sensor - the DPS is REALLY power hungry, so a poor earth or dodgy/die-ing battery can mean the electric steering assist cuts out as its power demand increases & exceeds the available limit, then cuts back in as the demand drops & there's enough juice to run it at the lesser load, with your steering becoming noticeably heavier every time it cuts out & lighter as it cuts back in.... If it's actually just the steering torque/angle sensor that's the one doing that or if it's just that getting tired, then you can get the same result.... And running a slightly wider tire (like 175/55's) up front than you used to WILL be putting a little more of a load on the DPS too, so that might be increasing what used to be an occasional minor problem into a more often felt bigger problem!!

As for the front tires feeling as tho they are 'folding under', bearing in mind that it's extremely difficult 'diagnosing' this sorta stuff 'over the internet' like this, and even harder explaining the complexities of it all without writing an entire thesis... While what you're feeling could well be something that a poor power supply &/or dodgy DPS or steering torque/angle sensor might make worse; it could also be just that the former tires you had on simply started sliding a little bit at that stage rather than gripping quite so much (wider tires too!) So instead of getting 'understeer' that you now notice, maybe you just didn't notice it before cos the fronts were sliding juuuust a little instead.... If your former tires were the OE spec Kendas then that will almost certainly have something to do with it!! OR, it could be that now you've got 'better' tires, you are pushing just a little harder/going just a little faster & the tires actually ARE 'folding under' a bit more than they used to (wider tires will also flex a little more too) - but the Nanny is almost certainly gonna jump in WELL BEFORE that becomes an issue that the Spyder/Nanny can't handle! It might help to reduce that if you brace hard with your outside foot; get all your weight across the seat & down low on the inside (kiss your wrist on the inside handlebar!); and only PULL on the inside grip when cornering - pushing on the outside grip might 'feel' a little better at low speeds, but it's transferring weight out onto the wrong side of the bike, doing it up high where it exerts a LOT of leverage, and the faster you go the greater the impact of that leverage on the outside bar so the more it increases the Spyder's tendency to body roll towards the outside, actually making it feel even more like the Spyder is trying to throw you off onto the outside of the corner! And all that 'up high leverage' also puts more force onto the outside wheel, making the 'lean out' effect AND the 'tire rolling under' feel even worse! So get your weight In & Down, & PULL on the Inside grip to reduce that feel!!

Then again, if you've been running the tires on your Spyder even just a little (technically) over-inflated (ie, very likely anything much more than 16-18 psi up front in an auto tire) then it could just be that you've become used to the 'feel' of the (supposedly) 'more direct steering' that imparts, except it's not actually 'more direct' so much as 'easier turning' because there's less grip and you've actually been reducing the tire's cornering grip even more by lifting the inner edge of the tread in the contact patch area right off the road surface & possibly even causing that 'Kenda slide' with the 'better' auto tires despite their potential for better traction if run at a bit lower pressure because more of the tread/contact patch would actually remain ON the road surface during cornering! Even for drivers who are very practiced and well trained at 'feeling' all these little variations in ride & handling etc and reporting the slightest little change back to the boffins, then suggest possible causes, recommend changes/improvements etc, it's very easy to confuse your 'feel' & the 'bum dyno', which is why we make so much use of all the electronics & hi-speed cameras & other hi-techery stuff whilever we're testing tires these days!

Buut still, there IS a good chance that at your new rear tire actually IS a little larger in rolling dia than the OE spec Kenda (which are a fairly small tire for their nominal size anyway!) so that your Speedo is probably a little more accurate now than it used to be - which means that NOW, when your speedo SAYS you're doing 60mph, you are probably doing something pretty close to that, maybe 57-58 mph-ish; where-as before, when you were still on the Kenda, if your speedo said you were doing 60, you weren't, you were probably only doing something closer to 54 or 55 mph!! So now, you may well be going 5 or so mph faster than before, and feeling the difference!!

But I still think it's pretty likely you've got a battery/charging issue &/or a DPS/Steering torque sensor issue.... maybe that's ALL the problem is, or maybe it's just one part of all those things combined giving you 'the perfect storm' for having the issues you are when others haven't?!

Over to you...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

... Peter, the Spyder community should give you some kind of Award ..... because you are willing to take the time to explain in Infinite detail about a subject you are commenting on ...... I know stuff but only use two fingers ..... I would like to comment on two things you just posted ..... imho for the weight of the Spyder ..... finely calibrated equipment could tell you what Effect a WIDER tire will have .... But most will only notice a difference in A. turning while not moving and B. the possibility of Aqua-planing ...... and I feel your Speed with different size tires are over-stated .... almost everyone here who has switched to 215/60-15 Auto tires have said the change was 2 MPH higher, than OEM Kenda's .... which the actual speedo reading will almost perfect 60 = 60 ..... unlike the Kenda's where 60 = 57/8 mph ...... just my thoughts on this ..... Thanks again for what you do ..... Mike

[EdMat]

I want to thank everyone that has responded to this thread. Little did I know it would morph into so much useful information.

Have only mounted the rear tire so far. I thought the ride was pretty good before, I was wrong. The rear is now smooth as silk, stays planted, and has no balance weights. Waiting on the fronts.

[Steve W.]

... I feel your Speed with different size tires are over-stated .... almost everyone here who has switched to 215/60-15 Auto tires have said the change was 2 MPH higher, than OEM Kenda's .... which the actual speedo reading will almost perfect 60 = 60 ..... unlike the Kenda's where 60 = 57/8 mph ...... just my thoughts on this ..... Thanks again for what you do ..... Mike

I never did get a chance to verify speedo (in-)accuracy with the stock Kenda, but with the new Vred Q5 205/65-15 mounted and the cruise control locked at an indicated 70 MPH, the GPS kind of bounces between 69 and 70 MPH. That's close enough for me.

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[Peter Aawen]

... Peter, the Spyder community should give you some kind of Award ..... because you are willing to take the time to explain in Infinite detail about a subject you are commenting on ...... I know stuff but only use two fingers ..... I would like to comment on two things you just posted ..... imho for the weight of the Spyder ..... finely calibrated equipment could tell you what Effect a WIDER tire will have .... But most will only notice a difference in A. turning while not moving and B. the possibility of Aqua-planing ...... and I feel your Speed with different size tires are over-stated .... almost everyone here who has switched to 215/60-15 Auto tires have said the change was 2 MPH higher, than OEM Kenda's .... which the actual speedo reading will almost perfect 60 = 60 ..... unlike the Kenda's where 60 = 57/8 mph ...... just my thoughts on this ..... Thanks again for what you do ..... Mike

Thanks for the kind words BK.

As for the speed thing, your comment prompted me to look again at what I'd written, & you are definitely right!! I'd put 67-68 instead of 57-58, so it's now corrected!! The 205/55's are likely to be bigger than (& therefore make the speedo more accurate than) the Kendas, but they're not quite as big as the 215/60's that, as you mention, should usually correct the speedo to read pretty close to spot on!

With the impact of the slightly wider tires, I reckon that even tho most won't be able to detect the difference as you say, but if the Spyder already has an ailing DPS for whatever reason, there's a good chance it'll notice & complain even more about the extra load, as small as it is! And that's still the prime suspect in my list of probable/possible causes for Wahrsuul's completely different experience to everyone else who's fitted these tires!

[Wahrsuul]

Sorry, messed up the rear size - it's a 205/60-15. The fronts are the 55s. I went with those sizes on the recommendations of BK and a few others.

Tires seemed better this morning, still 18psi in all three, so testing continues. And I don't think I've noticed the hard steering issue since swapping out the battery. Since I have nothing but a gravel driveway and aluminum cover/carport to work in, major tracing of cable has to wait til my brother has room in his shop.

Yeah, I know it's a "manual" trans by definition, but I'd rather have the clutch I think.