ATGATT on Spyder = PTGATT?

[UtahPete]

Same here, I dress the same as when I had my Goldwing too. ATGATT! YOU'RE STILL RIDING ON A SEAT WITH NO SEAT BELT AND IF YOU GET HIT - THE SAME CONSEQUENCES. WHERE THE GEAR !!!!!!!

Protective gear (other than a helmet) won't protect you from impact injuries in a collision.

[troop]

I tend to wear pants/jacket/gloves/helmet. In 95* +, I have also worn khaki shorts, short sleeves and no helmet. Riding on a open air vehicle is ALWAYS a risk. Some you control, most you don't. ATGATT/LGST, it's all about choice and chance.

[LifeLongRider]

Protective gear (other than a helmet) won't protect you from a collision.

You're right Pete, it won't protect you from a collision - BUT IT WILL HELP TO PROTECT YOU IN A COLLISION.

[UtahPete]

You're right Pete, it won't protect you from a collision - BUT IT WILL HELP TO PROTECT YOU IN A COLLISION.

I rephrased my statement to clarify that I don't believe protective gear, other than the helmet, is designed to protect from severe impact injury.

[iridenow]

There's some really incredible heat in the Phoenix area. I cannot handle wearing a jacket when it's this hot. I wear a long sleeve tshirt instead. I usually wear jeans instead of riding pants.

After the accident I had last time I was on a motorcycle, I am a very cautious rider. I give plenty of room to cars in front of me. I don't take chances. To me the ride is about getting home safe.

[Arion]

You might be at (very slightly) less risk of 'sliding' on a Spyder than you are when riding a 2-wheeled machine, but seriously, you should keep in mind the fact that there's Absolbloodylutely NO protective bodywork between you and any hazards out there that might injure you; which effectively means that the ONLY thing that actually stands any chance of protecting you in any way from that greater potential for harm than you'd experience if travelling in a cage in the event of something occurring that you cannot avoid or foresee is the protective gear you are wearing..... or is that only the gear you might be wearing? Or possibly it's the gear you should have been wearing? Or maybe that could end up being the gear that you really wish you had been wearing??

This Forum has recorded at least one event with a tragic outcome that MAY have had a completely and far less tragic outcome if only the person concerned had been wearing something just a little more protective than the comfortable & cool clothing they'd been wearing at the time..... And it was the completely unexpected slide that did the damage too!!

It might be bloody easy to have 20/20 hindsight & pontificate on all this; but is it really all that much harder to think ahead a tiny bit and dress to at least mitigate a little the potential for the injuries that you are very likely to suffer if, heaven forbid, something you don't expect or want to happen occurs and the very first thing to hit the hazard, the obstacle, the scenery, or the road surface is your basically un-protected skin!! Just remember that they call them 'accidents' for a reason - they aren't something you plan to happen, they're something you generally plan to avoid if at all possible! But they DO sometimes happen, and they almost invariably happen when you least expect it &/or are least prepared for it!!

So that's why I'm basically an ATGATT person, altho there might be the odd occasion where I make an informed decision to wear something a little less protective than the full on gear I usually wear - but even then, there's always a helmet, boots & gloves involved, and usually a fair bit of kevlar or similar material between me & any potential gravel rash, as well as at least some CE Armour protecting those limbs, joints, and other parts I feel pretty attached to keeping in working order!!

Of course, YMMV, and it is your ryde, your choice, buuut....

Well said Peter. Thankfully, I've only suffered three "unexpected departures" from the bike I was aboard, in just over 50 years of riding, and in each case the gear I was wearing took a more severe beating than I did. Even in the event when I landed on my left palm and suffered five breaks between wrist and shoulder, the gear did its job and protected other parts I have an attachment to.

It's rather easy to be cavalier about not having to wearing protective gear, until the unexpected occurs. I doubt whether anyone expects to have a crash, but they occur regularly. I suppose it comes down to having "been there, done that." I believe taking sensible steps to protect this aging body and its sundry essential parts is worth while.

And although the Spyder is inherently more stable than a two wheel, single track motorcycle, if something more substantial hits it or it hits something substantial, the pilot and craft will likely abruptly part ways and neither is likely to come to a halt without sailing through the air and sliding or tumbling upon landing. Perhaps that's why I've never understood the "I had to lay it down" approach to a crash situation.

Someone once said, "The great thing about physics is it's factual whether or not you believe it." If I may rephrase your final comment, to each his (or her) own. Oh, and may the Force be with us!

[UtahPete]

Well said Peter. Thankfully, I've only suffered three "unexpected departures," in roughly 50 years of riding, from the bike I was aboard and in each case the gear I was wearing took a more severe beating than I did. Even in the event when I landed on my left palm and suffered five breaks between wrist and shoulder, the gear did its job and protected other parts I have an attachment to.

It's rather easy to be cavalier about not having to wearing protective gear, until the unexpected occurs. I doubt very much whether anyone expects to have a crash, but they occur regularly. I suppose it all comes down to having "been there, done that." I believe taking sensible steps to protect this aging body and its sundry essential parts is worth while.

And although the Spyder is inherently more stable than a two wheel, single track motorcycle, if something more substantial hits it or it hits something substantial, the pilot and craft will likely abruptly part ways and neither is likely to come to a halt without sailing through the air and sliding or tumbling upon landing. Perhaps that's why I've never understood the "I had to lay it down" approach to a crash situation.

Someone once said, "The great thing about physics is its's factual whether or not you believe it." If I may rephrase your final comment, to each his (or her) own. Oh, and may the Force be with us!

We're discussing Spyder crashes. Have you had any?

In my 5 years on this forum, I'm aware of only one reported incident where a Spyder Ryder suffered fatal injuries and that was from not wearing a helmet.

Several have reported incidents where they sustained only minor injuries in a crash because the Spyder stayed upright and they stayed on the bike.

In the millions of road miles represented by this forum, I am not aware of ANY reported incidents involving a Spyder where protective riding gear (excluding a helmet) was a factor in reducing or avoiding serious injury.

But, I could be wrong about that. If I am, please reference the reported incident. Thank you.

[ARtraveler]

Another iteration of a subject discussed in the last month or so. A bit different though from the previous, but many of the same participants.

I will start with saying that I am a believer in ATGATT. And I will also say that I do not criticize any who want to do their own thing. Every time we get on a motorcycle, Spyder, or other motor vehicle, it is a calculated risk that we all will encounter.

I always drive like "they" are out to get me and "they" will not see me. Unfortunately, this assumption has turned out right several times. I have so far, avoided any trips to the hospital or worse. The difference in the previous discussion was about how to dress for the heat that many of us encounter. 100 degree riding is usually not everyone's most pleasurable experience. I have experienced that for the first time in the last year.

The things that we will not go without are simple. Helmet, gloves, boots, long legged jeans. The jacket part is where we beg to differ. We have everything from heavy textile, leather and mesh. Currently we have been caught wearing hi-viz long or short sleeve shirts. Have found a different type of mesh, and are going to give them a try when they arrive.

The biggest problem with a Spyder is not that you are going to tip over and do a "slide" ride, but most likely the damage will come from an ejection or from an impact with a solid object (car, truck, pole, big rock, etc.). This is the "calculated risk" that should be a concern.

Once again, every one has to make the calculated decision when they ride. We both still like riding, but are becoming more selective about where and with who. Happily, we are currently in motorcycle paradise. And we do ride a lot more now than we have ever done before. 10,000 miles on the clocks since Jan 1st this year.

I will finish with be safe out there.

[CopperSpyder]

We're discussing Spyder crashes. Have you had any?

In my 5 years on this forum, I'm aware of only one reported incident where a Spyder Ryder suffered fatal injuries and that was from not wearing a helmet.

Several have reported incidents where they sustained only minor injuries in a crash because the Spyder stayed upright and they stayed on the bike.

In the millions of road miles represented by this forum, I am not aware of ANY reported incidents involving a Spyder where protective riding gear (excluding a helmet) was a factor in reducing or avoiding serious injury.

But, I could be wrong about that. If I am, please reference the reported incident. Thank you.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...p?albumid=4938 I'll let you do your own search accidents have been reported here before just not a lot of them. Photos show how everything worked to save some flesh form the pavement.

[Stache]

We're discussing Spyder crashes. Have you had any?

In my 5 years on this forum, I'm aware of only one reported incident where a Spyder Ryder suffered fatal injuries and that was from not wearing a helmet.

Several have reported incidents where they sustained only minor injuries in a crash because the Spyder stayed upright and they stayed on the bike.

In the millions of road miles represented by this forum, I am not aware of ANY reported incidents involving a Spyder where protective riding gear (excluding a helmet) was a factor in reducing or avoiding serious injury.

But, I could be wrong about that. If I am, please reference the reported incident. Thank you.

We’re not discussing Spyder crashes, we’re discussing protective gear, and especially if there’s a need for gear. First, to each his/her own choice, your mileage may vary, and other assorted platitudes.

I see protective equipment like insurance. Where I live public liability insurance in mandatory, helmets are mandatory. I choose to carry collision and comprehensive coverage because, while I hope there won’t be a accident, and I REALLY hope I won’t be found at fault if there is one, in the event there is one I won’t find myself repairing my Spyder out of pocket.

I wear my mandatory helmet. I choose to wear heavy boots, chaps, leather jacket, gloves, because, while I hope there won’t be a accident, in the event there is one, I’m less likely to be seriously injured.

Anything I can reasonably do to improve my odds of getting home safe for supper with my family is worth doing. I choose to ride, knowing the risks. I also choose to do what I can to reduce those risks.

[Bike-O-Din]

I wear ATGATT because I do not trust others and most especially that "Murphy" person. But then again, I also am now wearing a mask in public. It may help, or it may not, but like ATGATT, it couldn't hurt!!

[UtahPete]

We’re not discussing Spyder crashes, we’re discussing protective gear, and especially if there’s a need for gear. First, to each his/her own choice, your mileage may vary, and other assorted platitudes.

I see protective equipment like insurance. Where I live public liability insurance in mandatory, helmets are mandatory. I choose to carry collision and comprehensive coverage because, while I hope there won’t be a accident, and I REALLY hope I won’t be found at fault if there is one, in the event there is one I won’t find myself repairing my Spyder out of pocket.

I wear my mandatory helmet. I choose to wear heavy boots, chaps, leather jacket, gloves, because, while I hope there won’t be a accident, in the event there is one, I’m less likely to be seriously injured.

Anything I can reasonably do to improve my odds of getting home safe for supper with my family is worth doing. I choose to ride, knowing the risks. I also choose to do what I can to reduce those risks.

This is another opinion based on a person's belief system, value system and risk tolerance. Which is fine, I encourage everyone to do what is right for them. But, what the OP is asking is whether or not the old dictum 'dress for the slide, not the ride' is just as valid for Spyders as it is two-wheelers.

I and several others, maintain that, based on observable statistics, laws of physics, limitations on 'protective gear', and reasonable deductions, the risk of road rash from a Spyder mishap is NOT worth the hassle, expense, discomfort of FULL protective gear ALL the time (ATGATT).

So far, nobody has disputed the FACTS, as I understand them, which are that NOBODY on this forum has reported an instance where ATGATT has saved them from incurring severe injury in a Spyder crash.

Except for the helmet, protective gear is intended to protect the SKIN from abrasion and minor impact injury, not protect the musculoskeletal system from injury in the instance of severe impact.

[UtahPete]

You're right Pete, it won't protect you from a collision - BUT IT WILL HELP TO PROTECT YOU IN A COLLISION.

HOW? Explain your theory.

[acdcking12]

I wear teashirts, shorts and running shoes when I ride the spyder. I want to be comfortable when it is hot. If it is cold out, Ill throw on a coat and gloves.

[UtahPete]

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...p?albumid=4938 I'll let you do your own search accidents have been reported here before just not a lot of them. Photos show how everything worked to save some flesh form the pavement.

Exactly. How about musculoskeletal injuries?

[johnsimion]

Lew, if they had hit you, how would safety gear have mitigated the injury, do you think?

As another ATGATT wearer, I'll answer that because I don't go out without Kevlar jeans with knee armor, a mesh jacket with shoulder, back and elbow armor, gloves and a full-face helmet. How would this help if I was hit? If I was hit, the most likely result is that I would be thrown from the Spyder where I might land on my knees, shoulder, back, elbow, head or chin. And, when I land, I might yet slide. I would prefer to have the armor absorb that impact rather than my body. I got my Spyder to enjoy, not to see how big my hospital bills could be or to end up as a vegetable. I think that's enough reason to wear ATGATT. Pete, you and I agree on many things. This is not one of them.

[UtahPete]

As another ATGATT wearer, I'll answer that because I don't go out without Kevlar jeans with knee armor, a mesh jacket with shoulder, back and elbow armor, gloves and a full-face helmet. How would this help if I was hit? If I was hit, the most likely result is that I would be thrown from the Spyder where I might land on my knees, shoulder, back, elbow, head or chin. And, when I land, I might yet slide. I would prefer to have the armor absorb that impact rather than my body. I got my Spyder to enjoy, not to see how big my hospital bills could be or to end up as a vegetable. I think that's enough reason to wear ATGATT. Pete, you and I agree on many things. This is not one of them.

Actually, we do agree, John; each person should do what they most feel comfortable with. We just evaluate risk differently.

What I appreciate about your response is that you explain the reasoning that goes into your decision.

[wyliec]

Exactly. How about musculoskeletal injuries?

I ended up with blood poisoning. If you don’t think that can kill you, think again. I crashed and ended up with a cut of my wrist; I was wearing a shirt. I cleaned and bandaged the area. The very next day we were playing poker, and someone noticed the red lines going up from my wrist; he said once those red lines hit your heart, you’ll die, from blood poisoning. I went to the ER, and found out he was right. I was treated and everything turned out okay. If I’d have been wearing a jacket, that may or may not have happened. The wrist is a musculoskeletal joint.

I was just answering your question; not trying to take the side of gearing up or not.

[UtahPete]

I ended up with blood poisoning. If you don’t think that can kill you, think again. I crashed and ended up with a cut of my wrist; I was wearing a shirt. I cleaned and bandaged the area. The very next day we were playing poker, and someone noticed the red lines going up from my wrist; he said once those red lines hit your heart, you’ll die, from blood poisoning. I went to the ER, and found out he was right. I was treated and everything turned out okay. If I’d have been wearing a jacket, that may or may not have happened. The wrist is a musculoskeletal joint.

I was just answering your question; not trying to take the side of gearing up or not.

That's an interesting anecdote. Can you describe the crash a little, to put things into context for us? Thanks.

[wyliec]

I don't consider it a slide, as much as a scrape, and I ended up in crush stone. The person I was riding with was on my left, and he took a right, and his back wheel hit my fork, if I remember right; I was on 2 wheels then, and I had extended forks. This was quite awhile ago. Even if you're on a spyder and come off, the same thing could happen.

Remember, I'm kept in business by people having accidents.

[UtahPete]

I don't consider it a slide, as much as a scrape. The person I was riding with was on my left, and he took a right, and his back wheel hit my fork, if I remember right; I was on 2 wheels then, and I had extended forks. This was quite awhile ago. Even if you're on a spyder and come off, the same thing could happen.

Remember, I'm kept in business by people having accidents.

Okay, that helps understand the scenario. Thanks.

[ARtraveler]

Been a good discussion. Over 200 people have looked at this one so far. (see the list if you care to scroll below this section).

[SpyderAnn01]

When I get in my car I don’t plan on wrecking but I still wear my seatbelt. Likewise on the Spyder, if you get in a wreck you better be dressed appropriately

[remus]

I live in Tucson AZ. temps now are typically 100+. I wear all the gear. here in arizona there is no requirement to wear any of the gear. but if you are injured in an accident and it goes to court the judge can and does adjust the settlement based on how injured you would have been had you been wearing gear. I think it's just better to not give any opponent ammunition to fight with.

[Ready2Retire]

I live in Tucson AZ. temps now are typically 100+. I wear all the gear. here in arizona there is no requirement to wear any of the gear. but if you are injured in an accident and it goes to court the judge can and does adjust the settlement based on how injured you would have been had you been wearing gear. I think it's just better to not give any opponent ammunition to fight with.

This is called "Modified Comparative Negligence" and is typically codified in your state statutes. If the judge or jury finds you were >50% responsible for your own injuries, your judgement could be reduced to zero.

John