Billybovine suggested that the BRP switch might be a single pole and the one that came with the unit might be a double. Is there a way to find out which is what? I was able to get the BRP switch to work but it only has one level of heat and the light is not on. I purposefully didn't connect it because I thought it may be the problem. I think there was to much power going to it when it is only for the light. Going to tap the parking light and see if that makes a difference.
Billybovine suggested that the BRP switch might be a single pole and the one that came with the unit might be a double. Is there a way to find out which is what? I was able to get the BRP switch to work but it only has one level of heat and the light is not on. I purposefully didn't connect it because I thought it may be the problem. I think there was to much power going to it when it is only for the light. Going to tap the parking light and see if that makes a difference.
It's exactly because of these questions that I'm wanting you to sketch out the wiring harness. The BRP switch is a single pole double throw. I cannot tell from what you have provided so far what the supplied switch is. I'm sure it's a double throw but whether it's a single pole or double pole I can't tell. Please, I need all the basic information about the heater pad in order to figure it all out. I'm sorry to be blunt but your approach so far has been kind of like trying to find a passage in a book while ignoring the table of contents. It just does not work.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
You are getting good advice from IdahoMtnSypder and billybovine.
However, without a multi-meter, it is difficult to advise remotely.
What can you provide regarding post #25?
Photo 9 of 13 in post 13 shows the two heaters, which are two wire.
This indicates that either the heaters are single level (no hi-lo) or, as suggested by post 17, must be wired series or parallel.
The trick is doing that with the stock switch.
IdahoMtnSpyder has asked on the forum for a schematic, which may help.
In the meantime, how important are two heat levels for you?
That is part of the problem. The harness is all sealed up inside a thick black cover. You can't see where the wires go or what they connect to. The heating unit is a Hi / Low kind of thing so I assume that is where the relay comes in.
From what I can see it is a simple Red and Black coming from the pads. They go into the relay and are joined by a yellow wire. From my above pic starting at the top it goes...
3 blacks
1 red
1 yellow
1 red
But when they come out of the harness to the switch they are...
1 red
1 black
1 yellow
1 white
I wrote to the seller and asked for another harness being that I don't trust this one.
That is part of the problem. The harness is all sealed up inside a thick black cover. You can't see where the wires go or what they connect to. The heating unit is a Hi / Low kind of thing so I assume that is where the relay comes in.
From what I can see it is a simple Red and Black coming from the pads. They go into the relay and are joined by a yellow wire. From my above pic starting at the top it goes...
3 blacks
1 red
1 yellow
1 red
But when they come out of the harness to the switch they are...
1 red
1 black
1 yellow
1 white
I wrote to the seller and asked for another harness being that I don't trust this one.
You do have something like a black and a red wire that has either a stripped end, like the yellow one, or a spade connector on the end, right? The red one with the fuse in it, right? You have to have those to get power and ground from the bike to the pads.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
Listing colors without a schematic may not help.
Testing resistance values might help, but requires a VOM.
IdahoMtnSpyder refered to a single pole, double throw switch (with or without a center off).
A SPDT switch has 3 terminals.
One is energized from the battery, directly or through a relay.
Single pole is making or breaking one wire (double pole is making or breaking two wires, simultaneously). See attached sketch. Need something like this for your heaters.
Double throw is making one or the other connections.
Bottom line is that a wiring diagram from the heater manufacturer could solve the problem, with a schematic of the Spyder switch.
So I have been thinking. That could be dangerous!!
The relay is only acting as simple on off for the main power to the pads. That's why the light gage yellow wire is to be connected to a key switched circuit. It's the trigger voltage. So the battery is not drained if the switch is left on.
The red wire with the fuse in it is to be connected to a power source (battery) able to supply enough power for the pads. Does not need to be switched. The relay will handle that.
There must be a ground wire connected to chassis ground. Likely a black one.
There are 4 wires on the switch. One of them has to be a ground to make the high and low indicator lights on the switch work. So that leaves only 3 wires to operate the heating pads. Hey is that not the same as the BRP switch. So to make this all work there may be diodes in the heating pad harness. To stop back feed from series low heat mode to parallel high heat mode. So take some pictures of the heating pad switch terminals. Test the switch if you can to see which terminals connect with the switch. If it is a SPDT switch. The BRP switch can be made to work. If it is a different configuration. I am sure a Caring style switch can be found that will work and fit nice in the consol.
Mac seems very confused based on his other thread. So just to maybe clear up some things. Attached 4 pictures.
1. The switch used for the BRP grip heater diagram.
2. Carling switch pinout for a 8 pin base.
3. The switch used for the BRP grip heater light circuit.
4. The grip heater wiring diagram.
So using the Carling numbering system. The switch backlighting is pin 7 and 8. The common power in is pin 2. The switched pins are 1 and 3. That is confirmed on the wiring diagram. BRP uses the same pin numbering system.
The problem is that BRP uses a grip heater with 2 different circuits. So a simple circuit with a SPDT switch. The seat heaters only have one circuit and use a in series or parallel config to control high or low heat. So we need to find a Carling style switch to replace the original switch.
I hate that I am so helpless now. A few year ago this would not have been so difficult. Once again I would like to express my thanks to all of you. That being said here is a pic of the BRP switch in its working state, one heat setting only. image.jpg
I wonder if the ground wire needs to be a chassis ground or does that matter? I read that the switch ground was for the switch light only. The ground for the heat pads is the battery ground I assume.
This pic is of the relay and I don't know what is going on in there. If the seller sends me another harness I can tear this one open and then we can see what is going on inside. image.jpg
This is the supplied switch but I can't tell what is what. image.jpg
I found one switch on Amazon but it is a spot as well. Which is what I have with the BRP switch I think. The didn't switches all have 7 pins.
There must be something going on in the harness because the white wire just comes out of nowhere. It's not on the relay so it must be coming out of the harness under all that bundled black mess. I assume that is where the diodes Billy mentioned might be.
I was able to get an old meter working but don't know what kind of numbers I am looking for. Would it help you all if I took readings from the switch?
I hate that I am so helpless now. A few year ago this would not have been so difficult. Once again I would like to express my thanks to all of you. That being said here is a pic of the BRP switch in its working state, one heat setting only. image.jpg
I wonder if the ground wire needs to be a chassis ground or does that matter? I read that the switch ground was for the switch light only. The ground for the heat pads is the battery ground I assume.
This pic is of the relay and I don't know what is going on in there. If the seller sends me another harness I can tear this one open and then we can see what is going on inside. image.jpg
This is the supplied switch but I can't tell what is what. image.jpg
I found one switch on Amazon but it is a spot as well. Which is what I have with the BRP switch I think. The didn't switches all have 7 pins.
There must be something going on in the harness because the white wire just comes out of nowhere. It's not on the relay so it must be coming out of the harness under all that bundled black mess. I assume that is where the diodes Billy mentioned might be.
I was able to get an old meter working but don't know what kind of numbers I am looking for. Would it help you all if I took readings from the switch?
In your first picture. The black wire is not doing anything. That terminal and the one beside it. Make the switch light up.
The second picture of the relay. All it is doing is turning on or off. It is a SPDT relay but as you mentioned earlier one terminal in not being used. So it is acting as only SPST. The thin yellow wire is the trigger for it and should be connected to a key switch circuit. Did you do that? Does the heating pad turn of with the key?
The third picture is the issue. We need to know what's going on in that switch. Right now we are guessing and you are getting confused by our guesses. Since there are high and low indicator lights on the heat pad switch. It needs a ground wire for the lights to work.
Just to double check.
The red wire in the pad harness with the fuse holder in it. Is connected to an unswitched power source like the battery + or jumper post +?
The black wire with the stripped wire, no connector, in the pad harness, is connected to chassis ground?
The thin yellow wire is connected to a switched by key circuit.
Red wire is connected to the + jumper post.
Black is connected to the - jumper post.
Yellow is connected to switched power. The power lead that was for the compressor being that I don't have one.
Heating pad does turn off with the key.
If I take a 12v power wire and add it to the No.1a pin I even get the lighted switch. All that is left is getting it to be two temperatures. It's 85 degrees outside right now so it is hard to tell when the seat is warming up. I will hook up the other switch and report back.
Do I possible need one of these? If there is no way to get what I have to work correctly. dpdt1.jpg
I suppose that will require taking the harness apart.
Perfect. That's very close. I am wondering which switch wire is constant power. I would assume it's the red. Then it is connected correctly by your pic and should work. But maybe it is not. Can you test that.
Do I possible need one of these? If there is no way to get what I have to work correctly. dpdt1.jpg
I suppose that will require taking the harness apart.
Have not got that far yet and there could be 10 different switches that look like that.
I'll sketch it out after I have it figured out for sure and get my afternoon nap out of the way! But basically we've been looking at this bass ackwards! The switch is switching the ground side of the pads, not the power side and the relay is switching between power and ground for one pad as you surmised earlier.
Your link to the Amazon ad was key. From there I found a diagram that I can modify to fit this situation.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
Red wire reads 12.78v. White and yellow show .003 when switch is in off position.
HI: they show Yellow at 4.54, Red at 12.74, and White at 12.74
LO: they show Yellow at 12.60, Red at 12.60, and White at 12.54
If I'm doing the whole meter thing right. Does that help any?
Well that confirms the red wire is the power feed to the switch. It's nice to confirm that. As for the backfeed voltages. So I am still left to understand why you don't have 2 heat level. It should be working except maybe backwards. High is low and low is high. If that's the case just switch the white and yellow wires.
If you look closely at the picture, especially the one on Amazon, you'll see a black wire with a stripped end. That goes to ground, preferably a good battery ground lead. The red is fused battery power. The yellow goes to switched power to light the switch.
When the switch is in HI position both heater pads connect to power and to ground because the relay coil is energized. Heater 2 receives power through the relay when its coil is energized. When the switch is in LO position the common ground from both pads is broken, the relay coil is not energized, and Heater 2 power end connects to ground putting the heaters in series. Note that the relay handles the power side of the heaters and the switch handles the ground side of the heaters.
The BRP switch can be used. The one big difference between it and the kit supplied switch is the BRP switch indicator light is on any time the ignition is on, just like the other dash switches. The kit switch has a two color LED or two LEDs to show when the switch is in HI or LO position. To use the BRP switch the indicator LED will need to connected to ground by a wire that is not in the heater kit.
Billy, I'll let you figure out which of the kit switch spades needs to go to which BRP switch terminal and where the best place will for Spyder to tap into main power, switched power, and ground. I need to get ready to leave home for a couple of weeks!
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
You may have missed some of the things Spyder Hawk told us. The relay has only 4 wires going to it. Your diagram has 5. The yellow switched source wire goes to the relay. Not the switch.
One of the wires going to the switch is a ground. The black one. As mentioned in a previous post.
If you read post 39. He has the power, switched power and ground connected to good locations.
You may have missed some of the things Spyder Hawk told us. The relay has only 4 wires going to it. Your diagram has 5. The yellow switched source wire goes to the relay. Not the switch.
In post 30 he says there are 3 blacks, two reds, and one yellow going to the relay. There is no way I can see how you can have Lo/Hi heat without using all 5 terminals of the relay. The wiring diagram I used to try to figure this out is in this installation instruction. It's for a similar kit but without the yellow switched wire. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...5-I7AWmvxTKYgf.
I give up! I don't have any more time to work on this. As far as not staying on when the ignition is turned off I believe his kit is intended for auto use with main power coming from a switched source. He used the word illumination for the yellow wire which indicates that wire connects to the car lights so the switch will be illuminated at night. I'm sure the switch has internally wired LEDs to indicate when the heater is on.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
I don't see where it could be connected to all 5. Unless it is done so inside the relay. The center pin is not used for some reason. The seller agreed to send me another harness and switch so when it gets here I'll be able to cut one open and then you all can see what is what. It all works the way it is just not dual heat. That and I want to make sure it is right because I don't want to become a ball of flame on the side of the road.
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Originally Posted by Spyder Hawk
